Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by bhampton

How do you do ? .... And by that, I'm wondering how folks consume content these days if they feel like sharing.

I have 3 sources.I would prefer one gizmo to rule them all but the fact is I don't know of any one thing that does everything I like to do.

[Show spoiler]ATV4K

All things streaming, I use it for ATV+, Apple Music, iTunes, Fitness+, Disney+, Neighbor's Hulu with live TV account, Kanopy, YouTube, Netflix and Vudu. If only it supported better audio it could be my one and only gizmo.

Zidoo Z9X

My Media Server device. I have most of my content backed up on my local network. The Zidoo performs like a Kaliedscape system and adds the ability to do 3D and multi channel high res audio.

Panasonic UB9000

My disc player. With dual HDMI outputs I can get HDR10+ which my AVR doesn't support. Capable of playing most of my content directly. Also used when others show up with movies they want to see at my place. It's offline and used only for disc playback.


I play video games but not in my home theater.

I don't have any Vinyl. I can appreciate it but it's too delicate for me.

I mainly use my UBP-X700 to watch discs. Sometimes I use it as a CD player as well but I mainly use my PS3 for that. I almost never stream but if I do I just use the internal apps on my TV. Previously I used my PS3 for that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Reminds me of Quibi and we all know how well that turned out.

I commented on a post! It's a start.....

First of all, great to get a post from you!

Quibi was a huge project that failed but there are many differences here.

Glance is already established in India with 23 million viewers.

Google is backing them.

Live streaming already has a proven audience elsewhere.

Glance will be a skin over the top of Google tv, in other words it will be the very first thing people see when they buy their new tv.

Glance plan to launch globally

People already spend hours per day interacting with social media, Glance on tv would be a blending of that plus live streams.

It may take away eyeballs from traditional, long form content, that would be a disaster because under 24 age group already engage far less with tv. The last thing we need are other age groups doing the same.

I don’t have the same faith in humanity that you do Vilya.
I think given the opportunity of interacting with influencers, reality tv stars and sports stars, I can see the masses spending a lot of time in the smart tv hub.

One only has to see how popular Love Island and The Only Way Is Essex in the U.K. and the equivalent in the U.S (I’m guessing The Kardasians and America’s Next Top Model)

Edit: 400 million users which I’m guessing is whole of Asia.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Absolutely... Likely using ads more than anything else.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/202...ed-glance.html

Glance provides its services to over 400 million smartphones in the Asian market


People need to be pro active in limiting exposure to ads. It's beyond out of control.

In related news, Ofcom, our tv overseer, is considering loosening the rules about tv ads, so our broadcast and OTT apps could be about to become as lengthy as yours! The limit is 9 minutes per hour I think. It is rumoured to become 15-17 minutes per hour of programming. That’s grim.

Ofcom think it will help our U.K. services compete with Netflix, Amazon etc.. in truth, it will switch people over to those U.S streamers even more. Even if they do have ads themselves, they will be far less intrusive than 15 minutes per hour.

Also, in potential new regulations, the BBC want to hamstring Netflix by making all BBC content exclusive to them for five years (rather than the current 18 months).

If they can’t compete quality wise, play dirty in my opinion.

What a shit show!

[RefractiveIndex]

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1657022591

Playstation store removing Studio Canal films from Austrian and German accounts due to licensing issues. No offers of refunds. I wouldn't be surprised if all non-Sony titles are eventually removed since the closure of the Sony store due to the inevitable licensing issues with other studios in the future.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

http://https://www.flatpanelshd.com/...&id=1657022591

Playstation store removing Studio Canal films from Austrian and German accounts due to licensing issues. No offers of refunds. I wouldn't be surprised if all non-Sony titles are eventually removed since the closure of the Sony store due to the inevitable licensing issues with other studios in the future.

Link is not correct. flatpanelshd link here.

Same happened when Sony shut down the movie store for the FMP-X1 and FMP-X10. Some tried to get a class action going against Sony and I reminded them to read their TOS/EULA where it clearly stated that could happen and they had agreed to those terms.

[bhampton]

I’ve never lost any online content. Just kidding it happens all the time.

If you game it’s very common. One day your premium content is retired with the flip of a switch. The efficiency is alarming.

VUDU used to guarantee access for 3 years but that clause is gone.

From the linked article-

Do you really own digital movies?
The development reignites the debate around digital movie purchases and naturally lead consumers to wonder what comes next?

Will Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft and others similarly remove customers' purchased movies when the tech giants lose interest in their movie storefronts?

So far, there are no indications that they will but Sony PlayStation's decision certainly serves as a grim example. In the US, customers have some protection through digital movie locker Movies Anywhere, but no such fallback option exists internationally.

