Heat 4K UHD (1995)

[OutOfBoose]

Originally Posted by zepol

What are the all-time top 10 worst 4k of good movies? We have PIRATES #1, T2, HEAT and what else?

Heat doesn't belong here.

To be honest, worst cases aren't the worst UHDs out there (those require total rework plain and simple), but those that fall short of being great. Sort of like LOTR. Gorgeous otherwise, but extra DNR really shits the bed. Or TDK trilogy again with extra DNR. Or Basic Instinct with DNR and questionable color grading at times (not to mention, the infamous shot of the green house). Don't get me started on The Matrix... You can probably add Heat here, depending on who you ask. I personally don't mind the dim look and the encode is great. I saw crapton of dim-looking movies, but maybe in this case some people are used to watch much brighter version of the movie, so it's offensive to them.

[hoejunter]

[Ben_C]

Originally Posted by zepol

What are the all-time top 10 worst 4k of good movies? We have PIRATES #1, T2, HEAT and what else?

Trolls?

[Tuc0]

This thread is awesome.

[BadBone]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Jesus H Christ. This disc is NOT on the same level as the abomination that is T2 on 4K. No. Not even f*cking close.

~Matt

It depends. To some viewers it is, to some it isn't. I can make this release look wathcable if I tweak my tv settings a bit, but with default settings it's a lot worse than T2 UHD. If those that like the disc saw this 4K on my set I'm sure they would understand me better. When the image is so dark I'm missing a lot of detail it's not a nice experience.

Why do people in this thread get so emotional when someone doesn't agree with them? Isn't it a bit petty?

[CSM101]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Mann, the discussion here sure has gotten Heated

Ferocious, aren’t they?!!

[Jorvic]

There's been some debate on the colour of the sky in daylight scenes on the 4K UHD. During the main heist scene, as Hanna approaches the bank down the sidewalk and hides momentarily behind a pillar, there's clear blue sky visible in the frame.

Think he also pushes past the same two people twice between scenes there (continuity error?).

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Jesus H Christ. This disc is NOT on the same level as the abomination that is T2 on 4K. No. Not even f*cking close.

~Matt

I know. That disc isn't dim af.

[nissling]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Source?

I've seen a release print of it from 1981 as recent as 2017 when the Swedish Film Institute had a Mann retrospective. Saw it with the Criterion/Arrow discs in mind, expecting it to be very different, but man it was so blue you wouldn't believe it. Wrote a longer post about it in its dedicated thread. The only real difference in color timing was that the restoration had slightly bluer skin tones in a few scenes, but otherwise it was almost a perfect match.

The theatrical cuts available on Blu-Ray have far too much red push, which is fairly common to see for Eastmancolor if you've scanned the OCN and not done proper color timing. It's very characteristic for old MGM masters. Whenever I'm scanning Eastman 5247 I always end up having to adjust the gamma curve for the red channel specifically. Tho most of the color films I've restored have been developed with ECN-1 rather than ECN-2 which can drift more over time from my experience.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally Posted by CSM101

Ferocious, aren’t they?!!

That line I actually missed during my recent viewing!
Such a shame Mann took it out!
Doesn't take away as much from the movie as the "Jesus Tom!" line in Miller's Crossing that was cut in the Criterion blu, but pretty dang close...

[CSM101]

I miss the detritus line more. I actually remember learning about it in science in grade school and thought it was cool that it was actually used in a movie.

[blupetros]

Originally Posted by slimjean

What is "most" people? A few complainers on a forum?

In this case some tv's are also a part of it.

.....That is the movie, and cryin' isn't gonna help.

Most, some, a few, who cares? Stop being so pedantic.

Wherever did I say I found it too dark?

No "cryin'" here, (ZD9 owner).

You completely missed the point of my original comment to jrcorwin3 that you felt the need to comment on, proving my original point precisely.

[Beatnik]

So many websites online are quick to ban people or lock threads at the drop of a hat. So I just want to thank the mods for letting this thread continue. It's been an entertaining read. (though less personal attacks would be nice everyone, it's just a movie...)

[Ben_C]

^
I was surprised to see the thread was locked for a bit last weekend.

[Brahmzy]

Dayum. This thread, lol. I just read the last 3 pages or so of it.

I guess I better go watch this disc. I got it release day and haven’t had the time, despite this being top 5 for me. Been waiting for the perfect time (by myself.)

But yeah, this thread. I’m going to go in with low expectations on this one.

