Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Ethernet is almost always faster than Wi-Fi

In general that is true but keep in mind most TV's have only a 100Base-T port. I believe we covered this topic several weeks ago.

On 801.11ac my wireless is ≫ than most TV wired ports, as in 390 Mbps.

[Show spoiler]

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You wanted testing for Vudu and HBO Max, here it is. He shoots down Amazon Prime, and I don't get that. I asked him if he was connected WiFi, that might be the problem.

BTW, have posted before but will post again. On Android you can bring up the Prime Video diagnostic screen if you are really fast at pushing buttons in certain sequences on your remote cursor pad. I could never do it but it was no problem to program them in as macros on my remote .

One screen looks like this:

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[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

In general that is true but keep in mind most TV's have only a 100Base-T port. I believe we covered this topic several weeks ago.

On 801.11ac my wireless is ≫ than most TV wired ports, as in 390 Mbps.

[Show spoiler]

I am not aware of ANY TV with anything but a 100 Mbps ethernet port. The fastest network connection speeds are achieved by using a wifi network.

Also, as streaming uses such anemic bitrates anyway, there is no need for a super fast network connection. Streaming bitrates from the best SVOD services only reach about 30 Mbps.

Sony's Bravia Core streaming service recommends 115 Mbps for best results. A hard wired TV can not receive speeds that high.

All you need is a stable connection and my wifi and hard wired networks have proven to be equally reliable. Now if only my ISP was half as reliable along with the SVODs and their often over taxed servers.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

People are laughing at you, again!

At the start of the video he stated the he had gigabit fiber. When he shows the diagnostics from the ATV4K HUD it clearly shows the network bandwidth > 300 Mbps for some services and < 6 Mbps for others. Had a graphic over the HUD during the Prime Video segment so I could not see the network bandwidth.

How many times does one need to post, “with RTSP the A/V quality will be very dependent on time of day watched, the service used and your ISP” before you get it?

As to Prime Video, at my location it is fairly good in terms of network bandwidth. Already posted Prime Video original content is pretty good but the digital locker content is lacking as in, fairly low data rates and 192 Kbps DD+ 5.1 sound were others will be DD+ Atmos with 448 Kbps or greater.

At his location Vudu was pretty good and MA was poop, at my location it is reversed, at least it was on the day and time checked, all subject to change.

People laugh because they want to believe the WiFi Hype, but you think you are a smart guy and should know better. Jaremy said he does all the testing with the ATV4K and it is Hardwired. He doesn't suspect the Network, and thinks it might be the Apple Amazon Prime App.

As you guys know I worked in the Telco Industry and did Network Contracting in the Silicon Valley and San Francisco. The Networks were all Ethernet, and only used Wireless for Mobile Devices. So the people that laugh and complain about Streaming are probably Wireless!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Ethernet is almost always faster than Wi-Fi

https://www.businessinsider.com/guid...0same%20router.

You don't need a Ferrari to drive in a 30 mph speed zone.

Streaming bitrates max out at around 30 Mbps. Available internet speeds are not an issue for most of us.

Speed is not the issue. A stable connection is what matters and wifi and hard wired network connections are both extremely dependable.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You don't need a Ferrari to drive in a 30 mph speed zone.

Streaming bitrates max out at around 30 Mbps. Available internet speeds are not an issue for most of us.

Speed is not the issue. A stable connection is what matters and wifi and hard wired network connections are both extremely dependable.

You can argue till the cows come home but an Ethernet connection will always be more reliable than a Wifi connection. It's just the science that makes it so.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

People laugh because they want to believe the WiFi Hype, but you think you are a smart guy and should know better. Jaremy said he does all the testing with the ATV4K and it is Hardwired. He doesn't suspect the Network, and thinks it might be the Apple Amazon Prime App.

As you guys know I worked in the Telco Industry and did Network Contracting. The Networks were all Ethernet, and only used Wireless for Mobile Devices. So the people that laugh and complain about Streaming are probably Wireless!

People laugh because you keep repeating the same debunked nonsense. People that use streaming, period, are mostly using wireless connections. Thus, the satisfied and dissatisfied alike are mostly using a wireless connection. Duh!

Most people use wireless networks for streaming. They do so because it works and it works well. No one would stick with something that failed them. Even a complete idiot is smart enough to know that.

I see the same crappy compression artifacts when I stream over either type of network. A sub par source is a sub par source over any network. When my ISP shites the bed, the type of network that I am using doesn't matter. When the SVOD's servers are over taxed, the type of network connection makes no difference.