I Love how they say so far there’s no indication as if this move from Sony doesn’t exist or confirm the precedent . Then they say Movies Anywhere offers a form of protection when it most certainly does not. Every year you have to reconnect accounts to Movies Anywhere and what’s gone is gone.

[bhampton]

Forgive my double post but right after posting I got email from Meta.

See I purchased an Oculus Go before Smuckerburg bought the Oculus company and originally you did not need a Facebook account to use it. Then, you did need a Facebook account if you were a new user for initial setup.

Now, New Updates say you no longer need a Facebook account but you will need a Meta account (Does anyone else realize that Meta and Facebook is actually the same company or is this a Peter Parker/ Spiderman type thing.)

Friends tell me if you need to hide a body put it in the TOS because no one reads them but this email from Meta says I should read and review them because my use of the gizmo depends on it.

Jan 1 of next year I either join Mark Zucks idiot army or I give the oculus go to someone who will.

This is ok ... I don't really care that much about my Oculus go these days I'll probably give it to someone who doesn't hate facebook/Meta but take note them dang TOS aren't really as meaningless as some say.

-Brian

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

http://https://www.flatpanelshd.com/...&id=1657022591

Playstation store removing Studio Canal films from Austrian and German accounts due to licensing issues. No offers of refunds. I wouldn't be surprised if all non-Sony titles are eventually removed since the closure of the Sony store due to the inevitable licensing issues with other studios in the future.

Just goes to show you never really "own" anything digitally. I'm surprised they are allowed to call it a "Purchase" or "Buy" if you don't actually own it. When I buy something through iTunes, they're not really making it clear to me that I'm buying a license to use the content while the owner makes it available and it can be taken away. It's deceptive and misleading at the very least.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Just goes to show you never really "own" anything digitally. I'm surprised they are allowed to call it a "Purchase" or "Buy" if you don't actually own it. When I buy something through iTunes, they're not really making it clear to me that I'm buying a license to use the content while the owner makes it available and it can be taken away. It's deceptive and misleading at the very least.

I had some problems with iTunes and the iTunes service people will tell you directly the Content Owners can do anything with the content. And by Content Owners they were not referring to me. At all. It's been an issue for a while but folks will get away with stuff for as long as they can sometimes. They get away with it and users go along with it.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Had Hansel and Gretel Witch Hunters in my BD collection but added the UHD BD because it was on a good sale. Had not noticed the UHD version was not the extended cut so it will end up on my local library’s shelf. The studios may release different versions to disc but they can not change the versions on our shelves.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Had Hansel and Gretel Witch Hunters in my BD collection but added the UHD BD because it was on a good sale. Had not noticed the UHD version was not the extended cut so it will end up on my local library’s shelf. The studios may release different versions to disc but they can not change the versions on our shelves.

I'll take it.

I guess there's a reason I didn't upgrade my 3D BR copy to UHD apart from the 3D is really very cool.
(Come to think of it ... maybe I've never seen the extended version of Hansel ... I have to look again at this.)
(Edit- The 3D claims to have the extended version)

I was lucky to learn LifeForce was the edited version on UHD .. I was so looking forward to retiring that blu.

I would likely keep it even though there isn't a need for an edited version .... it's just lately I keep all the movies that end up here. I have sold back or gave away stuff only to end up wanting it later. I guess no one wants the edited versions if they have the extended. I also assume the extended will arrive in UHD... they are just milking it by putting out the edited one first

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Just goes to show you never really "own" anything digitally. I'm surprised they are allowed to call it a "Purchase" or "Buy" if you don't actually own it. When I buy something through iTunes, they're not really making it clear to me that I'm buying a license to use the content while the owner makes it available and it can be taken away. It's deceptive and misleading at the very least.

IIRC we have already been over that ground. iTunes TOS here. Then you have to read the TOS/EULA of each studio/content owner.

- Purchased Content will generally remain available for you to download, redownload, or otherwise access from Apple. Though it is unlikely, subsequent to your purchase, Content may be removed from the Services (for instance, because the provider removed it) and become unavailable for further download or access from Apple. To ensure your ability to continue enjoying Content, we encourage you to download all purchased Content to a device in your possession and to back it up.

Nothing I have read implies nothing more than a licensed purchase. The same goes for physical media but physical has the advantage of being covered by the First Sale Doctrine in the US.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

(Come to think of it ... maybe I've never seen the extended version of Hansel ... I have to look again at this.)
(Edit- The 3D claims to have the extended version)

When I look at the back cover it says Disc 1 - 3D Blu-ray: Theatrical Version while Disc 2 - Blu-ray Special Features include Unrated Cut. May be the reason I never procured the 3D version.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I'll take it.

