Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

What is your explanation? They were purposely trying to hurt people who like the DD5.1 mix? That makes a lot more sense. Warner has a secret deal with Dolby to not promote DD5.1 lossy anymore? Warner is a $31 billion studio but has no power to tell their authoring team what tracks to put on the disc?

The explanation I proposed definitely makes the most sense, by far.

No, it really doesn't. SII had a 70mm mix and I think S3 did too. So the inconsistency makes no sense, and your "2.0 sound bar" explanation makes no sense on a AAA title.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by starmike

No, it really doesn't. SII had a 70mm mix and I think S3 did too. So the inconsistency makes no sense, and your "2.0 sound bar" explanation makes no sense on a AAA title.

You clearly haven't been following home media closely. Disney, for instance, actively tones down their primary Atmos mixes (condescendingly referred to as Atmouse) to cater to soundbar users. Kino and Shout put 2.0 mixes (often just pro downmixes of the 5.1 track) on all their releases for same reason. If you think that isn't a factor, you'd be very wrong.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

You clearly haven't been following home media closely. Disney, for instance, actively tones down their primary Atmos mixes (condescendingly referred to as Atmouse) to cater to soundbar users. If you think that isn't a factor, you'd be very wrong.

HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAH

I've been following since the late 80s, bud.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by starmike

HAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAH

I've been following since the late 80s, bud.

It ain't the late 80s anymore.

Standalone big box speakers and amps are virtually dead with the mainstream public, so studios are catering to smaller form factor sound systems on home media releases in various ways.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

It ain't the late 80s anymore.

Standalone big box speakers and amps are virtually dead with the mainstream public, so studios are catering to smaller form factor sound systems on home media releases in various ways.

This is a lie. "Virtually dead"? Then why are home theater shops in my area still doing very well? Where is your proof of this?

EDIT: This is what Ruined thinks "virtually dead" means:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/home-theat...184800080.html
"The global home theatre systems market is expected to grow from $22.77 billion in 2021 to $27.24 billion in 2022 at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 19.6%."

Also...

"The home theatre systems market consists of sales of sound bars, home theatre in a box system (HTIB), and other home theater systems."

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by starmike

This is a lie. "Virtually dead"? Then why are home theater shops in my area still doing very well? Where is your proof of this?

EDIT: This is what Ruined thinks "virtually dead" means:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/home-theat...184800080.html
"The global home theatre systems market is expected to grow from $22.77 billion in 2021 to $27.24 billion in 2022 at a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 19.6%."

Also...

"The home theatre systems market consists of sales of sound bars, home theatre in a box system (HTIB), and other home theater systems."

So I am wrong yet the definition of "home theater systems market" in your own link consists primarily of HTIB (tiny speakers, similar quality/size as soundbar except satellite form factor rather than bar) and soundbars. Lol. This link proves me more right than wrong.

I know a couple of people who own traditional home theater shops that sell gear like Parasound, PSB, etc. The demand has dried up and those companies had to triple their prices to compensate as volume is gone. Most people buy tiny speakers with low-watt built-in amps as your link proves, thank you.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

So I am wrong yet the definition of "home theater systems market" in your own link consists primarily of HTIB (tiny speakers, similar quality/size as soundbar except satellite form factor rather than bar) and soundbars. Lol. This link proves me more right than wrong.

I know a couple of people who own traditional home theater shops that sell gear like Parasound, PSB, etc. The demand has dried up and those companies had to triple their prices to compensate as volume is gone. Most people buy tiny speakers with low-watt built-in amps as your link proves, thank you.

You obviously didn't read the rest of the article.

"The main products of the home theatre systems market are home theatre in a box system, soundbar, and component systems."

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by starmike

You obviously didn't read the rest of the article.

"The main products of the home theatre systems market are home theatre in a box system, soundbar, and component systems."

https://www.maximizemarketresearch.c...et-Segment.png

Honestly dude, just take the L and move on...

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

https://www.maximizemarketresearch.c...et-Segment.png

Honestly dude, just take the L and move on...

You just showed a chart with component systems going up.

Honestly dude, just take the L and move on...

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by starmike

You just showed a chart with component systems going up.

Honestly dude, just take the L and move on...

Look again. In terms of market share they are in decline. Add the tiny speakers categories together than they eclipse component systems, with the gap growing larger each year.

[Dr. T]

The Superman Atmos mix would be much more difficult to reproduce on sound bars and small speaker systems. It has a solid LFE track and wide dynamics. It'd be great if it sounded anything like the movie is supposed to sound.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

The Superman Atmos mix would be much more difficult to reproduce on sound bars and small speaker systems. It has a solid LFE track and wide dynamics. It'd be great if it sounded anything like the movie is supposed to sound.

Correct, hence the 2.0 track for poor quality soundbars. There are actually pretty excellent soundbars, too, that sound as good as box speakers - but they are quite pricy (over $1k). Hence most people don't buy those. You know that soundbars are a popular thing when even boutique high end speaker brands now produce soundbars.

