Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So now we have to setup our HT Efficiently. So which one wins out, Streaming or Physical Media? IMO Streaming will win because Physical Media has more Power Hungry Devices. With an Android UHD TV nothing else is needed!

Do you take your data and statistics out of thin air? That’s not true at all.

Yes streaming will win but it has nothing to do with power consumption and everything to do with people who don’t care about quality and/or streaming exclusives.

As for me I will keep getting whatever the best available and/or I can afford. I rent using Kaleidescape, buy discs, and watch stream-exclusive contents.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So now we have to setup our HT Efficiently.

No, we have to set up our whole living quarters efficiently. In the past I have posted my power usage and my power company list mine a little above a energy efficient home, we do not have solar panels. Have 15.2 SEER A/C (two), 97% efficient gas furnaces, most lighting is LED, R19 insulation, etc.

Most here would not qualify a smart TV as a home theater, it is just that, a TV.

[Warm Gun]

Been a while since I've imported from Germany.



The Children's Hour is out of print in America. Already have Melancholia, but haven't seen the Director's Cut of Nymphomaniac or the other Lars von Trier movies there. Howard's End is said to have burned in German titles for the locations and stuff, unfortunately. I'm told M is more complete than the Criterion version. I don't expect that Roman Polanski movie to be released in America. Don't know if there are any other Fassbinder movies or shows I'll buy after 13 Moons. Collection's pretty good now.

There was other stuff I had on my German Amazon wishlist for so long that it's no longer available.

[bhampton]

I know some people in UK afraid to turn on the heater because of the coming bills that they don't happen to have extra money for.

One of the nicest things about the Solar system at my home is the real time metering of energy use of the whole house available on my watch.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

No, we have to set up our whole living quarters efficiently. In the past I have posted my power usage and my power company list mine a little above a energy efficient home, we do not have solar panels. Have 15.2 SEER A/C (two), 97% efficient gas furnaces, most lighting is LED, R19 insulation, etc.

Most here would not qualify a smart TV as a home theater, it is just that, a TV.

Yup! Even before I had my projection system, I always referred my TV-based “theatre” as “TV area” or “viewing area”. Theatre requires projection, period. And it has nothing to do with being an elitist and/or being a gate keeper.

[Vilya]

So if alchav had a projector, instead of just a TV, and a pair of headphones that would meet your definition of having a home theater?

Some one with a 146" Samsung The Wall display (available up to 292") would also not have a home theater by your definition simply because their display was "direct view" and not a projected image?

You do sound elitist at worst, arbitrary at best, and entirely wrong either way.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I know some people in UK afraid to turn on the heater because of the coming bills that they don't happen to have extra money for.

One of the nicest things about the Solar system at my home is the real time metering of energy use of the whole house available on my watch.

Hopefully some good news on that front (U.K.) on Thursday. It’s expected to be a price freeze at £2,500 (£2,100 essentially because of the one off £450 subsidy every household is getting)

A huge sigh of relief if true as we face £6,500 a year by Spring next year.

Of course, we will be paying for it in taxes or extra charges when the two years is up but it will save lives.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

So if alchav had a projector, instead of just a TV, and a pair of headphones that would meet your definition of having a home theater?

Some one with a 146" Samsung The Wall display (available up to 292") would also not have a home theater by your definition simply because their display was "direct view" and not a projected image?

You do sound elitist at worst, arbitrary at best, and entirely wrong either way.

I’m with Sapiendut on this one. HT=projected image.

Hope you are feeling well by the way.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

So if alchav had a projector, instead of just a TV, and a pair of headphones that would meet your definition of having a home theater?

Some one with a 146" Samsung The Wall display (available up to 292") would also not have a home theater by your definition simply because their display was "direct view" and not a projected image?

You do sound elitist at worst, arbitrary at best, and entirely wrong either way.

LOL. No. But we are not talking about sound at the moment. We are talking about display right now. So yeah. Projector only. Even if you have a microLED display (which two of my overseas clients have) I still won’t call it “theatre”.