Calibrated 83A90J - I’ll report back.

[slimjean]

Originally Posted by blupetros

Most, some, a few, who cares? Stop being so pedantic.

You stated that most are having problems.

I pointed out that your observation is not accurate. If you are insulted by it, perhaps stop generalizing.

What I do see is some C1 owners that like it. This tells me there is at least some evidence of a calibration issue. It is more to the ratings of its weakness in my reading. It is a dim tv to begin with.

Of course you don't complain about it being a dim tv. You are watching a Sony. Forget the fact the Z9D is still after all these years a high performing tv (and I got a full replacement warranty that is still good and I bought it open box years ago. Lol), it is sad and pathetic that the achilles heal of Oleds have always been if a movie is on the dark end.

Blacks are shown "perfect" because the pixel is turned off (I don't agree, because every pixel is designed to have some information), but yet that can go too far when you have the surrounding pixels that need that blending for the micro data.

I may be a rarity, but I actually believe in a backlight for the mind to have a context on information that is there. It is no different than having a light behind your television where the edge pixels also need a context.

Light vs dark, I take light every single time.

I just gave my Z9D another kiss. Best tv I have ever owned.

As a chemist I never subscribed to Oleds because of the one thing I know. Organics (like Alq3) break down in light. Think about it. You have carbon bonds that are competing with oxygen produced in any panel. The design is a failure.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/arti...06/cp/b514898g

A painted phospher is mostly inorganic (GaN, GaAs) and any organics that do exist are a small piece of the puzzle...why because if any part fails/fades just like analog, it isn't simple as on and off.

Not true with a C1 which is notorious for color fading which is absolutely related to burn in at the nanolevel. When it fails...just like digital it is the equivalent of off...no in between. There are lots of pretty labs that have great organic fluorescent demonstrations. There is a reason why technicians have jobs...you have to use more fresh chemicals to create the same effect.

Here is the sad part. While I think a good bit of the problems are poorly calibrated tv's, the other part is obvious.

The tv's are getting dimmer by design where the inorganics are like light fading a mirror...and what is a mirror made of...you guessed it, inorganic. It ain't happening at any perceptible level!

In closing I wasn't saying you were crying...I was saying others were crying based on the Oled band wagon. Like sheep they follow, and never stopped to research the obvious built in failures.

Heat bringing it to the masses. The Z9D and other inorganics are up to the challenge.

Do I sound pompous and bragging...yup. I am protective about Heat and this one is a beauty.

Now I am watching Indiana Jones ROTLA 4K...love the movie...the transfer isn't. Too much DNR!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nissling

I've seen a release print of it from 1981 as recent as 2017 when the Swedish Film Institute had a Mann retrospective. Saw it with the Criterion/Arrow discs in mind, expecting it to be very different, but man it was so blue you wouldn't believe it. Wrote a longer post about it in its dedicated thread. The only real difference in color timing was that the restoration had slightly bluer skin tones in a few scenes, but otherwise it was almost a perfect match.

The theatrical cuts available on Blu-Ray have far too much red push, which is fairly common to see for Eastmancolor if you've scanned the OCN and not done proper color timing. It's very characteristic for old MGM masters. Whenever I'm scanning Eastman 5247 I always end up having to adjust the gamma curve for the red channel specifically. Tho most of the color films I've restored have been developed with ECN-1 rather than ECN-2 which can drift more over time from my experience.

But that old transfer of Thief is off an IP anyway. It looks red AF because most transfers of that age were pushed way too warm to counteract the inherently cool colour temp of CRTs, so people keep saying?

[nissling]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It looks red AF because most transfers of that age were pushed way too warm to counteract the inherently cool colour temp of CRTs, so people keep saying?

I'm not completely sure about this. However, some Japanese films were distributed in the west with masters that were graded for D93 during the DVD era. This caused seriously heavy red push when viewed on a display calibrated to D65 obviously and several Ghibli films suffered from this. After the transition to HD however, it seems to not be an issue anymore thankfully.

Didn't know that the theatrical cut was scanned from an IP by the way but it does make sense. They often have fairly basic color timing but should not be seen as references.

[captainron_howdy]

All I had to do was switch my T.V. from Filmmaker mode to Movie mode and now everything looks pretty great.

[PNguyen]

Originally Posted by captainron_howdy

All I had to do was switch my T.V. from Filmmaker mode to Movie mode and now everything looks pretty great.

Hm what’s the difference between those modes?