Killzone 3

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

You can't make everyone happy. That can't be avoided. I think it comes down to Killzone being a different kind of FPS. You're damned if you depart from the CoDs of the world and you're damned if you don't. People cry for something different from CoD. They get it and the old CoD players go back to CoD. All the CoD crowd wants is more CoD gameplay with different maps. It's hard for them to adapt to something else. I think you are one of those people.

Good luck on your search for other FPS.

I was happy with KZ2... A few hundred hours happy (~500)...

KZ3 is NOT what it should have been... YOu cant make everyone happy but they should have been able to make a larger share of KZ and KZ2 players happy.

Shall I list why I am not happy?
1. Skill plays no part in unlocks. (This is OK, because it left a few fringe casuals unhappy because they had to work to get skills unlocked... now it is casual friendly, where you just play and you can unlock anything).
2. Ridged class system. (I have no idea where this came from. A GREAT part of KZ2 was the ability to create your own style of play. Even rifleman was removed... CRAZY)
3. Controls were changed to a more standard functionality. (I am unhappy, but fine with this. It removed a very unique-in-gaming twist that I felt made the game more real, but was a big problem with the COD-type players who wanted twitch control over the player. So-Be-It)
4. No custom games. (if you had an issue with the assault class, you went into rooms that did not allow it... 100% fixed. It allowed players who liked whatever it was to play how they wanted and everyone else to play how they wanted... Zipper MIGHT change it, but it should have been in from day one).
5. Deathmatch. (WHY did they waste time and effort on this? They COULD have had the same exact thing with custom games...)
6. Seeing available games (basically you just hit play...)
7. Short and half-done SP (I liked it fine... It was a VERY good first half of a good SP. It was a terrible full version).
8. Stat tracking is drastically reduced
9. No replays of games
10. Diminished clan support
Etc.

OTOH, Operations is an awesome addition (that I understand GG has no intention of expanding in KZ3), the graphic ability (ie water, 3D, etc) are a big step forward, and Brutal Melee shows everyone how Melee should be done; it actually puts realism into melee kills (want to kill him hand-to-hand? it is going to take a while, and you might get killed doing it).




Bottom line is, as a KZ fan from day on on PS2, I EXPECTED that KZ3 would be a step up from KZ2. Basically an advancement. Instead what we got what a graphically enhanced but heavily feature reduced KZ2 with new maps.

I think it comes down to KZ3 being completely washed down (but sexier looking) version of KZ2...and as a KZ and GG fanboy, I expected MUCH better.

[polskaforever]

Originally Posted by ThePhantomOak

I was happy with KZ2... A few hundred hours happy (~500)...

KZ3 is NOT what it should have been... YOu cant make everyone happy but they should have been able to make a larger share of KZ and KZ2 players happy.

Shall I list why I am not happy?
1. Skill plays no part in unlocks. (This is OK, because it left a few fringe casuals unhappy because they had to work to get skills unlocked... now it is casual friendly, where you just play and you can unlock anything).
2. Ridged class system. (I have no idea where this came from. A GREAT part of KZ2 was the ability to create your own style of play. Even rifleman was removed... CRAZY)
3. Controls were changed to a more standard functionality. (I am unhappy, but fine with this. It removed a very unique-in-gaming twist that I felt made the game more real, but was a big problem with the COD-type players who wanted twitch control over the player. So-Be-It)
4. No custom games. (if you had an issue with the assault class, you went into rooms that did not allow it... 100% fixed. It allowed players who liked whatever it was to play how they wanted and everyone else to play how they wanted... Zipper MIGHT change it, but it should have been in from day one).
5. Deathmatch. (WHY did they waste time and effort on this? They COULD have had the same exact thing with custom games...)
6. Seeing available games (basically you just hit play...)
7. Short and half-done SP (I liked it fine... It was a VERY good first half of a good SP. It was a terrible full version).
8. Stat tracking is drastically reduced
9. No replays of games
10. Diminished clan support
Etc.

OTOH, Operations is an awesome addition (that I understand GG has no intention of expanding in KZ3), the graphic ability (ie water, 3D, etc) are a big step forward, and Brutal Melee shows everyone how Melee should be done; it actually puts realism into melee kills (want to kill him hand-to-hand? it is going to take a while, and you might get killed doing it).




Bottom line is, as a KZ fan from day on on PS2, I EXPECTED that KZ3 would be a step up from KZ2. Basically an advancement. Instead what we got what a graphically enhanced but heavily feature reduced KZ2 with new maps.

I think it comes down to KZ3 being completely washed down (but sexier looking) version of KZ2...and as a KZ and GG fanboy, I expected MUCH better.

I agree with what you wrote above.

Overall, I dont mind the changes that they did for KZ3 but some small little touches that they removed like squad spawn, map radar not showing allies where the medic is, airbots and turrets explode when you die which doesnt make sense really. Its really annoying to redeploy them every time.

[Bageara]

Cant argue with that list. Thats just it isnt it? its what they took away from us from KZ2. If they hadnt took away what is listed above and just added what they did, the game would be near enough perfect in my eyes.