The truth is, the general public doesn't actually care about the DD5.1 mix that you passionately do. They care about Atmos if they have a high end system, and if they have a low end system they care about being able to actually hear the dialogue well. Some companies like Disney have been tailoring their Atmos mix to soundbars, I have no idea if WB did that with Superman but in my experience Warner Atmos sounds pretty good.

By the way, as an eBay update from sold listings, since last weekend there have been three sales of the Superman 1-4 steelbook set at $250, $275, and $300. Meanwhile, copies of 2018 Superman 4K with the DD5.1 track don't generally sell unless they are under $30 - just to demonstrate what actually has value in reality.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Correct, hence the 2.0 track for poor quality soundbars. There are actually pretty excellent soundbars, too, that sound as good as box speakers - but they are quite pricy (over $1k). Hence most people don't buy those. You know that soundbars are a popular thing when even boutique high end speaker brands now produce soundbars.

The truth is, the general public doesn't actually care about the DD5.1 mix that you passionately do. They care about Atmos if they have a high end system, and if they have a low end system they care about being able to actually hear the dialogue well. Some companies like Disney have been tailoring their Atmos mix to soundbars, I have no idea if WB did that with Superman but in my experience Warner Atmos sounds pretty good.

By the way, as an eBay update from sold listings, since last weekend there have been three sales of the Superman 1-4 steelbook set at $250, $275, and $300. Meanwhile, copies of 2018 Superman 4K with the DD5.1 track don't generally sell unless they are under $30 - just to demonstrate what actually has value in reality.

Again, you don't explain why WB is doing this for JUST THIS TITLE. What about their OTHER title where they DON'T do this. You haven't answered that. I think this is the fourth time I'm asking.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Look again. In terms of market share they are in decline. Add the tiny speakers categories together than they eclipse component systems, with the gap growing larger each year.

Seriously, dude, what are you talking about? The blue bars for component are going UP each year in that chart.

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The truth is, the general public doesn't actually care...

That's correct. I aspire to something better than what the general public wants in this instance. But then I think most of us do at a board filled with people who collect 4K discs.

But I don't think WB cares about the soundbar/small speaker crowd either. As noted, The Richard Donner Cut only has an Atmos track and no 2.0 track. And on the Blu-rays Superman II and III only have 5.1 tracks. How will the average person hear those? On streaming, Superman: The Movie only has the Atmos track, so again, sorry soundbar/HTiB people? Your theory for the replacement doesn't hold up.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

That's correct. I aspire to something better than what the general public wants in this instance. But then I think most of us do at a board filled with people who collect 4K discs.

But I don't think WB cares about the soundbar/small speaker crowd either. As noted, The Richard Donner Cut only has an Atmos track and no 2.0 track. And on the Blu-rays Superman II and III only have 5.1 tracks. How will the average person hear those? On streaming, Superman: The Movie only has the Atmos track, so again, sorry soundbar/HTiB people? Your theory for the replacement doesn't hold up.

This. This is the inconsistency I was talking about. His statements about this soundbar BS makes no sense.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

That's correct. I aspire to something better than what the general public wants in this instance. But then I think most of us do at a board filled with people who collect 4K discs.

But I don't think WB cares about the soundbar/small speaker crowd either. As noted, The Richard Donner Cut only has an Atmos track and no 2.0 track. And on the Blu-rays Superman II and III only have 5.1 tracks. How will the average person hear those? On streaming, Superman: The Movie only has the Atmos track, so again, sorry soundbar/HTiB people? Your theory for the replacement doesn't hold up.

Originally Posted by starmike

This. This is the inconsistency I was talking about. His statements about this soundbar BS makes no sense.

OK, my explanation is BS. What are your explanations other than "reasons" or "I know better than the people doing the authoring and restoration" ?

[Dr. T]

The reason for dumping the 5.1 from Superman: The Movie? It's probably some stupid, misguided corporate policy like, "We don't use Dolby Digital for multi channel."

[starmike]

Originally Posted by Ruined

OK, my explanation is BS. What are your explanations other than "reasons" or "I know better than the people doing the authoring and restoration" ?

Simple - it was a mistake. You're making a lot out of what's possibly nothing. You don't know if this disc was farmed out to people that don't know 5.1 from mono from 2.0, do you? No, you come up with some big statement about soundbars with nothing to back up your claim.

Why would WB remove their flagship audio from one of their flagship movies? Because of SOUNDBARS? Ridiculous. No evidence to back that up. No statement from WB, with a host of other WB titles they didn't do this to.

[Yearbook]

My amateur guess to the new disc is an example of a mix of good intentions combined with ignorance of this authoring team not realizing the historical importance of this lossy 5.1 track, perhaps mistaking it as a lossy version of the 2001 mix.

WB has shown a recent inclination to provide OG audio on some catalogue releases (Poltergeist, but not Lost Boys). And since the new 2.0 track is a theatrical mix, if substandard, could be including OG audio for fans, not realizing the 5.1 is also a legacy mix. Could also act as an extension of newer releases not carrying over all the special features from previous editions.