Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I mention in film threads that I will only watch on disc because that’s the truth. Just as some mention they will watch via streaming. I’m only telling the truth.

I get it, unfortunately it has always been the case. I remember in 2006 when Cars came out (just one particular example) it was released on DVD only (no BD announcement) I said I will wait, i am not buying any DVD anymore, there was a lot of people took offence to that, some months later the war was over, and it was announce to come out on BD and I bought it then. For some reason some people get annoyed when others don't spend money the way they would, while at the same time pretending it is about that person being a fanboy.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

we were all kids and we all did that when I was a teen I used my old Commodore 64 screen connected to our old retired VCR so that I could watch TV in my room. It was not about presentation but it meant that I did not have to watch what my parents/sisters wanted to watch.

I used that old commodore 64 monitor because it was one of the cheapest and first available ways to watch component video out of an older SVHS machine I had...

I thank you for at least quoting what I've actually said in discussing my points. I have no problem with a spirited discussion in which I have the minority viewpoint. I further have no problem admitting when I'm proven wrong. That's what I think these threads are about. It's why I'm here.

...but there seems to be a mass delusional echo chamber going on here with multiple people so keen on being right, that they weaken their own points by wildly mischaracterizing what I've said, name calling and then making arguments that are even more speculative than what I have already admitted were my own EMPIRACAL observations.

I NEVER said that EVERYBODY is watching on their phones. I further clarified my original comments about the majority of consumers to indicate that I was talking about where the trends are going and where distributors are focusing that effort. It's all here in the last 2 pages. You responded as a person who actually read what I wrote. We agree on some points and I take your criticisms of what we disagree on seriously.

While I'm thankful to the person that linked to an actual data set, I am not convinced by an article that is almost 5 years old. When it comes to trends in technology that is a lifetime. In a COVID world, 2 year old info is wildly outdated.

Some here think that my view is skewed too heavily based on my small sample size. That may be a valid criticism - but to my thinking, not enough to invalidate my concerns about the data as presented. Furthermore, I haven't seen anything that shows, on the server side, what the content providers truly know about how things are being displayed on the client side. They know that they are putting out a 4K Atmos stream which both my HT and phone can output. Do they definitivley know which one I'm watching on?

I feel that a few here are so afraid that a company's catering to the majority necessarily means a race to the bottom....so much so that they are scared to admit who makes up that majority.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I used that old commodore 64 monitor because it was one of the cheapest and first available ways to watch component video out of an older SVHS machine I had...

I thank you for at least quoting what I've actually said in discussing my points. I have no problem with a spirited discussion in which I have the minority viewpoint. I further have no problem admitting when I'm proven wrong. That's what I think these threads are about. It's why I'm here.

...but there seems to be a mass delusional echo chamber going on here with multiple people so keen on being right, that they weaken their own points by wildly mischaracterizing what I've said, name calling and then making arguments that are even more speculative than what I have already admitted were my own EMPIRACAL observations.

I NEVER said that EVERYBODY is watching on their phones. I further clarified my original comments about the majority of consumers to indicate that I was talking about where the trends are going and where distributors are focusing that effort. It's all here in the last 2 pages. You responded as a person who actually read what I wrote. We agree on some points and I take your criticisms of what we disagree on seriously.

While I'm thankful to the person that linked to an actual data set, I am not convinced by an article that is almost 5 years old. When it comes to trends in technology that is a lifetime. In a COVID world, 2 year old info is wildly outdated.

Some here think that my view is skewed too heavily based on my small sample size. That may be a valid criticism - but to my thinking, not enough to invalidate my concerns about the data as presented. Furthermore, I haven't seen anything that shows, on the server side, what the content providers truly know about how things are being displayed on the client side. They know that they are putting out a 4K Atmos stream which both my HT and phone can output. Do they definitivley know which one I'm watching on?

I feel that a few here are so afraid that a company's catering to the majority necessarily means a race to the bottom....so much so that they are scared to admit who makes up that majority.

