From the Earth to the Moon

[Pondo]

Got it last night only to find out the digital copy is only for VUDU? damn

anyone with an iTunes one wants to trade?

[Lensman]

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

Wait... they replaced model work with CGI for this release? I thought they just replaced old CGI that was rendered in SD resolution. If they actually replaced models then that’s super lame.

Excellent model work replaced by very poor CGI and the original SFX team uncredited.

We wanted:
A 4:3 HD release with no changes and upscaled SFX.

We got:
A 16:9 top/bottom cropped re-composed presentation with cutscene quality CGI made by people who had the spacecraft described to them over the phone.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lensman

Excellent model work replaced by very poor CGI and the original SFX team uncredited.

We wanted:
A 4:3 HD release with no changes and upscaled SFX.

We got:
A 16:9 top/bottom cropped re-composed presentation with cutscene quality CGI made by people who had the spacecraft described to them over the phone.

Speaking for everyone I see with all of this "we" nonsense.

The new 1.78 ratio looks very nice; in no way does it ruin the presentation.

The CGI could have been done better, but it is nowhere near to being the disaster that you make it out to be. Someone watching this blu-ray with an open mind would likely find little to nothing to complain about.

I do agree that removing the original effects crew's names from the credits was shameful.

As this release has received mixed reviews, from those who have actually seen it and from those who have not alike, I can only stress that people should find a way to watch it for themselves and make up their own mind. Rent it, borrow it, or even gamble that whopping $23 and buy it- if you wind up hating it give it away, resell it, return it due to "defects" in workmanship, or burn it at the stake as you see fit.

I am happy with this release; it offers more than it gets credit for and its faults, and it does have them, are often exaggerated.

[captveg]

I watched all episodes on the new Blu-ray last week. I found a handful of effects shots to be poorer than others, but generally enjoyed my viewing quite a lot. I have little to complain about myself. An original presentation option would have been nice, but neither the AR or the effects bothered me enough to worry much about it.

Just my feelings about it.

[TazerMonkey]

I just finished watching this on Blu-ray. It's probably been 20 years since I last watched the original 4:3 DVD release, which I don't have access to anymore so I'm limited to comparisons via the screenshots and clips online, but I think the review on this site is more than fair and the scores are accurate. It's not a perfect release, but the good outweighs the bad and I greatly enjoyed my viewing over the course of a few days.

I'm glad the show itself lived up to my memories of it and I would hope that the vocal negativity won't prevent people from giving the show another viewing.

[KC-Technerd]

During MARE TRANQUILITATIS a lady, obviously during a press interview, states "It will be a revelation to all mankind, that uh, the universe and the creation is so much greater than anybody ever realized." This is presented in the episode a being a random person. I've never located the original interview this was taken from. However in the years since originally viewing the episode I've found that the lady strongly resembles (both in looks and voice) someone of considerable significance. I won't spoil it by saying who, but I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing, or has confirmed who she is.

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

My impression is that there may not be original 35mm vfx elements for FTETTM, at least in many cases. It became evident to me watching the Signature Edition (16x9 DVD) that many of the VFX shots have some video glitches, that were present but not quite so obvious on the original 4x3 version. These look like horizontally displaced video scan lines. One of these remains on the Blu-ray in the "1968" episode during the TLI scene that concludes with the view of the moon through the CM hatch window, above Lovell's head. My impression, which could be wrong, is that these vfx were made directly to 480i (or some SD resolution) video and not captured on film. (At least with not all of the elements captured on film. In the case with the TLI scene I mentioned, it is obviously a mix of VFX with a live action shot, and the live action was probably captured on film.)

As I recall, the 8 month miniature shoot was mostly about shooting spacecraft models via motion control, plus some shooting (I think by an outside vendor) of the LLRV against real blue sky. So except for a small number of ship shots that were CG, nearly all the 'hero' elements are miniatures, photographed by DP Tony Cutrono under the supervision of Ernie Farino (I may be light on some details because I apparently lost my last copy of the CINEFEX piece I wrote on this.)

