Official Film Noir on Blu-ray Thread

[Se.Vero]

Originally Posted by AlexHarvey

This post is not about noir on Blu-ray but is noir related.

I tried to watch the "you got to see it" noir Decoy yesterday which I purchased back in July 2007 which is in the Warner Film Noir Box Set Vol. 4. It played fine when new, but now almost ten years later it won't play at all in my old Panasonic BD player. On my fairly new Oppo BD player it starts to freeze and stutter in chapter 3, completely skips chapter 4, and then resumes at chapter 5 perfectly until the end. So I'm missing about 21 minutes from a 75 minute movie. Crime Wave which is on the same disc plays fine. As far as I know this box set is out of print. I guess our beloved noirs on DVD might not last forever.

If you have never seen Decoy, the plot is kind of "you won't believe what happens in this film". I would call it a must see for any noir fan. Jean Gille plays one of the most vicious femme fatale of the noir cycle.

i bought hundreds of dvd's used, a couple of them older than 15 years, and have never had any issues. not even fairly scratched cd-r's that i burned nearly 20 years ago ever failed. so rotting discs is an issue i only know from internet forums.

[Se.Vero]

a couple of titles that i couldn't find in the OP list, but in my opinion should be considered to be included:

[AlexHarvey]

Originally Posted by Se.Vero

i bought hundreds of dvd's used, a couple of them older than 15 years, and have never had any issues. not even fairly scratched cd-r's that i burned nearly 20 years ago ever failed. so rotting discs is an issue i only know from internet forums.

I have had 2 Blu-ray's and now 1 DVD that won't play properly, although they did when they were new. I don't count my DVD's and Blu-rays so I don't know how many I have, but I would guess close to 2000. There could be lots more rotting discs I don't know about, as some movies have to wait for 10 years to get a second viewing. I also have many CD's that take up more shelf space than my movies and as far as I know they all play like new. My Beatles and Stones mono LP's purchased in 1964 are fine too.

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

That's a sweet lineup.

Out of the Past is my all-time favorite film. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts about it.

I just watched it about a week ago. I believe it was my third or fourth viewing. The first time I watched it, I had it at a 7/10. For me, there were too many scenes in settings that did not grab me. The river and woods were two. However, now I see the genius behind using them.

Now, it is at a 9/10 and probably destined for a 10/10. I know it is consider by most that love this genre one of the quintessential noirs, but it just took me a while to fully connect. I have always loved Mitchum (The Friends of Eddie Coyle a favorite) and Douglas (Ace in the Hole is a 10/10 for me and am hopeful that someone will BD The Bad and the Beautiful), so even at that level, it should of caught me sooner as one of the best out there.

Nonetheless, with each watch, my appreciation has grown and I will take it in again sooner than later. And, it has a line that I cannot get out of my head and need to apply to myself more:

Whit: You just sit and stay inside yourself. You wait for me to talk. I like that.
Jeff: I never found out much listening to myself.

I short, this film, along with Citizen Kane, taught me to not give up on films others love after only one viewing. So in that regard, it is appreciated at this end at a whole other level.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Se.Vero

a couple of titles that i couldn't find in the OP list, but in my opinion should be considered to be included:

[Show spoiler]

Thanks. I originally had Spellbound, Notorious, and Rebecca on the list, but there was some debate as to whether they're true noir, or like many Hitchcock films a blending of suspense, thriller, drama, etc..so I removed them at the time, until there was greater consensus, but the topic moved on from then. I do think some fit, or can be considered noir-stained, but I would like to discuss it further here.

As for the others:

Beat Generation - Is "noir-stained" at least, but not sure if it truly counts. I know The Great Owl said it dips into noir, but also strays away from it too.

To Have and Have Not - more of a romance and war-time drama than noir, no?

The Lodger (1944) - Haven't seen it, but I'm reading it's more of a horror. I skimmed through the film (via Youtube) and didn't get the impression it's a noir. Input?

The Lost Moment - I know little about this one. Sounds like it could fit, but would like more feedback.

The Paradine Case - A case can be made, but not a lot of sources point to it being noir, but more of a courtroom drama type of film. Would like more input here.