Your views don’t even make sense. What do you mean, where the industry is going? Viewing on smartphone has been possible for decades now. Heck, my nephew was watching streamed video on a 3.5 inch IPod last decade. It’s not a new thing. A huge amount of people have smartphones. If this mass change was going to happen, it would have happened. Smartphones are at saturation point now. Netflix, Disney etc.. is available on smart tv, smartphones, tablet, laptop, PC, VR and in the next several years, Augmented Glasses.
If you were correct and the vast majority were viewing movies on smartphones, the evidence would be overwhelming. All the smartphones out there coupled with film consumption would be major news for every tech site, column etc.. tv sales would be down by a huge margin and we wouldn’t have a huge scrap to win the living room by all these tech companies.

The fact is, during COVID, viewership OVERALL went up.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/08/10/streaming-tv-still-growing-despite-lifting-covid-19-restrictions/5540265001/

Look at that percentage for SMART TV viewership, DURING THE PANDEMIC.

So, much more up to date than the six years (it was actually 2018 so four) you turned your nose up at, even though I told you I had read otherwise.

82% of North America use the big screen dominantly. (Streaming)

I can assure you the numbers will be similar in the U.K.

I give you stats, you give me Bill and Betty down the road.


No doubt you will bat these off as “there is no way of telling” sure is. The industry websites have been doing it for a while now. (Often you have to pay for the information)

You are out of touch, fact. It’s common knowledge that tv viewership got even stronger throughout the pandemic.
You can even cross reference my comment about smart tv viewership earlier and see that it correlates with that article and many more articles from various sources. (Many behind paywalls but the headline is the same)


The majority of people are not watching movies on a smartphone. It’s not an argument or an opinion. You are factually incorrect.

You are mistaking movie viewership for teens dancing on tik-tok and young people uploading pics of what they had for tea or happen to be wearing that evening.



Smart tv growth is incredibly healthy. So much so, it is even starting to overtake connected tv viewership. It has grown 160% in two years. Although I must admit in this case, it’s probably less to do with 4K and more to do with folk just needing a new tv and wanting all the apps on their new tv. Plus, once China entered the market, prices dropped and competition is vast.

Furthermore, mobile viewing time is just 9 minutes , which suggests (like I said) social media and user generated are the kings of mobile. Heck, mobile was thrown in with tablet and laptop to reach that 18% share. So we are probably talking around 9% mobile as I’m pretty sure I saw elsewhere tablet use was 4% and desktop/laptop made up the rest.



You are chasing your own tail here, just admit you are wrong. You said you have no problem with it.

It boils down to one line. “You are aware most people watch movies on a smart phone.”. The evidence is against you.

You are no different to the countless people who claimed the same in 2010. They were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Now, can someone help me with this 65 inch OLED, I want to watch the football while I go out for a meal.

[crutzulee]

OK....fine...shrug..

[Vilya]

I have been following this debate on my phone...

I simply see this as a "what device do I want to use to watch a movie" discussion, not a streaming vs. physical media argument. Until someone can show me some hard evidence otherwise, I do not believe for an instant that the "majority" of people would ever choose to watch a movie on the tiniest screen available to them.

T'aint natural, I tells ya!

I also find it hard to believe that the "majority" of people choose to watch movies on their 6" phone screen over, say, their 65"+ TV screen AND that I have NEVER come across anyone doing it. If I had, I woulda teased them mercilessly and I woulda remembered having dun dat.

Try not to take this stuff so seriously; just watch what you want, from whatever source you want, on whatever screen you want. I am confident that everyone else will be doing the same.

[bhampton]

Watch and Let Watch

Happy Easter !

I have to many movies to buy on UHD BD to worry about any future lack of physical media.




I'm going to need a bigger shelf. And that's a great problem to have.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

OK....fine...shrug..

That’s your answer? Seriously?

I thought you had no problem admitting you were wrong?