I think that the Mercury flight with Shepherd was just CG, as they could not amortize miniature costs over multiple shots for that one. Am pretty sure some of the tumbling Gemini/Agena shots were CG as well, not just because they look bad but because the spinning would be hard to accomplish on a mo-con mount. And the closeup of an astronaut riding the Agena (end of ep1 maybe?) is a mix of techniques, where they shot a stuntman on an Agena stand-in and then replaced him with a CG figure with the big reflection in faceplate.

So if you're seeing a view out the window of the moon and/or stars, that is almost certainly just CG, and therefore would be an SD element rather than a 35mm film element like the ship models that more than stand up to blu-ray or 4K scrutiny.

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by TazerMonkey

I just finished watching this on Blu-ray. It's probably been 20 years since I last watched the original 4:3 DVD release, which I don't have access to anymore so I'm limited to comparisons via the screenshots and clips online, but I think the review on this site is more than fair and the scores are accurate. It's not a perfect release, but the good outweighs the bad and I greatly enjoyed my viewing over the course of a few days.

I'm glad the show itself lived up to my memories of it and I would hope that the vocal negativity won't prevent people from giving the show another viewing.

I don't think anybody advocating for the original vfx elements has suggested people shouldn't watch the series (i was planning another rewatch, turns out it will be the DVD instead of the blu), just that the DVD is an option and represents an honest accounting of the work done on the show. We're choosing not to contribute to the coffers on this because it is a downgrade and/or because it is wrong to tamper this way. I'm sure somebody's estate would raise holy hell is they painted the falling sparks out of the FLASH GORDON serials too, even though they need it desperately, but here, you have good to excellent work discarded for no reason at all outside of cheapness and laziness and trendiness.

[KMFDMvsEnya]

Watching the series was an enjoyable experience which I haven't revisited in quite a few years and glad that HBO did this remaster.

The vast majority of the filmed footage looks pretty good, in spite of unnecessary DNR, and the various instances of upscaled footage is adequate and serviceable. Considering the footage was potentially lost due to misplacement or deterioration, one just has to make due with what is available.

Most of the new VFX looks fine to me and without direct reference I did not observe the discrepancies that have been demonstrated in some frame captures. Whether some of the logistical differences such as different orientations of the models was due to negligence or corrections, we have no way of knowing until something official is stated. I think perhaps some of the perceived qualitative differences maybe attributable to the color grading.

Speaking of which, the color grading I find to be a bit of a mixed bag. Overall it seems to be an improvement to the original SD transfers but I dislike how the highlights are rendered which maybe attributable to replicating a certain look like older uncalibrated CRTS or such. Anyway, I find it annoying and prefer watching the show with some ambient lighting. Colors are pretty good but sometimes facial complexions can get rather overly ruddy, perhaps due to the DNR or the grade, or rather there is less gradation in the color tones in the faces. It is not always the case but it happens.

The DNR annoys to me no end and wish they had not deployed it to the degree they did. Frak that.

On whether this is a worthwhile release, in spite of some shortcomings, I am an emphatic yes; especially when factoring the realities that legacy content being remastered and being released on a physical media is becoming more sparse and less likely.

The reality is this blu-ray release is a niche product and will not be moving units like the newest Marvel title or Apollo 13 for that matter and that should be a consideration on whether one chooses to support the release of older titles, as imperfect as they may be.

Unless there is a coordinated public critic about various concerns an undefined "No Purchase" protest just reads as low sales and indicates even more to the powers that be that there is little interest in catalog remasters and catalog releases on physical media. Resulting in less physical releases, less remastered catalog titles, and more exclusive downloads and streams.

As much as I found streaming media convenient and moderately adequate alternative to the rental stores of yore, I make it a point to purchase actual physical media for what I enjoy and especially for catalog titles because digital downloads are ephemeral and currently are inferior quality to well encoded discs.

YMMV.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by trevanian

I don't think anybody advocating for the original vfx elements has suggested people shouldn't watch the series (i was planning another rewatch, turns out it will be the DVD instead of the blu), just that the DVD is an option and represents an honest accounting of the work done on the show. We're choosing not to contribute to the coffers on this because it is a downgrade and/or because it is wrong to tamper this way. I'm sure somebody's estate would raise holy hell is they painted the falling sparks out of the FLASH GORDON serials too, even though they need it desperately, but here, you have good to excellent work discarded for no reason at all outside of cheapness and laziness and trendiness.

