Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

In the long run it's not a waste of time if you want to make your discs available on all devices. I've gotten to the point where I enjoy it. It's just another part of the process of preserving collections.

I'm not interested in having my content on my phone, tablet, computer or any other device. I don't watch movies and tv shows on the go, I'm only interested in watching them on my setups at home (with the exception of the cinema of course). I currently have 11 Blu-ray players in my home (and I plan to purchase more), there are multiple Blu-ray's players in every room that has a tv (there is a multi-region model in every room too). What more do I need, all other devices are irrelevant to me. They should last a long time, other than my Oppo 105, most of them barely get any use.

It's a lot of wasted time to preserve something when there is a very slim chance that anything will happen (I'm almost two decades into my adult life, and I haven't lost my collection to anything, and there is a high possibly that I never will). I'd rather just pay money to my insurance company, save a lot of time, and forget about it. My physical media collection is insured for $60000, so if anything were to occur, most of my collection would be quite easy to replace, and wouldn't take a great deal of effort to do this (if I had to go on shopping spree to replace my collection, then this would still take a lot less time than backing up my collection to hard drives).

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I haven't used PLEX because I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on hard drives. I've done the math and the hard drive space needed to back up my entire collection twice would cost around $4,000.

I have no problem with PLEX but it isn't worth it for me personally to spend that amount of money just to avoid switching discs.

Currently I have 5 external hard drives. I get them whenever I find a good sale. On average they are around $100 for 4tb and that's pretty good. It's wonderful because it keeps your disc collection in great shape. The disc essentially became the backup for me. The idea is to always have access to purchased content no matter what. Regardless of what happens in the future I will never lose access to any of my collection and this also eliminates the need to ever have to repurchase the disc again if it's lost.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

(if I had to go on shopping spree to replace my collection, then this would still take a lot less time than backing up my collection to hard drives).

On average it takes about 15 mins to an hour to make a mirror image of any Blu Ray or DVD. That's really not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things. Just as you would rather pay a lot of money to an insurance company, keeping my discs on hard drives for digital access is the form of insurance I choose to use.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

On average it takes about 15 mins to an hour to make a mirror image of any Blu Ray or DVD. That's really not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things. Just as you would rather pay a lot of money to an insurance company, keeping my discs on hard drives for digital access is the form of insurance I choose to use.

Based on this, at a minimum, it would take me approximately 5 weeks (840 hours), and at the maximum, it would take me approximately 20 weeks (3360 hours), to do this for my entire DVD and Blu-ray collection. Like I said, waste of time.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Based on this, at a minimum, it would take me approximately 5 weeks (840 hours), and at the maximum, it would take me approximately 20 weeks (3360 hours), to do this for my entire collection. Like I said, waste of time.

Cool, everybody does what is best for them. I've gotten in the habit of backing up each disc I buy. I'm glad your method works out so well for you.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Currently I have 5 external hard drives. I get them whenever I find a good sale. On average they are around $100 for 4tb and that's pretty good. It's wonderful because it keeps your disc collection in great shape. The disc essentially became the backup for me. The idea is to always have access to purchased content no matter what. Regardless of what happens in the future I will never lose access to any of my collection and this also eliminates the need to ever have to repurchase the disc again if it's lost.

My $4,000 estimate was made with 4TB drives being $80 each. I would need about 50 of them to store my entire Blu-ray collection in lossless quality twice. Plus in my experience hard drives fail after 4-6 years so I'd have to buy new ones whenever that happened. I'd end up spending way more than the total cost of my collection just to make it more convenient.

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Cool, everybody does what is best for them. I've gotten in the habit of backing up each disc I buy. I'm glad your method works out so well for you.

That's not hard to do when you only have 60. For Cevolution and I with collections in the thousands it's a major undertaking.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

My $4,000 estimate was made with 4TB drives being $80 each. I would need about 50 of them to store my entire Blu-ray collection in lossless quality twice. Plus in my experience hard drives fail after 4-6 years so I'd have to buy new ones whenever that happened. I'd end up spending way more than the total cost of my collection just to make it more convenient.



That's not hard to do when you only have 60. For Cevolution and I with collections in the thousands it's a major undertaking.

Fair enough. I have had PLEX for a number of years now and it's become my routine. All of my Blu Rays and most of my DVDs are backed up and any future discs I buy will get backed up shortly after purchase. If I had as large a collection as you or Cevolution I would still do it because in my opinion it's worth it. Besides it's the computer creating the images it's not like I'm forced to stay glued to the screen while everything is being processed. I have all my settings in place, it's simply a matter of inserting the disc into the external drive and letting it do it's thing. The point is it's not a hassle and is not difficult at all.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Just as you would rather pay a lot of money to an insurance company, keeping my discs on hard drives for digital access is the form of insurance I choose to use.

It's likely anything that destroys all the discs in your house would also destroy all the hard drives in your house.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It's likely anything that destroys all the discs in your house would also destroy all the hard drives in your house.

Interesting! Thank-You for pointing that out. None of the things that can destroy discs or hard drives can destroy digital. The whole physical Copies vs Digital argument is pretty moot because both have about the same amount of advantages and disadvantages. Digital movies could be removed by studios or providers and Discs and hard drives could be destroyed or stolen.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Interesting! Thank-You for pointing that out. None of the things that can destroy discs or hard drives can destroy digital. The whole physical Copies vs Digital argument is pretty moot because both have about the same amount of advantages and disadvantages. Digital movies could be removed by studios or providers and Discs and hard drives could be destroyed or stolen.

