Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Groot

And a company in the business of digital movies would do that. Just like hosting companies have been doing for decades. I don't see millions of websites suddenly dying.

Millions of websites have already died.

[ThatOneGuy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

We can't make copies. We can resell the disc.

Yes but then you lose your film. That isn't preservation. Preservation is keeping the film protect so it isn't lost.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by John Klein

Yes but then you lose your film. That isn't preservation. Preservation is keeping the film protect so it isn't lost.

As long as supply exceeds demand movies will always be available to the people who want them. Since most movies are far more popular when they first come out they generally have far more copies in circulation then people who want them. Every movie that remains in circulation can't be lost.

[ThatOneGuy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

As long as supply exceeds demand movies will always be available to the people who want them. Since most movies are far more popular when they first come out they generally have far more copies in circulation then people who want them.

True but how does digital prevent it? Yes some sites like VUDU doesn't directly give you a file but you can get quite a lot of film files. I believe Itunes gives you the downloaded files just like they do with music.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by John Klein

True but how does digital prevent it? Yes some sites like VUDU doesn't directly give you a file but you can get quite a lot of film files. I believe Itunes gives you the downloaded files just like they do with music.

But selling or giving away those files is illegal. Therefore if iTunes no longer offers a movie then no one who doesn't already have it can ever get it.

With physical media anyone can buy a disc from one of the thousands of people who previously bought a disc and no longer wants it.

Plus if you don't break the DRM (which is also illegal to do) then your downloaded files can easily become useless.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Millions of websites have already died.

Tell me one instance where a large hosting firm suddenly shut down and every website was lost.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Groot

Tell me one instance where a large hosting firm suddenly shut down and every website was lost.

You misunderstood me completely. When someone stops paying to host an individual website that website gets deleted. The hosting companies aren't charities, they will only host the websites that they are being paid to host.

The same thing will happen with movies. When a movie is no longer profitable and no one is paying to keep it on the digital providers' servers then it will get deleted. Why would they pay to host an unprofitable movie when they can use that space for profitable movies?

[Groot]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

You misunderstood me completely. When someone stops paying to host an individual website that website gets deleted. The hosting companies aren't charities, they will only host the websites that they are being paid to host.

The same thing will happen with movies. When a movie is no longer profitable and no one is paying to keep it on the digital providers' servers then it will get deleted. Why would they pay to host an unprofitable movie when they can use that space for profitable movies?

Let me see if I'm following you - your entire deletion concern is based on not a single person paying for it?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Groot

Let me see if I'm following you - your entire deletion concern is based on not a single person paying for it?

If a movie isn't profitable anymore why would anyone pay to host it?

Plus there are licensing concerns as well. If the music rights expire for a film then all the music would be replaced with generic music or if it's deemed to expensive to bother with that then the movie would just be removed.

Or rights can change hands for a character without the rights changing for the movie they're in. In that case no one would have the legal right to offer that movie anymore.

Or someone could pull a George Lucas and modify an existing movie. All of the digital copies could be simultaneously changed but all the physical copies would remain unaffected.

Or censorship could happen. A studio could have new owners that don't like a particular movie. They'd have the ability and legal right to remove it.

There are plenty of things that can cause a movie to become unavailable but none of them can affect the physical copies that have already been made and sold.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Groot

TB servers have more than 1 terabyte of data, dude.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I'm aware of that. But it takes thousands of terabytes to store the new movies added every year. Plus there's the expense of replacing failing hard drives every few years. None of that is cheap.

I'm with you Groot, Storage is very cheap and Hard Drives are all Solid State. They keep going up in size past Petabytes, and I believe Secure Media Servers can be located anywhere on your Local Intranet or ISP.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I'm with you Groot, Storage is very cheap and Hard Drives are all Solid State. They keep going up in size past Petabytes, and I believe Secure Media Servers can be located anywhere on your Local Intranet or ISP.

It would be absurdly expensive to store everything on solid state drives. That would cost at least $100 per terabyte (current prices are closer to $300). If they only had 50 copies of each movie spread around the country (they probably have a lot more than that) it would cost about $300 to store each UHD movie.

Digital providers get 30% of each sale so in order to justify using up $300 of storage each movie would have to make over $1000 in sales. For movies that are over a decade old and were never that popular in the first place that'll never happen.

