Death Wish 4K UHD (1974)

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by Jackal80

Batman is a vigilante, Paul Kersey in the Death Wish films kills people in cold blood, especially in the first two films. Kersey is a serial killer like Dexter.

He is absolutely not a serial killer. He is the very definition of a vigilante. He was wronged by a group of thugs/criminals, the legal system fails him and as a result he takes matters into his own hands. He doesn't kill for the thrill of it, or for any kind of sexual gratification. Serial killers also can't control their urges and kill INNOCENT people. Paul Kersey does no such thing.

He does not fit the definition of a serial killer in any way, shape or form.

[elecrofunk]

Originally Posted by Matt89

He is absolutely not a serial killer. He is the very definition of a vigilante. He was wronged by a group of thugs/criminals, the legal system fails him and as a result he takes matters into his own hands. He doesn't kill for the thrill of it, or for any kind of sexual gratification. Serial killers also can't control their urges and kill INNOCENT people. Paul Kersey does no such thing.

He does not fit the definition of a serial killer in any way, shape or form.

The only way I could argue with that is by saying that he kills people who have not been tried by due legal process yet

[Matt89]

Yeah, because the legal system fails to bring the perpetrators to justice. That's....kind of the point. If the people who attacked his family WERE tried and the legal process worked the way it should've, he would not have become a vigilante.

[DaylightsEnd]

Originally Posted by elecrofunk

The only way I could argue with that is by saying that he kills people who have not been tried by due legal process yet

Then all of the superheros are serial killers. Judge Dredd better get a good lawyer. Better yet, they need to stay out of California where folks would put them in prison for taking out the bad guys. How dare you defend yourself or others with lethal force against deadly assailants armed with firearms and huge knives, the same people that are actively breaking into peoples' homes and murdering their families. Clearly, only deranged serial killers would do that, when you could instead just defend the murdering criminals to make sure they're allowed to keep it up.

Jeffrey Dahmer - Serial Killer
Paul Kersey - Vigilante
Batman - silly guy in fake rubber suit

[dcx4610]

For the first movie at least, Paul only kills in self defense and one time when he saw someone else being mugged. Also, all of them either pulled a knife or gun on him.

That's not to condone what he did but that's the interesting question the movie asks. Is murder murder or is vigilante justice acceptable? Is it OK to fight back when the system fails?

It started off as revenge but you do kinda get the impression that he likes what he's doing after awhile. He's definitely on the verge of becoming a serial killer - just against criminals.

He's different from Batman because Batman thinks if he actually kills his victims, he's no better than the criminal. Paul goes the next step and likes it. He's definitely on the edge.

All of that said, even the police in the movie know what he's doing is a positive to the the crime rate in the city. It inspired the residents to fight back and the crime rate was lowered. Even when they caught him, they acted like the vigilante was still out there to keep the fear of him out there to criminals.

Just a really interesting movie across the board and a good philosophical discussion.

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by Matt89

He is absolutely not a serial killer. He is the very definition of a vigilante. He was wronged by a group of thugs/criminals, the legal system fails him and as a result he takes matters into his own hands. He doesn't kill for the thrill of it, or for any kind of sexual gratification. Serial killers also can't control their urges and kill INNOCENT people. Paul Kersey does no such thing.

He does not fit the definition of a serial killer in any way, shape or form.

See my post above but I do think he's close to becoming a serial killer. He DOES kill for the thrill of it. The first time he does it, he just wanted revenge. It got him physically ill. After, he became addicted to it. He literally went out looking for trouble. Going in the subway, walking in the park at dark. He wanted someone to mug him so he could kill them.

There was even a scene with his daughter's husband where Paul is in a great mood after killing. He painted his apartment cheery colors and his life was back to normal. He had a purpose and he was going to continue to kill.

He's certainly a vigilante but he is slowing turning into something darker. You get the impression that when he got inured in his last adventure that it was the end of it for him and he got it out of his system. Then when he gets transferred to Chicago, you see he still has it in him and he's going to continue thrill killing.

The basic definition of a serial killer is "A serial killer is typically a person who murders three or more persons". He's certainly that. He didn't start off that way, it's just something he's turning into

He's taking his pain and vengeance out on other criminals that have nothing to do with his wife and daughter. In that sense, he's definitely like Batman. Nothing he does will bring back his wife and daughter (or Batman's parents). It's just therapy for him.

[Ellum]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Oh, and as usual the reviewer got the subtitle info wrong as he always does for Kino releases, and specifies it as English SDH when it’s in fact regular English on all Kino 4K BDs.

Actually he is right about this one having SDH subtitles. However, they are not as "intrusive" as they can be in some cases.

[buck135]

Originally Posted by Matt89

Serial killers also can't control their urges and kill INNOCENT people.

This sentence caused a certain speech to spring to my mind...

"Only in a world this sh*&ty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face. But that's the point. We see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it."

[Warm Gun]

Liked it. More credible than the exploitation movie I expected for so long. I believed the characterization. How he became that murdering vigilante and why. Story took its time with that. Even kind of believed how the police reacted eventually. Found that humorous. Wish it wasn't scored by Herbie Hancock. He was too funky in those years for a movie like this. Made the movie feel sleezier than it should have.

[Jacques Souvenir]

Originally Posted by DaylightsEnd

Fixed that for ya, sport.

Which is like arguing the difference between coke/pepsi, but ok...