You just called us delusional, you called me elitist amongst other things. Then you give a petulant reply like that?

Not cool.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Watch and Let Watch

Happy Easter !

I have to many movies to buy on UHD BD to worry about any future lack of physical media.




I'm going to need a bigger shelf. And that's a great problem to have.

Happy Pesach!

Physical media is not going anywhere soon. I caught X in 4K HDR with ATMOS so I'm disappointed that it won't initially be getting a UHD. I'll pass on the bluray and hope for better quality release later.

The family is all home tomorrow and my kids are excited to watch BATMAN when it becomes available on VOD. We'll definitely get the UHD of that one.

LIFEFORCE is my all time favourite guilty pleasure. I've owned it on every format and will once again upgrade it along with OUT OF SIGHT. The local charity shop will once again be the beneficiary of my "old" Blurays.....I feel like I only watched Mathilda May once in 1080 LOL..

I recently did the LIFE OF CRIME, OUT OF SIGHT, JACKIE BROWN trilogy for the family but would love to get rid of my Tarantino boxset in favour of his whole catalogue on UHD! Again, some fan shopping at VALUE VILLAGE here in Toronto will be happy to get it, and I'd be happy to pass it on!

I haven't seen CAT PEOPLE since VHS and I don't think UHD will make me want to see it again. Now HAEVY METAL, I'd be afraid to watch as I would hate for it not hold up the way I remember it...

[stonesfan129]

I can enjoy both. I have quite a few digital copies in HD or 4K where the BD release is long OOP or there was never a 4KBD release. Never Say Never Again is a big one. There's no way I'd pay the going rate for the BD and I don't think this ever came out on 4KBD.

[bhampton]

That's a good reason to settle for Streaming.

There's actually plenty of reasons to settle for streaming. Maybe the 4K ins't planned for release, maybe the disc comes much later, maybe the disc is too expensive relative to how interested you are. Many people only want the gist of the story anyway and they don't really care how they watch it. If I'm on the fence about a movie sometimes I already have access to the streaming version so I can have a look and see if it's worth chasing the disc. This worked well with me for Titane which I was interested in but ultimately was very disappointed by. I would still pick it up used on disc if I see it under $2 because I then would see if it got any better with repeated viewings or I would have it to show people who may be interested in wasting money to see it.



-Brian

[NeonStreetMelt]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

LIFEFORCE is my all time favourite guilty pleasure. I've owned it on every format and will once again upgrade it along with OUT OF SIGHT. The local charity shop will once again be the beneficiary of my "old" Blurays...

Don't know if you have the SF steelbook of Lifeforce like I do, but I will never be getting the UHD of it as it only includes the cut down theatrical version which I see no reason to ever rewatch with the prior Scream release containing the preferred version.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I used that old commodore 64 monitor because it was one of the cheapest and first available ways to watch component video out of an older SVHS machine I had...

I thank you for at least quoting what I've actually said in discussing my points. I have no problem with a spirited discussion in which I have the minority viewpoint. I further have no problem admitting when I'm proven wrong. That's what I think these threads are about. It's why I'm here.

...but there seems to be a mass delusional echo chamber going on here with multiple people so keen on being right, that they weaken their own points by wildly mischaracterizing what I've said, name calling and then making arguments that are even more speculative than what I have already admitted were my own EMPIRACAL observations.

I NEVER said that EVERYBODY is watching on their phones. I further clarified my original comments about the majority of consumers to indicate that I was talking about where the trends are going and where distributors are focusing that effort. It's all here in the last 2 pages. You responded as a person who actually read what I wrote. We agree on some points and I take your criticisms of what we disagree on seriously.

Look man when I was talking about the monitor I was talking about myself not of you, I did not know you did the same or why.

I also did not quote you because I was not responding to You i quoted bhampton because I was responding to him. what he is seeing with his kids has been going on for generations, and I was putting it in context. The tecnology might change but the reality does not sometimes as a kid plan A seem unreachable while plan B is easy and so it is like plan B is the prefered.