Since the digital providers will have tens of thousands of movies like that they'll save millions of dollars by deleting them and reclaiming the space.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

Until the mid 80's with VHS becoming popular in millions of households movie collections like ours simply didn't exist. Still, was the average person in the 80's until DVD buying thousands of VHS's or were they renting? So the rental industry didn't shut down independent films. Which goes back to your prior statement:



https://www.engadget.com/2016/01/20/...-already-dead/



Here, more people are buying films that typically do not out of convenience of the format of digital. Applying that same rental rational, which in this case it makes more money than rentals did, digital would have the opposite effect of what you're saying and would increase the chance of smaller, more obscure titles being seen.

If you are going to quote articles, let's get the facts straight. DVD was down, not Bluray. Straight away, in my opinion, the article loses all credibility.
Next, it's the old routine of throwing Netflix and Amazon in there to boost the figures. Take away those numbers and Digital HD is struggling. Even more so now, with Digital HD sales slumping to single digits at the end of the year. There is a reason the industry is panicking and looking for another alternative to Ultravilot in my opinion.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yea, I know what you mean, I still have a pair of Sansui 2000 Speakers that I bought in a PX in Da Nang, Vietnam. They use to blow me away, but wives usually don't go for all that loud sound. So now with some good Headsets I can turn them up as loud as I want....Sometimes, I still get called on it once in a while.

Be careful with that volume man.

[Steedeel]

I keep getting dragged back in here, it's addictive.

[darkknightman]

Has anyone also considered the possibility that many people don't feel the need to own movies at all anymore? That is the trend I am seeing in my social circle. People watch a movie once and that is it.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I keep getting dragged back in here, it's addictive.

No one believed you would stay away. I was going to put "see you in the morning"

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Has anyone also considered the possibility that many people don't feel the need to own movies at all anymore? That is the trend I am seeing in my social circle. People watch a movie once and that is it.

I have mentioned this numerous times. This is what I am seeing too. I don't' know anyone between my immediate family, friends, and coworkers that buys any kind of media, be it physical or digital. It's all streaming and cable for them.

I can't stop checking this thread either. I don't know why, as it is just the same stuff back and forth. Both have pros and cons. Both are available today. So...cool.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

I have mentioned this numerous times. This is what I am seeing too. I don't' know anyone between my immediate family, friends, and coworkers that buys any kind of media, be it physical or digital. It's all streaming and cable for them.

I can't stop checking this thread either. I don't know why, as it is just the same stuff back and forth. Both have pros and cons. Both are available today. So...cool.

But this is about collectors. The people you mentioned aren't big enough movie fans. If they were, they wouldn't be waiting months end months to see the latest films (outside the cinema) we have always been the minority who care about quality and are so passionate about movies. The general population are happy to zoink out with Netflix or Hulu after work.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

I have mentioned this numerous times. This is what I am seeing too. I don't' know anyone between my immediate family, friends, and coworkers that buys any kind of media, be it physical or digital. It's all streaming and cable for them.

I can't stop checking this thread either. I don't know why, as it is just the same stuff back and forth. Both have pros and cons. Both are available today. So...cool.

This is exactly what I am observing as well. The discussion seems to be relegated to physical vs digital exclusively. I believe a variable that is not included in this discussion is ownership vs non ownership. Between my friends, family and coworkers, no one is buying movies in any form. It's Netflix or various other forms of streaming or rental. There are so many big blockbuster type of movies that are released every year that people just can't keep up with collecting anymore. There is just too much content now. Not to mention the economy is not improving for the majority of Americans that I believe for many collecting just isn't worth the money anymore.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But this is about collectors. The people you mentioned aren't big enough movie fans. If they were, they wouldn't be waiting months end months to see the latest films (outside the cinema) we have always been the minority who care about quality and are so passionate about movies. The general population are happy to zoink out with Netflix or Hulu after work.

This is just a fallacy. I love movies and love going to the cinema. I just don't feel the need to own everything anymore. Criticizing people for the way they choose to consume media is insulting. I too previously amassed collections of films since the VHS days and have simply grown tired of it. I find the convenience of streaming and digital ownership to be more convenient. It isn't because I am lazy or like films any less than you do. I personally have found that collecting anything just isn't worth the energy. It seems to be more of a pseudo hoarding thing.