I guess there's a reason I didn't upgrade my 3D BR copy to UHD apart from the 3D is really very cool.
(Come to think of it ... maybe I've never seen the extended version of Hansel ... I have to look again at this.)
(Edit- The 3D claims to have the extended version)

I was lucky to learn LifeForce was the edited version on UHD .. I was so looking forward to retiring that blu.

I would likely keep it even though there isn't a need for an edited version .... it's just lately I keep all the movies that end up here. I have sold back or gave away stuff only to end up wanting it later. I guess no one wants the edited versions if they have the extended. I also assume the extended will arrive in UHD... they are just milking it by putting out the edited one first

LIFEFORCE is my second favourite guilty pleasure after PIECES...I have no interest in the edited version so I'll stick with the bluray until it inevitably gets released in 4K...

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

IIRC we have already been over that ground. iTunes TOS here. Then you have to read the TOS/EULA of each studio/content owner.



Nothing I have read implies nothing more than a licensed purchase. The same goes for physical media but physical has the advantage of being covered by the First Sale Doctrine in the US.

Just because something is buried deep within a TOS/EULA, that doesn't make it legal or enforceable. What reasonable person would expect to sit there and read pages upon pages of that agreement? It's deceptive and misleading at best.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Just because something is buried deep within a TOS/EULA, that doesn't make it legal or enforceable. What reasonable person would expect to sit there and read pages upon pages of that agreement? It's deceptive and misleading at best.

That's how TOS/EULA work and they are binding. It's there for anyone to read at their leisure, as well. It's like when people ***** and moan about "I do not give permission to this and that social media platform to share my information with third parties," etc. By signing up to said platform you agree to the TOS/EULA.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

That's how TOS/EULA work and they are binding. It's there for anyone to read at their leisure, as well. It's like when people ***** and moan about "I do not give permission to this and that social media platform to share my information with third parties," etc. By signing up to said platform you agree to the TOS/EULA.

https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/u...ense-agreement

EULAs are not legally binding . When a consumer agrees to the terms specified in the license agreement, they are actually renting or purchasing a license from the vendor. The downside of a license agreement is that it doesn't protect the consumer. The EULA protects only the copyright owner.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Just because something is buried deep within a TOS/EULA, that doesn't make it legal or enforceable. What reasonable person would expect to sit there and read pages upon pages of that agreement? It's deceptive and misleading at best.

That is just your viewpoint. I have none on the matter. I do know that you agreed to the TOS/EULA so you have no reason to complain.

Are you a licensed attorney? If not then you may want to have one explain the TOS/EULA to you. Furthermore, you agreed the TOS/EULA could be changed in part or in whole and without prior notice. It is easy, no one is forcing you to agree to those TOS/EULA, you are doing it of your free will. Don't like them then don't agree with them.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

LIFEFORCE is my second favourite guilty pleasure after PIECES...I have no interest in the edited version so I'll stick with the bluray until it inevitably gets released in 4K...

I'm going to pay even closer attention to disc specs in the future. Almost ordered the UHD BD of Lifeforce but noticed the difference in running time, forgot to do that with Hansel and Gretel Witch Hunters.

[Vilya]

On September 10, 2010 the UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT ruled that EULAs were enforceable.

https://www.osnews.com/story/23794/u...uch-all-of-us/

Actual pdf of court ruling:

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto...0/09-35969.pdf

"We determine that Autodesk’s direct customers are licensees of their copies of the software rather than owners, which has two ramifications. Because Vernor did not purchase the Release 14 copies from an owner, he may not invoke the first sale doctrine, and he also may not assert an essential step defense on behalf of his customers."

Also, Terms of Service and EULAs are not the same thing, but both are enforceable:

"An end-user license agreement, also known as a EULA, is the contract established between the licensor and the licensee of a product. The licensee likely thinks of themselves as a purchaser, but the EULA establishes their right to use a piece of proprietary software as a license – not ownership."

"Terms of service (TOS), also known as terms of use or terms and conditions, is a contract established between a company and a user that defines the rules by which a user must abide by in order to use a service. It’s the foundational contract between a service provider and a user."

https://odinlaw.com/the-differences-...a-tos-and-sla/

Common sense alone should tell us that giant companies like Apple, Google, Amazon and others have legions of lawyers at their disposal to craft legally enforceable Terms of Service and EULAs. If these were not legally binding, what value would they have and why would companies like those I named use them? They use TOS and EULAs because they are enforceable.

As for digital purchases, when you buy "air" don't be surprised if it blows away someday. I think of my digital titles as just long term leases of unknown duration.

That's all the wind in my sails for today. Carry on.