Another self-appointed spokesman for all of us or at least for all of those who passed on this release. Even I am not so conceited as to use "we" when I know I can only rightly speak for myself.

You are entitled to your opinion and to whatever decision you make about buying this release, but the only message that you are likely sending to HBO is that there is little demand for physical media, especially for older catalog titles. They certainly won't know why you did not buy it. If the sales for this release are bad, HBO will almost certainly conclude that it is because there are few people left who want physical media and not because a few videophiles and purists were displeased.

I am not saying that anyone should buy something that they really feel is a bad product, but just don't be naive and assume that the content owner will know why you didn't buy it; they will draw their own conclusions and those will likely be that poor sales = little demand. Poor sales discourage future releases including any likelihood that this title will ever be revisited.

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Another self-appointed spokesman for all of us or at least for all of those who passed on this release. Even I am not so conceited as to use "we" when I know I can only rightly speak for myself.

You are entitled to your opinion and to whatever decision you make about buying this release, but the only message that you are likely sending to HBO is that there is little demand for physical media, especially for older catalog titles. They certainly won't know why you did not buy it. If the sales for this release are bad, HBO will almost certainly conclude that it is because there are few people left who want physical media and not because a few videophiles and purists were displeased.

I am not saying that anyone should buy something that they really feel is a bad product, but just don't be naive and assume that the content owner will know why you didn't buy it; they will draw their own conclusions and those will likely be that poor sales = little demand. Poor sales discourage future releases including any likelihood that this title will ever be revisited.

Well, HBO would know my reasons if I could find an outlet interested in this story. Really would like to talk with Cutrono and Farino -- maybe even Hanks, who I haven't seen talking this up at all -- as well as some folks who worked on the original STAR WARS who I recall back in the 90s weren't too thrilled with GL reworking some of their stuff (not that he took their names off the credits or in any way slighted their work.) Response thus far has been extremely discouraging, so it is likely that your perception will prove correct. But I'm still not buying this thing.

Didn't think the 'we' was editorializing or grandstanding, but obviously it sounded pompous to you, so for that I apologize.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You are entitled to your opinion and to whatever decision you make about buying this release, but the only message that you are likely sending to HBO is that there is little demand for physical media, especially for older catalog titles. They certainly won't know why you did not buy it. If the sales for this release are bad, HBO will almost certainly conclude that it is because there are few people left who want physical media and not because a few videophiles and purists were displeased.

Yet you overlook the fact that if it does get a higher than expected amount of sales then HBO will conclude that quality control doesn't matter, as suckers the general pubic will buy their releases even if they have butchered special effects and exceedingly substandard video encoding, not to mention needlessly modifying the original work's aspect ratio to appeal to mouth-breathers who can't stand not having their screen 100% filled.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by svenge

Yet you overlook the fact that if it does get a higher than expected amount of sales then HBO will conclude that quality control doesn't matter, as suckers the general pubic will buy their releases even if they have butchered special effects and exceedingly substandard video encoding, not to mention needlessly modifying the original work's aspect ratio to appeal to mouth-breathers who can't stand not having their screen 100% filled.

You grossly exaggerate its deficiencies, but if you really feel that strongly about it then stick with the dvd. Personally, I agree with the blu-ray.com review that gives the video a score of 3.5/ 5. This release is really much more of a glass half-full situation than a half-empty one just like the reviewer states.

If you want to call me a mouth-breather and a sucker for buying this release, then go ahead; it won't lessen my satisfaction one bit. Using both slurs in the plural is uncalled for as the others who like this release have done nothing to deserve your vitriol. I could just as easily call its harsher critics anal retentive elitist snobs who nit pick every part of every release like a bunch of joyless nerds, but I would not do such a thing.

A quick glance at my collection will show that I have lots of titles that are presented in academy ratio; I do not require that my screen be filled.

Conversely, if it sells well they might revisit it someday and give it a new remaster, maybe for a 4K release if we are super lucky, that addresses the issues that are of concern to some of you. If it doesn't sell well, they might just shelve it along with other projects, too. Strong sales encourage more releases; boycotts do the opposite.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by trevanian

Didn't think the 'we' was editorializing or grandstanding, but obviously it sounded pompous to you, so for that I apologize.