Growing up my Grandparents had a nice record player /radio system in the living room one of those 50's/60's pieces where it is all built into a nice piece of furniture, in the basement was an old portable record player, that was the one my uncle had bought because crappy portable player meant he could listen to his music instead of the higher quality audio of the families record player and so when he moved out he left it there (and as kids we used it because like him it meant our music instead of their music when we would visit).

While I'm thankful to the person that linked to an actual data set, I am not convinced by an article that is almost 5 years old. When it comes to trends in technology that is a lifetime. In a COVID world, 2 year old info is wildly outdated.

agree, but you are also assuming trends whrere there is none. Since 2020 Christmas, Easter, thanks giving has been Zoom (this year as well) but we all can't wait to have a real in person get together. Before Covid there was a bunch of guys we would go for a beer every Thursday, for the past couple of months some have started it up again. Personally because my dad lives with me I don't feel comfortable yet to hang out with them but sooner or later you bet we will all be there back having beers every Thursday (I want the pill or something else to get a bit more easy to get before I feel comfortable with any outcome). In both these examples (and the ones before) it is not about trends but about plan A being seen as an impossible choiceat the time and reluctantly going with plan B.

Some here think that my view is skewed too heavily based on my small sample size. That may be a valid criticism - but to my thinking, not enough to invalidate my concerns about the data as presented.

since you bring it up, I think it is skewed because you are jumping to unsupported conclusions and pretending they matter.

I have a friend, many years ago he could not understand why I had a phone land line. A few years later I was at his place and low and behold he had a land line as well. When we first had the discussion he had just moved in with his GF and they had separate friends and they each had their own phones so yes they did not need a land line, but when I was at their house and noticed that other phone (because it rang) they had young kids and a lot more people in their lives that did not care who they talked to.

Will there be people that watch on the small screen some times, absolutely (maybe even everyone at some point in their life). Is it a trend or meaningful? No that is just dumb the same person that will watch X on his phone in the doctors office might later that day watch something else on the TV/projector with family and friends.

That trend and competition only exists in your mind people will use the right/best/only tool they have for the job. Sometimes the solution is the small screen (can't bring that 75"TV in the bus to watch on the comute other times a bigger screen is needed (can't have 20 people around my cell phone)

Furthermore, I haven't seen anything that shows, on the server side, what the content providers truly know about how things are being displayed on the client side. They know that they are putting out a 4K Atmos stream which both my HT and phone can output. Do they definitivley know which one I'm watching on?

lol this is only a very limited view https://mybrowserinfo.com/detail.asp?bhcp=1

of the info that is easily and readily available on every browser. That is why, for example every site on the planet that set's up a mobile version can automaticaly open that mobile version of the site.

I feel that a few here are so afraid that a company's catering to the majority necessarily means a race to the bottom....so much so that they are scared to admit who makes up that majority.

not sure what that means but yes if you want the majority you have to cater to the majority. That is self evident. There are very few people that can afford and are willing to spend the money for a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or even a Corvette. If you want a car that most people can and will buy it needs to be a lot more cheaply built and have more cheap components.

The nice thing is there are stuff for the majority and stuff for people that want something better.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by NeonStreetMelt

Don't know if you have the SF steelbook of Lifeforce like I do, but I will never be getting the UHD of it as it only includes the cut down theatrical version which I see no reason to ever rewatch with the prior Scream release containing the preferred version.

Thanks for the alert, had not noticed that. My BD is 116 minutes while the new UHD BD is 101 minutes. I will still be interested in what the new Atmos track brings to the table.

[Steedeel]

Can’t wait to see Northman, seems the perfect film for a 4K disc release.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Thanks for the alert, had not noticed that. My BD is 116 minutes while the new UHD BD is 101 minutes. I will still be interested in what the new Atmos track brings to the table.

Yeah, I think I've only ever watched the longer version. Maybe I don't need to buy this release.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That’s your answer? Seriously?

