Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Talal86

what I'd love from a new apple tv is download and external hard drive support

I know it will never happen, though. since companies hate downloading for some reason



I don't think you do, I upgraded my set (tv, avr and player) to 4k and it wasn't anything like the jump from dvd to hd, 1080p is still king

Agreed! 4k has a long way to go before it becomes any kind of standard. Especially with so many ISP now enforcing monthly data caps.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

If you have the patience, you can easily create a Plex collection from the discs you own.

The movie industry is still deathly afraid of drm free downloads though. I don't quite understand the fear though, because all the drm they've thrown at movies so far has done little, if anything, to curb piracy and all they really do in the end is frustrate paying customers.

The main problem with ripping blu-rays and DVDs is that you must break the copy protection embedded on the disc to do it and it's illegal to break copy protection, at least in the US. The closest legal thing to ripping blu-rays is owning a Kaleidescape system but that costs a few thousand dollars. Kaleidescape has the same video and audio quality as the blu-ray for 1080p content, but still you are at the mercy of a company in control of your purchased content or depending on the company to stay in business, unlike owning a blu-ray or DVD.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by PCFan

The main problem with ripping blu-rays and DVDs is that you must break the copy protection embedded on the disc to do it and it's illegal to break copy protection, at least in the US. The closest legal thing to ripping blu-rays is owning a Kaleidescape system but that costs a few thousand dollars. Kaleidescape has the same video and audio quality as the blu-ray for 1080p content, but still you are at the mercy of a company in control of your purchased content or depending on the company to stay in business, unlike owning a blu-ray or DVD.

I'm not going to comment too much on this, as I'm sure it would end up dangerously close to being a discussion on an "unacceptable" topic.

The poster mentioned they were interested in Plex, but was waiting for drm-free downloads to live their home media server dream. I only said this was possible using discs they already own.

The legality of breaking disc drm is a separate issue. I will say, however, that no one has ever gone to jail because they ripped their own discs. Long as the content is not shared, I personally see no problem with it. It would be pretty hard for a studio to prove they suffered a "loss" because you made a personal backup.

With great power...and such.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by Talal86

what I'd love from a new apple tv is download and external hard drive support

I know it will never happen, though. since companies hate downloading for some reason

If Apple had their way, users would likely still be required to download purchases. When it comes to iTunes, downloading is not only accepted, it's encouraged. That's probably why they are the only provider that offers a "home sharing" feature for downloaded content.

With iTunes, the idea is that you will have a computer that serves as your iTunes media server, and all of your other Apple devices (or computers running iTunes) will just consume from there.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by PCFan

The main problem with ripping blu-rays and DVDs is that you must break the copy protection embedded on the disc to do it and it's illegal to break copy protection, at least in the US. The closest legal thing to ripping blu-rays is owning a Kaleidescape system but that costs a few thousand dollars. Kaleidescape has the same video and audio quality as the blu-ray for 1080p content, but still you are at the mercy of a company in control of your purchased content or depending on the company to stay in business, unlike owning a blu-ray or DVD.

You do know its also illegal to buy or sell digital copy codes also right? From what I have read the companies lawyers view it (catagorized it to some extent) as copyright infringement which is why you cant do it on ebay. Both buying and selling digital copy codes and making personal backups fall into a more gray area of the law because a clear precedent has not been set for either and the laws are ambiguous and conflicting for both.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by veritas

You do know its also illegal to buy or sell digital copy codes also right? From what I have read the companies lawyers view it (catagorized it to some extent) as copyright infringement which is why you cant do it on ebay. Both buying and selling digital copy codes and making personal backups fall into a more gray area of the law because a clear precedent has not been set for either and the laws are ambiguous and conflicting for both.

What about doing an Instawatch on a blu-ray you bought from Walmart and then reselling the blu-ray afterwards? What about doing a D2D of a blu-ray to add a Vudu digital copy and then reselling the blu-ray afterwards? What about buying a blu-ray just to redeem the digital code and then reselling the blu-ray? Are these illegal methods but a gray area as well? If a person decides to resell a blu-ray he did an Instawatch on should he contact Vudu to remove the digital copy from his Vudu library? Should the person call Vudu to remove the digital copy from his account if the person decided to resell his blu-ray he did a D2D or redeemed the digital code? Should a person bought a blu-ray and then redeems the iTunes digital code and then resells the blu-ray contact iTunes to remove the digital copy he got from redeeming the code just before he resells the blu-ray?

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by veritas

You do know its also illegal to buy or sell digital copy codes also right? From what I have read the companies lawyers view it (catagorized it to some extent) as copyright infringement which is why you cant do it on ebay. Both buying and selling digital copy codes and making personal backups fall into a more gray area of the law because a clear precedent has not been set for either and the laws are ambiguous and conflicting for both.