Home theatre is to emulate a theatre experience. So as long as the actual theatres are using projector, if you don’t use a projector then you are not emulating a theatre.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I’m with Sapiendut on this one. HT=projected image.

Hope you are feeling well by the way.

Then you are, at best, as arbitrary as he is.

By both of your "logic" all he would need to do is get a cheap $500 projector and aim it at a wall, plug in his headphones, and viola! Instant home theater!

Either a projector or a direct view display can be the centerpiece of a home theater. Direct view displays can take advantage of Dolby Vision; last I checked no projector can yet do so.

I am doing better, thank you for asking, but I still have the Covid cough from time to time. My weight loss problem worsened during my illness, but hopefully it stabilizes soon.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

LOL. No. But we are not talking about sound at the moment. We are talking about display right now. So yeah. Projector only. Even if you have a microLED display (which two of my overseas clients have) I still won’t call it “theatre”.

Home theatre is to emulate a theatre experience. So as long as the actual theatres are using projector, if you don’t use a projector then you are not emulating a theatre.

How the image is displayed should not matter, only the quality of it. Direct view displays have advantages that no projector can offer.

In the strictest and most basic sense, a theater is simply a place where a performance is observed. Whether that is a live stage production or watching a motion picture really does not matter. Theaters are where performances are enjoyed.

What emulates the movie theater experience is having a high quality large display and a great immersive surround sound system in one's own home. Whether that high quality image comes from a projector or a direct view display does not matter.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Either a projector or a direct view display can be the centerpiece of a home theater. Direct view displays can take advantage of Dolby Vision; last I checked no projector can yet do so.

Turns out a Zidoo Z9X player can decode Dolby Vision and pass it to my projector which is not natively supporting DV. I was just watching Sonic 2 with it earlier. It really looked amazing.

[Vilya]

Incidentally, Sony and Samsung both have experimented with direct view screens in commercial movie theater applications. This article is from 2018, but it shows that it is a possibility for the future.

"Samsung became the early proponent of cinema LED when it held private demonstrations at CinemaCon in March 2017. The cinema industry was stunned by the speed with which the South Korean electronics major won DCI certification in May 2017 and installed the first unit with Lotte in Seoul last July. Eight sites have since been installed or announced, including in China, Europe and the US.

The price tag of around $750,000 (including screen, audio and install) is still the biggest block to widescale adoption. The second is that the screen only comes in the size of 10.3m for the 4K version. Yet the promises of more than 100,000 hours’ lifespan means that, according to integrators, cinemas are seriously weighing it up as an alternative to laser projection."

https://www.cinematech.today/index.p...he-real-world/

A newer 2022 article titled:

HDR LED walls are superior to projection, so why aren't cinemas using them?

"This discussion comes at a time when theatrical exhibition is increasingly looking toward direct-view displays – that is, LED video walls – to replace projection."

"projected cinema HDR struggles to maintain black level. Light directed at the screen is diffuse-reflected into the environment and bounce off anything it can find, particularly if the guy in the front row is wearing a white shirt, and perhaps return to the screen to contaminate blacks. LEDs can do better here, since systems such as Sony's CLEDIS are designed to have deep black coatings on every part of the display that isn't an LED emitter. An inactive CLEDIS looks like a hole in reality."

https://www.redsharknews.com/hdr-led...mas-using-them

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Vilya

In the strictest and most basic sense, a theater is simply a place where a performance is observed. Whether that is a live stage production or watching a motion picture really does not matter. Theaters are where performances are enjoyed.

What emulates the movie theater experience is having a high quality large display and a great immersive surround sound system in one's own home. Whether that high quality image comes from a projector or a direct view display does not matter.

Respectful-but-hard disagree on that point. To me, there is a definite, intangible, primal difference between watching a projected image reflected across a white screen (or other color, YMMV) and watching millions of glowing pixels pulsing at me. It just "feels" fundamentally different; like a "real movie". I know this is unscientific and very subjective, but... well... that's my undeniable experience.