I thought you had no problem admitting you were wrong?

You just called us delusional, you called me elitist amongst other things. Then you give a petulant reply like that?

Not cool.

Look man, I gave you what you asked for - What you seem to need. I've never set anyone on ignore before, but I wouldn't mind if you'd do that to me. I'm here looking for a discussion. It is my perception that you are here looking for an argument.

I made a throw away comment about the majority of people consuming media on their phones. Two posts later, I clarified that the comment was made based on empirical evidence - hardly scientific I know...I'll take my lumps on that one.

I have no problem with the fact that no one else shares my opinion. I welcome the input of those that have shared links pertinent to the discussion and have respectfully made arguments against what I've actually said. I feel that I've respectfully explained why I found those arguments compelling though not wholely satisfactory in changing my mind.

When a well respected member like Vilya, repeatedly claims that I've said that people PREFER to watch on their phones, I know that it is a simple misunderstanding. He has proven (often in his dealings with you) that he is a level headed person with no malice intended. Others have erroneously come to the conclusion that I have an issue with HOW people consume their media despite what I have actually said.

When others feel the need to point out why, and under which circumstances, people watch on their phones/tablets etc. and discuss what their kids do, it makes me realize that I wasn't clear in my posts that I feel the same. I never meant to say that people PREFER to watch on their small screens...simply. that for a variety of reasons, they do. If I'm wrong on whether or not they are in the majority so be it.

I do come to the conclusion that, given the number of people that I personally know of that consume media in this fashion and the statistically significant number pointed to in some of the links, there are many (IMHO a majority) that do not place top A/V quality as their highest ranked priority.

I'm happy to carry on a discussion with anyone else on the topic other than you. I feel that you are purposefully mischaracterizing what I've said and drawing ridiculous conclusions. I have a well appointed dedicated media room- I sit 9 feet away from 130" AT/CIH screen (4K JVC DiLA projector) with a 7.4.4 (DENON/PARADIGM) sound system complete with tactile transducers and 2 rows of theater seating - and somehow one of your rants has me predicting the death of physical media and wishing for the end of projectors and TVs. Suffice to say, I have NEVER said nor believed ANYTHING remotely close to this. Unlike other members, my experience with you is that these are not just mere mistakes. They are a willful attempt to obfuscate. The attempt has been successful. Despite my posts going untouched over the last few pages and readily available for people to read, they have responded to me as though I've said the ridiculous things that you've put in my mouth.

I'm no snowflake, while I find your argumentative nature off putting, that trait has never pushed me away before. At best , you've explained it away by claiming that you are passionate (I'm pretty sure you once claimed that you would "die for cinema" ). At worst, you've recently resorted to claiming that other members are ganging up on you and championing their being banned from the site. In some of these threads, you IMHO are the aggressor. I don't really care....I'd love to simply agree to disagree.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by NeonStreetMelt

Don't know if you have the SF steelbook of Lifeforce like I do, but I will never be getting the UHD of it as it only includes the cut down theatrical version which I see no reason to ever rewatch with the prior Scream release containing the preferred version.

No sale for me then...Why would they do this?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Look man, I gave you what you asked for - What you seem to need. I've never set anyone on ignore before, but I wouldn't mind if you'd do that to me. I'm here looking for a discussion. It is my perception that you are here looking for an argument.

I made a throw away comment about the majority of people consuming media on their phones. Two posts later, I clarified that the comment was made based on empirical evidence - hardly scientific I know...I'll take my lumps on that one.

I have no problem with the fact that no one else shares my opinion. I welcome the input of those that have shared links pertinent to the discussion and have respectfully made arguments against what I've actually said. I feel that I've respectfully explained why I found those arguments compelling though not wholely satisfactory in changing my mind.

When a well respected member like Vilya, repeatedly claims that I've said that people PREFER to watch on their phones, I know that it is a simple misunderstanding. He has proven (often in his dealings with you) that he is a level headed person with no malice intended. Others have erroneously come to the conclusion that I have an issue with HOW people consume their media despite what I have actually said.