Suspicion - Another Hitchcock film that defies typical genres. I would put this one more into the suspense/psychological thriller category. Visually, it definitely has a noir style to it though (like many Hitchcock films).

M, The Trap, The Woman in the Window have been added thanks

[Bogey]

And for us just digging into noir, this list is absolute gold. Thanks for the continued effort .

[Se.Vero]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Thanks. I originally had Spellbound, Notorious, and Rebecca on the list, but there was some debate as to whether they're true noir, or like many Hitchcock films a blending of suspense, thriller, drama, etc..so I removed them at the time, until there was greater consensus, but the topic moved on from then. I do think some fit, or can be considered noir-stained, but I would like to discuss it further here.

As for the others:

Beat Generation - Is "noir-stained" at least, but not sure if it truly counts. I know The Great Owl said it dips into noir, but also strays away from it too.

To Have and Have Not - more of a romance and war-time drama than noir, no?

The Lodger (1944) - Haven't seen it, but I'm reading it's more of a horror. I skimmed through the film (via Youtube) and didn't get the impression it's a noir. Input?

The Lost Moment - I know little about this one. Sounds like it could fit, but would like more feedback.

The Paradine Case - A case can be made, but not a lot of sources point to it being noir, but more of a courtroom drama type of film. Would like more input here.

Suspicion - Another Hitchcock film that defies typical genres. I would put this one more into the suspense/psychological thriller category. Visually, it definitely has a noir style to it though (like many Hitchcock films).

M, The Trap, The Woman in the Window have been added thanks

Thank you too for your considerations

As for the Hitchcock titles:
yes they blend different genres (or make a genre of it's own), but since we agree that film noir is not a genre but a style, i think they should be in the OP again (since actually nobody disagreed with the fact that they are very "noir-ish" in the initial discussion back in 2014 ).

Same goes for "The Lodger", "To Have And Have Not", "The Paradine Case", they may be various genres, but they are all "noir".

For example "The Ox-Bow Incident" and "Ramrod" are also on the list, despite not featuring a "typical" urban setting but being genuine westerns through and through. "Cat People" for example is no less a horror movie than "The Lodger" imo.

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Thanks. I originally had Spellbound, Notorious, and Rebecca on the list, but there was some debate as to whether they're true noir, or like many Hitchcock films a blending of suspense, thriller, drama, etc..so I removed them at the time, until there was greater consensus, but the topic moved on from then. I do think some fit, or can be considered noir-stained, but I would like to discuss it further here.

As for the others:

Beat Generation - Is "noir-stained" at least, but not sure if it truly counts. I know The Great Owl said it dips into noir, but also strays away from it too.

To Have and Have Not - more of a romance and war-time drama than noir, no?

The Lodger (1944) - Haven't seen it, but I'm reading it's more of a horror. I skimmed through the film (via Youtube) and didn't get the impression it's a noir. Input?

The Lost Moment - I know little about this one. Sounds like it could fit, but would like more feedback.

The Paradine Case - A case can be made, but not a lot of sources point to it being noir, but more of a courtroom drama type of film. Would like more input here.

Suspicion - Another Hitchcock film that defies typical genres. I would put this one more into the suspense/psychological thriller category. Visually, it definitely has a noir style to it though (like many Hitchcock films).

M, The Trap, The Woman in the Window have been added thanks

You were right to exclude them the first time around. Not films noir.

[Se.Vero]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

You were right to exclude them the first time around. Not films noir.

you could point out which titles exactly you are talking about, (or all of them?), also give reasons why to exclude them, instead of stating your opinion like it was a fact.

[kaseaver]

Seems to me inclusion of Hitchcock titles has been discussed a lot. Mifune seems to have compromised by including Shadow of a Doubt, Strangers on a Train, Vertigo, I Confess and The Wrong Man. I mostly agree with including these titles. I would recommend adding Suspicion b/c of darkness of the plot/theme and of the protagonist.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Se.Vero

Thank you too for your considerations

As for the Hitchcock titles:
yes they blend different genres (or make a genre of it's own), but since we agree that film noir is not a genre but a style, i think they should be in the OP again (since actually nobody disagreed with the fact that they are very "noir-ish" in the initial discussion back in 2014 ).