Repeating where you worked doesn't mean you were any good at what you did. I wouldn't let you wire my toaster to a wall outlet.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You can argue till the cows come home but an Ethernet connection will always be more reliable than a Wifi connection. It's just the science that makes it so.

Technically, that is true, but in practical application it is immaterial.

The reliability of the two network connections are both so high that the tiny difference between them does not matter. If one thing is 99% reliable and the other is 98% reliable, the former would be best, but the difference is negligible.

The bottom line here is beyond obvious and so much so that even the densest and blindest among us should realize it: the vast majority of people would not choose to stream over a wireless network if they were not happy with the results.

TV OEMs would provide us with ethernet ports above 100 Mbps if they were needed. They don't because they know that most people stream over a wifi network.

[deatheats]

People use Wi-Fi because it’s convenient. Much like streaming media.

They’d rather buy a new Wi-Fi router than run a cable or two between their rooms. They do this because it’s easier, but not in any way faster, more consistent, secure or reliable. It’s up to you to figure out what’s more important for your setup.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

People use Wi-Fi because it’s convenient. Much like streaming media.

They’d rather buy a new Wi-Fi router than run a cable or two between their rooms. They do this because it’s easier, but not in any way faster, more consistent, secure or reliable. It’s up to you to figure out what’s more important for your setup.

Wif is faster. My TVs can only connect to my wired network with their 100 mbps ethernet ports. My wifi network reaches speeds of over 400 Mbps. The speed doesn't matter, anyway, as streaming only requires about 30 Mbps tops.

If wifi networks were not more than reliable enough for streaming, even the laziest among us would grow tired of the constant connection problems and instead hardwire their TVs. It isn't exactly hard to do.

[deatheats]

Since I have a mixture of devices with gigabit+ Ethernet alongside a TV with, as you mentioned a 100Mb port, I prefer Ethernet for my setup. As streaming services are the limiting factor the potential bandwidth improvements of Wi-Fi over 100Mb Ethernet are not in play. The bigger potential issue is whether the rates you are getting remain consistent. This could be an issue at the service level which would impact both wired / wireless connections, but speed negotiations (where rates bounce around) made between the device and the router is more common on Wi-Fi connections, than Ethernet.

Like I said it’s up to the user to determine if the convenience of Wi-Fi is more important than potential consistency issues or whether they even have devices which can make use of gigabit speeds. For the majority of folks streaming over Wi-Fi is good enough. Thankfully I’m not most people.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

Like I said it’s up to the user to determine if the convenience of Wi-Fi is more important than potential consistency issues or whether they even have devices which can make use of gigabit speeds. For the majority of folks streaming over Wi-Fi is good enough. Thankfully I’m not most people.

Speeds are not the issue here. Either network delivers plenty of speed for streaming's low bitrates.

At a minimum, you need a reliable network connection to enjoy streaming. It's not about being "good enough." You either have a reliable network connection or you do not.

If you do not, then nothing else matters as streaming will be an infuriating experience and one that no one would put up with for long. If you have a reliable connection then you won't care if its a wireless or wired network providing it and streaming will perform as best it can IF all of those other beyond our control variables are cooperating.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Speeds are not the issue here. Either network delivers plenty of speed for streaming's low bitrates.

Speeds are an issue for me as I’m not just streaming. I use my network for other purposes, thus my preference for Ethernet. And since it’s already in place I use it for streaming, as well, as it does offer a more consistent experience over a wireless connection.

[bhampton]

I love Gruv. There's a new user coupon that you can use EVERY TIME for 20% off. Usually shipping is slow for me but my Hitchcock Vol 2 surprized me by showing up fast.

Came with 5 UHD digital copies also ... so, Alchav may want to have a look ... plus they sell digital copies too and the coupon most likely works for those but I haven't tried it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

Speeds are an issue for me as I’m not just streaming. I use my network for other purposes, thus my preference for Ethernet. And since it’s already in place I use it for streaming, as well, as it does offer a more consistent experience over a wireless connection.

Most of us do the same. I do not have a 500 Mbps internet plan just so that I can stream Netflix.

I use my wired connection for my online pc gaming. Both of my TVs are also hard wired to the internet. I did this as an experiment to see if I noticed any differences between streaming over a wireless or a wired connection. I have yet to notice any differences after more than two years of switching back and forth between them.

