Suspiria (1977) (Remastered)

[Se.Vero]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Which makes my questions even more pertinent:

"Why is the attic scene after the 'rain of maggots' blue in every other version INCLUDING the BFI master print, but on the TLE version you removed the blue?"

"Why is the wall near Suzy late in the film clearly lit with a blue and a green light in every other version INCLUDING the BFI master print, but on the TLE version you removed the blue?"

"Why does so much of the TLE version have a sickly green tint which has never been on any other version INCLUDING the BFI master print?"

"Why is the contrast so low on your version, even as the BFI master print has contrast and documentation re: the intended look of SUSPIRIA clearly indicates that the film was meant to have a high-contrast look, even to the point that Luciano Tovoli has a filter removed from the Tecnhicolor Rome printing chain to specifically increase the contrast."

?

Chris

either you are trying to get things deliberately wrong, or you're just a bit dumb, or probably both.

TLE creates a new master, what blu-ray labels like videa cde or '84 entertainment that buy this master do with it, is a completely different thing. you as the "business insider" you claim to be should know that there it's a long way from a new digital transfer to what actually ends up on a blu-ray disc.

therefore you should not call the italian blu-ray the "TLE" version, where torsten "removed the blue". that's so beyond ridiculous, i don't even find words for it.

you still confuse the italian blu-ray with what TLE films created as a new most accurate master for future preservation. it is NOT the same thing.
italy is also not a part of germany, guess that's also new to you.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Se.Vero

either you are trying to get things deliberately wrong, or you're just a bit dumb, or probably both.

TLE creates a new master, what blu-ray labels like videa cde or '84 entertainment that buy this master do with it, is a completely different thing. you as the "business insider" you claim to be should know that there it's a long way from a new digital transfer to what actually ends up on a blu-ray disc.

therefore you should not call the italian blu-ray the "TLE" version, where torsten "removed the blue". that's so beyond ridiculous, i don't even find words for it.

you still confuse the italian blu-ray with what TLE films created as a new most accurate master for future preservation. it is NOT the same thing.
italy is also not a part of germany, guess that's also new to you.

Torsten indicated in the Italian BD thread that the only difference is the encoding.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=158

[Mpmarks1975]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

Torsten indicated in the Italian BD thread that the only difference is the encoding.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=158

Yes he did state that the Italian disk could be improved upon but it's not drastically different. The German video wise should be the accurate home release of the TLE remaster (at least the first version Torsten is working on for Blu Ray)

[easydreamer]

Originally Posted by DJR662

From what I understand the Japanese is 1080i and not that good, German one is a step up in quality.

It is 1080p but said the deinterlacing was done wrong, resulting in the juggy picture.

http://www.landofwhimsy.com/archives...essions-opera/

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Mpmarks1975

Yes he did state that the Italian disk could be improved upon but it's not drastically different. The German video wise should be the accurate home release of the TLE remaster (at least the first version Torsten is working on for Blu Ray)

Personally, I'm okay with just the Italian release for the TLE restoration. I'm sure the German release will look nicer, but I suspect that Synapse will ultimately be my go-to version. I just wanted to point out that it's acceptable to talk about the color and contrast of the TLE restoration by referencing the Italian BD.

[dickdarlington]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

He gets that a lot.

You're telling me...

[Show spoiler]

I thought people in this thread hate Synapse, but they also hate Arrow too. No studio can win in this thread.

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

Personally, I'm okay with just the Italian release for the TLE restoration. I'm sure the German release will look nicer, but I suspect that Synapse will ultimately be my go-to version. I just wanted to point out that it's acceptable to talk about the color and contrast of the TLE restoration by referencing the Italian BD.

I agree, with the qualification that we are watching on different displays. Every time I hear over and over how the blue is missing in the attic scene on that wall I am puzzled. All I have to do is pop the disc in my Oppo , turn on my plasma and I see blue and green sections on the wall clearly. The maggot scene does have a more muted blue tone but it is there also.

[Jlouisbarrett]

Don May, Jr. made this pretty interesting/exciting post on his Instagram today that makes it sound like the official announcement/release date is right around the corner:

donmayjr Our 40th Anniversary 4K restoration of SUSPIRIA is about to be unleashed (interesting news to come soon). Just waiting on the final round of approvals and any other adjustments from DP Luciano Tovoli from the QuickTime reference reels for a few remaining sequences. It all looks fabulous so far, though! And the 4.0 LCRS original mag sound mastering will blow you away. @jessicaharperama @lamagnolfi

He said some other interesting tidbits in the comments section. Also, he posted this in reply to someone's comment "needs some green," (which was a response to the Suspiria screenshot that accompanied the post) which I'm posting simply because I don't believe we've heard Don speak directly about all the various transfer "controversies":

donmayjr @username you win the internet today! Haha! Thanks for making me smile on this otherwise awful travel day. Maybe, some day, I'll be able to share Tovoli's thoughts on that, if he doesn't do it himself.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Cbeck

I agree, with the qualification that we are watching on different displays. Every time I hear over and over how the blue is missing in the attic scene on that wall I am puzzled. All I have to do is pop the disc in my Oppo , turn on my plasma and I see blue and green sections on the wall clearly. The maggot scene does have a more muted blue tone but it is there also.