But physical copies are always replaceable. If all of my physical movies are destroyed or stolen than insurance will cover it and I can buy replacements. Even if they are long out of print I can still buy used copies.

If your digital movies are removed by studios or providers than they're gone. If they never had a physical release then they will be completely unavailable.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Just as you would rather pay a lot of money to an insurance company

I didn't specify the amount I pay. The premium I pay to insure my collection is around au$200 per year, which is not a lot of money in my opinion.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I didn't specify the amount I pay.

No disrespect intended I was not judging you for the way you choose to preserve your collection. I apologize if that's what you thought I was doing.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

But physical copies are always replaceable. If all of my physical movies are destroyed or stolen than insurance will cover it and I can buy replacements. Even if they are long out of print I can still buy used copies.

If your digital movies are removed by studios or providers than they're gone. If they never had a physical release then they will be completely unavailable.

I am not sure what you are arguing? You were arguing against backing up your Blu Rays because of it being too expensive and time consuming. You also said anything that can destroy your discs likely will destroy your hard drives. Preservation of the content is the only thing I am concerned with. Even if the hard drives die I can replace those too. Those are physical drives. Regardless of how you choose to preserve your collection whether you keep buying the same kind of Blu Ray players that don't require online activation or just keep repurchasing the same Blu Rays you can always replace what you lose. I've lost hundreds of Blu Rays and DVDs due to a basement flood in the past and backing up my discs on hard drives is just another level of protection for me. I keep my hard drives and discs in safe places and in some cases different places. PLEX offers the added bonus of being able to stream to devices such as tablets and phones as well as being able to share libraries with family and friends. In my case I have everything networked in my apartment so losing access will never be an issue.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

You were arguing against backing up your Blu Rays because of it being too expensive and time consuming. You also said anything that can destroy your discs likely will destroy your hard drives.

I wasn't arguing against backing up your Blu-rays I was just stating that a backup that's in the same general area as the original isn't good insurance. I have no problem with backing up Blu-rays, it just isn't worth the time and expense for me.

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I am not sure what you are arguing?

I was responding to you saying that the advantages and disadvantages of physical and digital are equal. They aren't because physical media is always replaceable. Using PLEX with your Blu-rays and DVDs is on the physical side of the argument because distribution is physical.

My copy of an individual movie can break or be stolen but it's extremely unlikely that everyone's copy of that movie will break. I can simply buy another copy from one of the thousands of people will still has one.

But if a digital title is removed by a studio or digital provider everyone will lose their copy simultaneously. No one will be able to replace it.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

But if a digital title is removed by a studio or digital provider everyone will lose their copy simultaneously. No one will be able to replace it.

That's not true though. I have plenty of digital titles in my library through VUDU that are not being sold anymore and I still have full access. Your example is something that could happen but is not currently happening. It's just like when my discs got lost and ruined during that basement flood. It's not the norm but it happened to me and could happen to other people too. Basing everything on what COULD happen only serves to ruin some of the enjoyment of the hobby in my opinion.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

That's not true though. I have plenty of digital titles in my library through VUDU that are not being sold anymore and I still have full access. Your example is something that could happen but is not currently happening.

VUDU hasn't started removing titles from collections yet, but there is no guarantee that they won't in the future. When and if that happens those titles won't be replaceable if they didn't get a physical release.

Originally Posted by zodwriter

It's just like when my discs got lost and ruined during that basement flood. It's not the norm but it happened to me and could happen to other people too.

When that happened were there any movies that you couldn't buy again?

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

VUDU hasn't started removing titles from collections yet, but there is no guarantee that they won't in the future. When and if that happens those titles won't be replaceable if they didn't get a physical release.

Right now your assumption is just an assumption since there is no evidence to indicate that VUDU has any plans to start removing titles from people's collections. If this happens I will be happy I had sense enough to backup the Blu Ray counterparts to my PLEX Server so that there is no possible way for me to lose access to any of my movies.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Right now your assumption is just an assumption since there is no evidence to indicate that VUDU has any plans to start removing titles from people's collections.

Nobody knows what the future holds. VUDU is only 10 years old. They probably don't have any plans to remove any titles soon but that doesn't mean they won't start removing titles in another 10 or 20 years.

Originally Posted by zodwriter

If this happens I will be happy I had sense enough to backup the Blu Rays to my PLEX Server so that there is no possible way for me to lose access to any of my movies.

There's no possible way to lose access to any of your Blu-rays whether or not they're backed up. I've stated repeatedly that everything that's available on physical media will remain available. Discs, players, and hard drives can all break but they're all replaceable.

The problem is that as digital becomes more and more popular more and more titles will be released exclusively on digital and some of them will later become completely unavailable. That's why I won't support digital at all: every bit of support can lead to more lost titles.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Nobody knows what the future holds. VUDU is only 10 years old. They probably don't have any plans to remove any titles soon but that doesn't mean they won't start removing titles in another 10 or 20 years.

Storage costs for content is getting cheaper as time goes on. So logically in another 10 or 20 years content through providers like VUDU will likely be even more protected than it is now.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Storage costs for content is getting cheaper as time goes on. So logically in another 10 or 20 years content through providers like VUDU will likely be even more protected than it is now.

Cheap enough to store hundreds of thousands of movies that aren't selling at all?

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Cheap enough to store hundreds of thousands of movies that aren't selling at all?

In the future if they are still not selling said titles and storage is even cheaper, what incentive will they have to go into people's personal collection and start removing? It's far more likely that the cost of maintaining people's accounts is a streamlined process and taking stuff away is not priority. The idea is to keep customers happy so they continue to make digital purchases.