I currently use a Roku Ultra with a wireless connection to test my wireless streaming on my main TV. Had I noticed a difference I was planning to hardwire the Roku as well, but so far I have no reason to do so.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I love Gruv. There's a new user coupon that you can use EVERY TIME for 20% off. Usually shipping is slow for me but my Hitchcock Vol 2 surprized me by showing up fast.

Came with 5 UHD digital copies also ... so, Alchav may want to have a look ... plus they sell digital copies too and the coupon most likely works for those but I haven't tried it.

I have heard that GRUV has some good deals, but I have never tried them.

How slow is slow shipping and do they ship in a box or just toss everything into an envelope?

Amazon shipped 13 blu-rays to me in a flimsy oversized envelope as usual. Amazingly, they survived...this time.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have heard that GRUV has some good deals, but I have never tried them.

How slow is slow shipping and do they ship in a box or just toss everything into an envelope?

Amazon shipped 13 blu-rays to me in a flimsy oversized envelope as usual. Amazingly, they survived...this time.

This order was just Hitchcock vol 2 and came in a box with balloon type padding.

I don't recall previous orders packaging. Sometimes though they have something no one else still has and on the other hand they may not have stuff that's available everywhere. As long as they have the 20% it's worth browsing.

I don't think they give tracking and I have had orders ship slow before. This one shipped fast.

From the website -

[Show spoiler]
Welcome to GRUV. It’s yours. You own it. It’s ready when you want it. Any time. Again and again and again.

We’re the excitement of seeing a package at your doorstep and the joy of tearing it open. We’re the relief of not having to sign up for five different streaming services just to enjoy your favorite titles. No unfulfilled promises of limitless libraries or on-demand availability, and hallelujah, no buffering. After all, what’s more on demand than a hard copy?

At Gruv, we only make one promise. Provide great entertainment. And we deliver. It’s what we do. It’s all we do. So take a look around. Stay a while. Find something you like.

Welcome to GRUV. Entertainment delivered.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I love Gruv. There's a new user coupon that you can use EVERY TIME for 20% off. Usually shipping is slow for me but my Hitchcock Vol 2 surprized me by showing up fast.

Came with 5 UHD digital copies also ... so, Alchav may want to have a look ... plus they sell digital copies too and the coupon most likely works for those but I haven't tried it.

I find myself ordering more from Gruv as well. Some truly great deals and have never had an issue with them.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Speeds are not the issue here. Either network delivers plenty of speed for streaming's low bitrates.

At a minimum, you need a reliable network connection to enjoy streaming. It's not about being "good enough." You either have a reliable network connection or you do not.

If you do not, then nothing else matters as streaming will be an infuriating experience and one that no one would put up with for long. If you have a reliable connection then you won't care if its a wireless or wired network providing it and streaming will perform as best it can IF all of those other beyond our control variables are cooperating.

Hey Vilya it's good to have your Spunky Self back, but deatheats is right. Now Speed is not a factor, but Consistent Reliability is. I don't have a problem with any of my Streaming Providers including Amazon Prime, and I'm sure most of the people that complain about Streaming are Wireless. Even if I had the new Sony Bravia I would use the 100Mbps Ethernet connection and the Streaming would be better than the Wireless!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey Vilya it's good to have your Spunky Self back, but deatheats is right. Now Speed is not a factor, but Consistent Reliability is. I don't have a problem with any of my Streaming Providers including Amazon Prime, and I'm sure most of the people that complain about Streaming are Wireless. Even if I had the new Sony Bravia I would use the 100Mbps Ethernet connection and the Streaming would be better than the Wireless!

Most people that stream use wireless, period. Those that are happy and unhappy will both have that in common.

I have no problems with my SVODs either, other than their "less than" quality, and the type of network connection makes zero difference. The many compression artifacts inherent to streaming are present no matter the type of network connection used. An inferior source is an inferior source either way.

If you were shown the same thing being streamed to two of the same TVs with the exact same settings in the exact same environment, but one with a wireless connection and the other with a wired one, I bet you could not tell any difference. I doubt that you could tell shite from apple butter, to be honest, after you yourself said that you could not tell much difference between a 4K and an HD stream.

Watching Sony Bravia streaming would not be better over a wired connection because you can't receive the bitrate that Sony recommends (115 Mbps) over a TV's ethernet port.

I suppose you think that your career as a cable internet installer means that you know better than Sony? You don't. I'll take Sony's advice over yours without a second's hesitation.

Again: Sony recommends a 115 Mbps internet speed minimum for their Bravia Core Service. No TV ethernet port can deliver that speed.