And on mine (disc calibrated, not professionally calibrated), the contrast looks fine. Maybe not the intended high-contrast look, but not generally muted either. I need to take a closer look at it one night with particular attention to the capped scenes. I did throw it in recently and just quickly and randomly check out a couple scenes. And trying to think a bit more critically, it did seem slightly off. I wouldn't call it "green," but skin tones looked a little strange (a bit yellow, maybe?) It could just be cognitive bias -- if you go looking for something, you're likely to find it -- but I still think I could see general differences from the general look of the Synapse caps.

[Mpmarks1975]

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

Don May, Jr. made this pretty interesting/exciting post on his Instagram today that makes it sound like the official announcement/release date is right around the corner:



He said some other interesting tidbits in the comments section. Also, he posted this in reply to someone's comment "needs some green," (which was a response to the Suspiria screenshot that accompanied the post) which I'm posting simply because I don't believe we've heard Don speak directly about all the various transfer "controversies":

It will be interesting to see if the early March screenshots will be any different, with Tovoli's involvement. Obviously those could have been the early days of him being involved with this. I'm sure we will soon find out!

[Shingster]

I know people keep fixating on the green of the TLEFIlms restoration but there's also a lot of yellow in the lighting that isn't there on the early Synapse leaks and apparently on the IBTech that TLE used (going from crappy YouTube footage), so I'm really intrigued to see what the Synapse will finally look like, could some of the yellow be reinstated?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

And on mine (disc calibrated, not professionally calibrated), the contrast looks fine. Maybe not the intended high-contrast look, but not generally muted either. I need to take a closer look at it one night with particular attention to the capped scenes. I did throw it in recently and just quickly and randomly check out a couple scenes. And trying to think a bit more critically, it did seem slightly off. I wouldn't call it "green," but skin tones looked a little strange (a bit yellow, maybe?) It could just be cognitive bias -- if you go looking for something, you're likely to find it -- but I still think I could see general differences from the general look of the Synapse caps.

I'm no expert on the film but on a purely objective level the contrast looks off in places, not all the time but in certain shots the blacks are raised far too much and skew towards a distracting shade of blue. This wasn't confirmation bias either as I'd never even seen the film before so I no idea what to expect.

[Shingster]

The contrast is IMO the most interesting question about the Italian vs German. I've said this before but it's very possible that the German release going for Home Video aesthetics may have a punchier presentation in keeping with what we've been told Suspiria is supposed to have

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by Shingster

I know people keep fixating on the green of the TLEFIlms restoration but there's also a lot of yellow in the lighting that isn't there on the early Synapse leaks and apparently on the IBTech that TLE used (going from crappy YouTube footage), so I'm really intrigued to see what the Synapse will finally look like, could some of the yellow be reinstated?

I see yellows also on my display. Certainly more so than in the screen captures everyone uses for comparisons.

I don't know how to account for all the differences, but I would encourage watching the disc on different setups.

[Shingster]

I'm saying there's more yellow tones on the TLE cbeck, not that the early unfinished, leaked Synapse grabs and the youTube filming of the IB Tech had no yellow tones, just less than the TLE. I just think it's an interesting observation when people are stating that the Synapse must be the correct release because it exhibits more colours in certain shots.

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by Shingster

I'm saying there's more yellow tones on the TLE cbeck, not that the early unfinished, leaked Synapse grabs and the youTube filming of the IB Tech had no yellow tones, just less than the TLE. I just think it's an interesting observation when people are stating that the Synapse must be the correct release because it exhibits more colours in certain shots.

I understand now. Sorry I misunderstood your phrasing. Yes, certainly more yellow in general. I noticed the one screen grab of Suzy about to stab witch shows more yellow on my display than screen capture , the candle light fixture stands out much more due to this.

[Shingster]

Here's what I'm talking about. These two grabs compare the Italian BD to the unfinished 1080p grabs release by Synapse a while back, and as you can see in screenshot one the TLE has a yellowy-green lighting cast that is completely missing on the unfinished Synapse (which more or less matches up the YouTube video of the BFI IB Tech). Screenshot two is just an example of how the TLE is more yellow in places.

I'm curious as to how the finished Synapse is gonna look with regards to these discrepancies, obviously screenshot two is just a matter of tone, but that first screenshot exhibits a clear difference in lighting. It's very strange and like I say the IBTech footage leaked on YouTube lasy year or so matched up to the Synapse in that shot, the bright yellowy-green lighting wasn't there at all, which even if you say "well that YouTube footage is a rough and may not have been a calibrated screening with the correct bulb or a dodgy screen, etc" I still don't think we'd see a complete lack of colour where a very bright, very vivid lighting cast should be.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm no expert on the film but on a purely objective level the contrast looks off in places, not all the time but in certain shots the blacks are raised far too much and skew towards a distracting shade of blue. This wasn't confirmation bias either as I'd never even seen the film before so I no idea what to expect.

I was watching with the caps in mind, so I think my opinion was relative to that (I was expecting a low-contrast mess). Also, it's such a huge improvement over my UK disc. I kinda want to give it another go now and see if I'm still as impressed, but I want to save my next viewing for Synapse, as I don't want to get Suspiria fatigue.

[skyofcrack]

Nice to see the Synapse set will include the soundtrack CD remastered.

[Kakihara]

I don't want to add any flame to the already growing fire in this thread but I really hope Synapse doesn't remove ALL the green tint in the movie. I like the mixture of blues, reds, yellows, and greens that I've become familiar with the film. I mean, I do not like this movie on a narrative sense or really treat it as a movie. It's simply a gorgeous moving painting to me and I would like to own the best-looking copy to my eyes...so I'll continue to wait patiently for the release to compare before making my decision.