Not illegal, but against the "terms".
People are still selling codes on ebay.

If it was illegal this site would not host digital copy selling forums.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Greyman

Not illegal, but against the "terms".
People are still selling codes on ebay.

If it was illegal this site would not host digital copy selling forums.

The quicker they put an end to it, the better. . That would put the cats amongst the pigeons.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The quicker they put an end to it, the better. . That would put the cats amongst the pigeons.

I had to look that one up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_...ng_the_pigeons

[Talal86]

what do you have against selling/buying codes?

[Jett Rink]

Why is this thread even open? It seems like a hotbed for argument and danger.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

Why is this thread even open? It seems like a hotbed for argument and danger.

Danger?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Talal86

what do you have against selling/buying codes?

I want to see if Digital actually has a EST market beyond cheap codes.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

Why is this thread even open? It seems like a hotbed for argument and danger.

It can be, but only recently!

You are welcome here though Jett. Despite what you might hear, I'm a good guy.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Greyman

Not illegal, but against the "terms".
People are still selling codes on ebay.

If it was illegal this site would not host digital copy selling forums.

http://www.webpronews.com/ultraviole...-ebay-2012-04/

http://www.mesalliance.org/2012/04/2...t-movie-codes/

It really depends on what side you subscribe to. studios have at least in the past tried to classify it as copyright infringement when you just buy code sheets and unbundling when you sell code sheets.

Its like I said basically the same group arguing you cant make legal backups ie the studios are also arguing you cant unbundle or sell digital code sheets.

As far as this site selling codes they do make that whole section invisible till you actually log in perhaps they also simply subscribe to a different belief then the studios on if selling codes is illegal. Like I said we haven't really had a court case on almost any relating to unbundling, personal backups or buying digital copies so its rather impossible to be sure what rights consumers really have.

[Jett Rink]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It can be, but only recently!

You are welcome here though Jett. Despite what you might hear, I'm a good guy.

There are a few bad guys here, and you are not one of them.

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by veritas

http://www.webpronews.com/ultraviole...-ebay-2012-04/

http://www.mesalliance.org/2012/04/2...t-movie-codes/

It really depends on what side you subscribe to. studios have at least in the past tried to classify it as copyright infringement when you just buy code sheets and unbundling when you sell code sheets.

Its like I said basically the same group arguing you cant make legal backups ie the studios are also arguing you cant unbundle or sell digital code sheets.

As far as this site selling codes they do make that whole section invisible till you actually log in perhaps they also simply subscribe to a different belief then the studios on if selling codes is illegal. Like I said we haven't really had a court case on almost any relating to unbundling, personal backups or buying digital copies so its rather impossible to be sure what rights consumers really have.

Those articles are from 2012.
Back then sellers shortly figured out that if they sold you a penny and gave you a "free" UV code, that would be an acceptable workaround for ebay. Apparently ebay doesn't even require that anymore.

[unsung122212]

Just because the studios think that trading/selling digital copy code sheet is copyright infringement and view it as illegal doesn't make it illegal. They can try to get the laws to change on it, but they will have a problem with the first sale doctrine. Since digital code sheets are only redeemable just once (twice for those that offer uv and iTunes) it's not like someone can keep a copy of uv and sell the uv, or an iTunes copy and sell the iTunes part. It would be like the studio forbidding people from being able to sell the DVD in the BD-DVD combos since studios don't want people 'unbundling'.

[whipnet]

Selling codes may not be illegal, but it's not legal.

Here's what Ultraviolet support told me:



If I buy a movie (I prefer physical copies) and don't want to use the UV code provided, is it legal to sell the code?

------------------
Submitted from: https://www.myuv.com/en/us/dashboard
Avatar
Ultraviolet Customer Care

1 year ago

Hello,

Thank you for contacting UltraViolet Customer Support.

Regrettably, UltraViolet redemption codes are not for resale. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us, is there anything else we can do to assist you today?

UltraViolet CustomerCare
https://www.myuv.com/

ForFrequentlyAskedQuestions
https://www.myuv.com/en/faq

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Selling codes may not be illegal, but it's not legal.

Here's what Ultraviolet support told me:



If I buy a movie (I prefer physical copies) and don't want to use the UV code provided, is it legal to sell the code?

------------------
Submitted from: https://www.myuv.com/en/us/dashboard
Avatar
Ultraviolet Customer Care

1 year ago

Hello,

Thank you for contacting UltraViolet Customer Support.

Regrettably, UltraViolet redemption codes are not for resale. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us, is there anything else we can do to assist you today?

UltraViolet CustomerCare
https://www.myuv.com/

ForFrequentlyAskedQuestions
https://www.myuv.com/en/faq

UltraViolet doesn't determine the law. The fact that they don't want you to resell the codes doesn't make it illegal.