EDIT: I concede that part of this "intangible, unscientific" feeling I have has a GREAT DEAL to do with knowing before-hand what method of display I'm experiencing. What I mean is: in a blind taste test, I may not "feel" any differently about direct-view display vs comparable projection. But my awareness of the projected nature of the image makes all the difference.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Respectful-but-hard disagree on that point. To me, there is a definite, intangible, primal difference between watching a projected image reflected across a white screen (or other color, YMMV) and watching millions of glowing pixels pulsing at me. It just "feels" fundamentally different; like a "real movie". I know this is unscientific and very subjective, but... well... that's my undeniable experience.

Having a preference is perfectly valid, but to state that someone's set-up isn't a home theater unless it uses a projector is just arbitrary and wrong.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Having a preference is perfectly valid, but to state that someone's set-up isn't a home theater unless it uses a projector is just arbitrary and wrong.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. And please also see my "edit" to the post above.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Either a projector or a direct view display can be the centerpiece of a home theater.

IMO, many believe “home theater” to = a miniature version of a large commercial theater. In late 1984 I procured a 78" Kloss Novabeam to replace a 27" CRT TV. In my mind neither was a home theater because there was no center channel loudspeaker so it was a viewing room. That changed in 2004 when a new projector (JVC) was installed along with a micro-perf projection screen which allowed the use of a center channel speaker that is on the same acoustical center plane as the L/R speakers. Then I considered we had a home theater.

Direct view displays can take advantage of Dolby Vision; last I checked no projector can yet do so.

Check out the Formovie here. Lots of bantering in the projector threads on the use of built-in DTM, Lumagen, madVR, HDFury for LLDV, HDR10+, HLG, etc. For home use I wish folks could see the JVC DILA-NZ9 or Sony VPL-XW7000 on a 150" screen (Stewart Filmscreen Studio Tek 130 G4) with the demo video from the Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark disc. Many would not believe a picture this size could look so good!!!

I am doing better, thank you for asking, but I still have the Covid cough from time to time. My weight loss problem worsened during my illness, but hopefully it stabilizes soon.

Here’s to your continue health improvements.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Incidentally, Sony and Samsung both have experimented with direct view screens in commercial movie theater applications. This article is from 2018, but it shows that it is a possibility for the future.

"Samsung became the early proponent of cinema LED when it held private demonstrations at CinemaCon in March 2017. The cinema industry was stunned by the speed with which the South Korean electronics major won DCI certification in May 2017 and installed the first unit with Lotte in Seoul last July. Eight sites have since been installed or announced, including in China, Europe and the US.

The price tag of around $750,000 (including screen, audio and install) is still the biggest block to widescale adoption. The second is that the screen only comes in the size of 10.3m for the 4K version. Yet the promises of more than 100,000 hours’ lifespan means that, according to integrators, cinemas are seriously weighing it up as an alternative to laser projection."

https://www.cinematech.today/index.p...he-real-world/

A newer 2022 article titled:

HDR LED walls are superior to projection, so why aren't cinemas using them?

"This discussion comes at a time when theatrical exhibition is increasingly looking toward direct-view displays – that is, LED video walls – to replace projection."

"projected cinema HDR struggles to maintain black level. Light directed at the screen is diffuse-reflected into the environment and bounce off anything it can find, particularly if the guy in the front row is wearing a white shirt, and perhaps return to the screen to contaminate blacks. LEDs can do better here, since systems such as Sony's CLEDIS are designed to have deep black coatings on every part of the display that isn't an LED emitter. An inactive CLEDIS looks like a hole in reality."

https://www.redsharknews.com/hdr-led...mas-using-them

I’ve seen the Samsung LES theatre several years ago. Not impressed, especially the sound quality in the “theatre” was atrocious.

[Vilya]

This kind of talk just reminds me of all the times that people say that unless you're doing what I do, you're doing it wrong:

You don't have a "real" home theater unless you have what I have.

You are not a "real" film lover unless you buy what I buy and watch as I watch.

...and all the variations of these themes. My way or the highway.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

I’ve seen the Samsung LES theatre several years ago. Not impressed, especially the sound quality in the “theatre” was atrocious.

Maybe you should have offered to calibrate it for them?

Prototypes evolve; they'll get better.