Same goes for "The Lodger", "To Have And Have Not", "The Paradine Case", they may be various genres, but they are all "noir".

For example "The Ox-Bow Incident" and "Ramrod" are also on the list, despite not featuring a "typical" urban setting but being genuine westerns through and through. "Cat People" for example is no less a horror movie than "The Lodger" imo.

There isn't really any consensus on how film noir should be defined. The three most common classifications are that it's a genre, a movement, or a style. I think the genre and even movement categorizations may be a bit too narrow, while just looking at it from a style POV may be too broad. Noir is one of those things where we'll never have complete agreement on what counts and what doesn't.

I don't want to restrict the list too much, but I also don't want to make it a slippery slope where anything that has a certain look falls in too. There's a fine line there, which is why terms like noir-stained often get used for the more borderline entries.

You do point to some examples like Cat People, and The Ox-Bow Incident where I'm more iffy about, but we reached a consensus more or less that it fits. I always like to hear as much feedback as possible about these "on the fence" titles before adding them. I know it's impossible to please everyone here with the list, but if most agree about a certain title, then I feel better about it making the list.

Thank goodness the bulk of the list is unequivocally noir though

[MassiveMovieBuff]

I watched Out of the Past lastnight. What an incredible film noir! This movie is the definition of film noir. It literally drips with it. I loved its style and performances. Everyone was superb especially Paul Valentine who really stood out for me. His opening scene at the beginning of the film was terrific. I couldn't quite tell where his character was coming from and it gave it a threatening quality that was very effective. I've never seen Robert Mitchum so young and he was outstanding as well. Seeing him and Kirk Douglas sitting in the same room together at the young ages they were was one of the greatest moments in film history for me. Jane Greer was great and sexy as hell. I only really started getting into black and white films a few years ago and I've really learned to appreciate and savor the amazing cinematography of black and white. On the surface it just seems like black and white but when you really get into it you can literally notice the differences in look and style with the cinematography. Im sure how excellent these look on blu ray really adds to it as well. I can definitely see why this is The Great Owl's favorite film noir. I'll be removing a film from my list on the top 50 films noir thread to add this one. A perfect 5/5!

[Bogey]

And talk to me MMB, did Jane Greer (Kathie) give Ava Gardner's Kitty Collins and Barbara Stanwyck's Phyllis Dietrichson characters a run for their money? She was brutal!

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by Bogey

And talk to me MMB, did Jane Greer (Kathie) give Ava Gardner's Kitty Collins and Barbara Stanwyck's Phyllis Dietrichson characters a run for their money? She was brutal!

Yes absolutely! Definitely ranks as one of the top femme fatales.

[jetthead]

Originally Posted by Bogey

And talk to me MMB, did Jane Greer (Kathie) give Ava Gardner's Kitty Collins and Barbara Stanwyck's Phyllis Dietrichson characters a run for their money? She was brutal!

I would add Lizbeth Scott's Jane Palmer from Too Late For Tears to any list of Most Ruthless Femme Fatales.

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by jetthead

I would add Lizbeth Scott's Jane Palmer from Too Late For Tears to any list of Most Ruthless Femme Fatales.

Ann Savage in Detour. Her name says it all.

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by jetthead

I would add Lizbeth Scott's Jane Palmer from Too Late For Tears to any list of Most Ruthless Femme Fatales.

I'll have to check it out. Thanks!

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

Ann Savage in Detour. Her name says it all.

Indeed. However, she took about three seconds to make life rough. The other two let the poor saps take the line out before reeling them in. Either way, the party came to an end.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

Ann Savage in Detour. Her name says it all.

Her portrayal of Vera is unique among the pantheon of femme fatales because unlike a lot of them (such as Jane Greer's character in Out of the Past) who seem innocent and only later reveal their deadly intentions, she's spitting nails from the moment she appears on screen. And Tom Neal's Al still can't help himself.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

For all those The Big Sleep fans out there which version should I watch for my first viewing for the blu ray?