When others feel the need to point out why, and under which circumstances, people watch on their phones/tablets etc. and discuss what their kids do, it makes me realize that I wasn't clear in my posts that I feel the same. I never meant to say that people PREFER to watch on their small screens...simply. that for a variety of reasons, they do. If I'm wrong on whether or not they are in the majority so be it.

I do come to the conclusion that, given the number of people that I personally know of that consume media in this fashion and the statistically significant number pointed to in some of the links, there are many (IMHO a majority) that do not place top A/V quality as their highest ranked priority.

I'm happy to carry on a discussion with anyone else on the topic other than you. I feel that you are purposefully mischaracterizing what I've said and drawing ridiculous conclusions. I have a well appointed dedicated media room- I sit 9 feet away from 130" AT/CIH screen (4K JVC DiLA projector) with a 7.4.4 (DENON/PARADIGM) sound system complete with tactile transducers and 2 rows of theater seating - and somehow one of your rants has me predicting the death of physical media and wishing for the end of projectors and TVs. Suffice to say, I have NEVER said nor believed ANYTHING remotely close to this. Unlike other members, my experience with you is that these are not just mere mistakes. They are a willful attempt to obfuscate. The attempt has been successful. Despite my posts going untouched over the last few pages and readily available for people to read, they have responded to me as though I've said the ridiculous things that you've put in my mouth.

I'm no snowflake, while I find your argumentative nature off putting, that trait has never pushed me away before. At best , you've explained it away by claiming that you are passionate (I'm pretty sure you once claimed that you would "die for cinema" ). At worst, you've recently resorted to claiming that other members are ganging up on you and championing their being banned from the site. In some of these threads, you IMHO are the aggressor. I don't really care....I'd love to simply agree to disagree.

I will address the last point first. The members high you speak about are well known trolls and the majority of members already know that. They infiltrate the movie threads and give ANY film that isn’t Marvel or Disney 1 star. One has just come back from a Lengthy ban and continued to do what he was doing before.

You don’t know the history so it’s best you don’t jump to conclusions.

The other stuff? You made a incorrect sweeping statement and I produced evidence to the contrary. End of story.
Your reply was petulant and stank of someone not wanting to admit they are wrong.
You also accused members here of being deluded and this being a echo chamber, you pressed your point and continued to press your point. Your ego has been dented because I backed my stuff up with stats. A simple “fair enough, I’m wrong” would have sufficed.

Anthony pointed out to you that it’s easy to gather stats of who is watching on what device yet you STILL persist with your “I’m not convinced” theory.

Regardless, do what you wish. I honestly don’t care.


You obviously do otherwise you wouldn’t have been planning your reply all day and scanning my past posts.

I will just stick you on ignore and it will save us both the time.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I will address the last point first. The members high you speak about are well known trolls and the majority of members already know that. They infiltrate the movie threads and give ANY film that isn’t Marvel or Disney 1 star. One has just come back from a Lengthy ban and continued to do what he was doing before.

You don’t know the history so it’s best you don’t jump to conclusions.

The other stuff? You made a incorrect sweeping statement and I produced evidence to the contrary. End of story.
Your reply was petulant and stank of someone not wanting to admit they are wrong.
You also accused members here of being deluded and this being a echo chamber, you pressed your point and continued to press your point. Your ego has been dented because I backed my stuff up with stats. A simple “fair enough, I’m wrong” would have sufficed.

Regardless, do what you wish. I honestly don’t care.

You obviously do otherwise you wouldn’t have been planning your reply all day and scanning my past posts.

You do you....You didn't even bother to address the ACTUAL deluded post where you accuse me of wishing for the demise of physical disc and home theater gear that I have invested in....

For those that care, it's right on the last page....

[crutzulee]

I will just stick you on ignore and it will save us both the time.

Thanks...