No need to apologize, really, but a kind gesture just the same.

It was not so much "pompous" as just presumptuous; you were the second person to use "we" like they were speaking for everyone in a short span of time. It is a common human foible to think that our individual perceptions, reactions, and opinions are those of everyone else or at least those of our peers.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If you want to call me a mouth-breather and a sucker for buying this release, then go ahead; it won't lessen my satisfaction one bit. Using both slurs in the plural is uncalled for as the others who like this release have done nothing to deserve your vitriol.

I did not intend to insult you (or any other individual in this thread), but merely outline the potential thought process of those behind this particular release. My apologies for not making that clear enough.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by svenge

I did not intend to insult you (or any other individual in this thread), but merely outline the potential thought process of those behind this particular release. My apologies for not making that clear enough.

I am not easily offended, so no need to apologize to me. Gracious of you to offer though just like with trevanian.

However, implying that those who buy and enjoy this release are mouth breathers and suckers can easily be construed as an attempt to insult someone. When slurs are used, someone is bound to think that you mean them.

[Zod5000]

I am also enjoying this. I'm not the biggest hater of 4:3 to 16:9 conversions. Usually only where it's done poorly does it bug me. On the flip side if it's done decent enough I do like that it takes up the entire screen.

My only detractor on the set was some of the new CGI looked cheap and out of place. For the most part it was decent enough, but a few shots were not so great.

If it's a choice between watching the DVD vs the Bluray. I'd take the bluray any time. I have a hard time watching things in SD Sort of like when I was a kid and trying to watch b&w in a world of color.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You grossly exaggerate its deficiencies, but if you really feel that strongly about it then stick with the dvd. Personally, I agree with the blu-ray.com review that gives the video a score of 3.5/ 5. This release is really much more of a glass half-full situation than a half-empty one just like the reviewer states.

If you want to call me a mouth-breather and a sucker for buying this release, then go ahead; it won't lessen my satisfaction one bit. Using both slurs in the plural is uncalled for as the others who like this release have done nothing to deserve your vitriol. I could just as easily call its harsher critics anal retentive elitist snobs who nit pick every part of every release like a bunch of joyless nerds, but I would not do such a thing.

A quick glance at my collection will show that I have lots of titles that are presented in academy ratio; I do not require that my screen be filled.

Conversely, if it sells well they might revisit it someday and give it a new remaster, maybe for a 4K release if we are super lucky, that addresses the issues that are of concern to some of you. If it doesn't sell well, they might just shelve it along with other projects, too. Strong sales encourage more releases; boycotts do the opposite.

They remastered this release in 4K with HDR so if they ever decided to put it out in UHD I am certain it would be this version with no further tweaks.

[trevanian]

Final nail in that coffin then.

[Vader47000]

Originally Posted by svenge

Yet you overlook the fact that if it does get a higher than expected amount of sales then HBO will conclude that quality control doesn't matter, as suckers the general pubic will buy their releases even if they have butchered special effects and exceedingly substandard video encoding, not to mention needlessly modifying the original work's aspect ratio to appeal to mouth-breathers who can't stand not having their screen 100% filled.

HBO is on the verge of abandoning physical media already.

They are pretty much down to just 1 Blu-ray/DVD per month, if any, and typically it's only for really major stuff like Game of Thrones, or perhaps third party series for which they have contractual obligations. Shows like Veep and Silicon Valley once upon a time received Blu-ray releases, then were DVD only. The final season of Veep has yet to receive an announced DVD release despite the digital download being sold almost immediately upon the finale airing.

But you've definitely identified the Catch 22 of physical media vs studio incompetence. When they put out a crappy product and it doesn't sell, they assume the medium is dying, and if it does sell, they assume it's because they did a decent job. And any complaints they hear from fans about it they just dismiss as hypersensitive trolls who nitpick everything anyway. It really takes a creator-driven approach to fix major studio QC errors, and there just aren't that many tech-savvy producers and directors who both know what the product should look like and are willing to devote the time to overseeing the process.