[dcx4610]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Liked it. More credible than the exploitation movie I expected for so long. I believed the characterization. How he became that murdering vigilante and why. Story took its time with that. Even kind of believed how the police reacted eventually. Found that humorous. Wish it wasn't scored by Herbie Hancock. He was too funky in those years for a movie like this. Made the movie feel sleezier than it should have.

Totally agree about the music. That's really the only flaw I have with the movie. The 70s funk just makes it kinda cheesy and sleazy. Imagine some classy/emotional strings or even some early synth work.

I was just thinking last night how much the last shot in the movie needed a deep and dark synthesizer hit or a dark piano chord.

[grahams76]

Keep the hot takes coming about the score, which is easily one of the film’s strongest assets. Makes the film “too sleazy”?! And it’s filled with early synths, which Hancock was a pioneer of.

[HDMan72]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

Totally agree about the music. That's really the only flaw I have with the movie. The 70s funk just makes it kinda cheesy and sleazy. Imagine some classy/emotional strings or even some early synth work.

I was just thinking last night how much the last shot in the movie needed a deep and dark synthesizer hit or a dark piano chord.

Imagine if it had a score like Lalo Schifrin's Dirty Harry.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by Ellum

Actually he is right about this one having SDH subtitles. However, they are not as "intrusive" as they can be in some cases.

Ok, that’s unusual for a Kino 4K BD. What kind of SDH text do the subtitles contain, since you say they are not so ”intrusive”?

[GasmaskAvenger]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

[Show spoiler]For the first movie at least, Paul only kills in self defense and one time when he saw someone else being mugged. Also, all of them either pulled a knife or gun on him.

That's not to condone what he did but that's the interesting question the movie asks. Is murder murder or is vigilante justice acceptable? Is it OK to fight back when the system fails?

It started off as revenge but you do kinda get the impression that he likes what he's doing after awhile. He's definitely on the verge of becoming a serial killer - just against criminals.

He's different from Batman because Batman thinks if he actually kills his victims, he's no better than the criminal. Paul goes the next step and likes it. He's definitely on the edge.

All of that said, even the police in the movie know what he's doing is a positive to the the crime rate in the city. It inspired the residents to fight back and the crime rate was lowered. Even when they caught him, they acted like the vigilante was still out there to keep the fear of him out there to criminals.

Just a really interesting movie across the board and a good philosophical discussion.

the first sequel KINDA tries to stay in the spirit of the first film, but is way more invested in the muck and grue, so the message is much more intensely muddled.

then Death Wish 3 happens and Kersey is pretty much full blown Punisher going forward.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Liked it. More credible than the exploitation movie I expected for so long. I believed the characterization. How he became that murdering vigilante and why. Story took its time with that. Even kind of believed how the police reacted eventually. Found that humorous. Wish it wasn't scored by Herbie Hancock. He was too funky in those years for a movie like this. Made the movie feel sleezier than it should have.

Disagree about the score as I think it's one of the film's strongest attributes, but glad you enjoyed the film. I think the first one is absolutely the best film in the franchise, the sequels are more "exploitation" but IMO still fun and still worth a watch. DWII got a UHD from VS last year and Scorpion put out a nice 2K remaster of DWIII back in 2020 but they're very different in tone when compared to the first film. The sequels (aside from part 5) were Cannon productions, after all. So, if you do plan on checking them out just keep that in mind lol.

[Ellum]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Ok, that’s unusual for a Kino 4K BD. What kind of SDH text do the subtitles contain, since you say they are not so ”intrusive”?

Well, the comparison might not be super valid, but I just came from watching The Green Knight where every sound and piece of music was described, constantly - and I mean constantly with no breaks. It became way to distracting to me.

In Death Wish it's more "normal" like [Camera shutter clicking], [Cars honking] etc, but only mentioned briefly and not repetitive.

As a sidenote The Italian Job has regular English subtitles.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by Ellum

Well, the comparison might not be super valid, but I just came from watching The Green Knight where every sound and piece of music was described, constantly - and I mean constantly with no breaks. It became way to distracting to me.

In Death Wish it's more "normal" like [Camera shutter clicking], [Cars honking] etc, but only mentioned briefly and not repetitive.

As a sidenote The Italian Job has regular English subtitles.

Thanks for clarifying.

The problem is that in most cases the Kino 4K BDs have regular English subtitles, but in the blu-ray.com reviews by Svet he sets it to English SDH anyway and in the blu-ray.com movie specs database too. I assume he is not even checking what it contains and just sets that by default.

Then there are a few exceptions like Death Wish, where it actually is English SDH. And that is even though the specs from Kino say "Optional English subtitles" and do not mention that it's English SDH. So one cannot rely 100% on the specifications provided by Kino either, or assume that it always is regular English subtitles.

It would be nice if the subtitle info in the blu-ray.com movie specs database was actually checked and set correctly, so it could be trusted. Because personally I find English SDH subtitles too annoying (for the reasons you also mentioned), so I do not want to buy movies if they only have that.

[dcx4610]

Just to throw more evidence on the Paul Kersey serial killer angle...

The writer of the novel was appalled at the first movie and especially the 2nd. He said they turned Paul into a hero when the idea of the novel was that he was turning into a very sick man and on-par with the criminals he was killing.

I personally thought they came across well in the first movie but in part 2, yeah - he's pretty much a heroic vigilante.

[Sky_Captain]

I'm sure he was tickled pink by Death Sentence, which is basically a cartoon.