[polskaforever]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Cant argue with that list. Thats just it isnt it? its what they took away from us from KZ2. If they hadnt took away what is listed above and just added what they did, the game would be near enough perfect in my eyes.

YES. Exactly!!

[QuasidodoJr]

To Bageara:

When I don't kill someone with a single blast from the shotgun, I STILL get hit markers. So, it's either a matter of lag or it means a shotgun won't ALWAYS kill in a single shot.

I've played Warzone plenty. Even with objective-based play, it doesn't change the issues I have with the core gameplay. As someone else has already pointed out, the Sta-52 is easily an over-powered weapon. You probably don't see it because you do appear to be a fanboy (avatar and all.) I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

To Ascended-Saiyan:

The last Call of Duty I actually cared for was Call of Duty: World at War. It only had one slightly over-powered weapon to deal with, and it was before ridiculous skills like cloaking or completely stupid killstreaks had come into the mix.

I recently just rented Crysis 2 and its MP is flat out terrible. Killzone 3 is at least a better option than it.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

To Bageara:

When I don't kill someone with a single blast from the shotgun, I STILL get hit markers. So, it's either a matter of lag or it means a shotgun won't ALWAYS kill in a single shot.

I've played Warzone plenty. Even with objective-based play, it doesn't change the issues I have with the core gameplay. As someone else has already pointed out, the Sta-52 is easily an over-powered weapon. You probably don't see it because you clearly are a fanboy. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

The shotgun won't always kill in one shot because you need to get a good hit to do enough damage. Shotshell pellets spread so you can hit the enemy with only a few, not doing enough damage to kill an enemy. It would be absolutely ridiculous if the shotgun was one-hit-kill at close range ALWAYS since it's so hard to "miss" with it...
Also, the STA52 weapon isn't overpowered, one could argue that the STA52 used by a cloaked marksman is but the weapon itself...no way.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Rike255

The shotgun won't always kill in one shot because you need to get a good hit to do enough damage. Shotshell pellets spread so you can hit the enemy with only a few, not doing enough damage to kill an enemy. It would be absolutely ridiculous if the shotgun was one-hit-kill at close range ALWAYS since it's so hard to "miss" with it...
Also, the STA52 weapon isn't overpowered, one could argue that the STA52 used by a cloaked marksman is but the weapon itself...no way.

Actually, the damage cone for the shotgun seems to be fairly small, like I'm using a hunting shotgun or something.

I see plenty of people having to fire off two shots with the shotgun for a kill. This is more than likely due to lag. Fully-Automatic weapon users don't have to worry as much about lag because they can just spray until the other person dies.

What is rather odd, though, is that you think a shotgun should not ALWAYS be a one-hit kill at close range, but I guess you're fine with the fact that the VC-32 is a one-hit kill even if all you tag is the other player's foot. And yes, I've experimented. VC-32 shots to the feet are indeed lethal.

See, the problem being, the shotgun is really only good at close range, whereas an assault rifle is extremely deadly at close range and mid-range. If you're at a distance, the shotgun can take 3 to 4 shots for a kill - unless you land a random headshot. I'm sure some of you will say, "I do it all the time." And I'll simply respond with Bullcrap! If any of you are such pros that you land headshot kills at mid-range with the shotgun on a regular basis, supply some video evidence of YOU playing, and then I'll believe you.

Oh, yeah... and isn't it pretty much only cloaked Marksmen that use the Sta-52? The fact that the cloaked Marksmen can use it IS the exact issue that makes it over-powered.

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Cant argue with that list. Thats just it isnt it? its what they took away from us from KZ2. If they hadnt took away what is listed above and just added what they did, the game would be near enough perfect in my eyes.

Honestly, Operations and Warzone are tow of the best FPS modes I have seen in gaming.

Brutal Melee fixed EVERYTHING I hated about FPS melee.

The lag is SO much better than KZ2 in most cases, and the base raping is either better or on par with KZ2.


That list (and other features that they removed) is why I dont like KZ3. It would be the best FPS of the generation otherwise. The graphical enhancements, level design (except for turbine, IMHO), and art direction are insanely fun.

It is why I played KZ3 for ~75 hours. It just left me wondering why it was not head and shoulders deeper than KZ2.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Actually, the damage cone for the shotgun seems to be fairly small, like I'm using a hunting shotgun or something.

I see plenty of people having to fire off two shots with the shotgun for a kill. This is more than likely due to lag. Fully-Automatic weapon users don't have to worry as much about lag because they can just spray until the other person dies.

What is rather odd, though, is that you think a shotgun should not ALWAYS be a one-hit kill at close range, but I guess you're fine with the fact that the VC-32 is a one-hit kill even if all you tag is the other player's foot. And yes, I've experimented. VC-32 shots to the feet are indeed lethal.

Oh, yeah... and isn't it pretty much only cloaked Marksmen that use the Sta-52? The fact that the cloaked Marksmen can use it IS the exact issue that makes it over-powered.

I didn't say a word about the VC32 but I'm glad you know my opinion better than I do. I don't know what to tell you man...I'm just glad you didn't design the game I guess

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Rike255

I didn't say a word about the VC32 but I'm glad you know my opinion better than I do. I don't know what to tell you man...I'm just glad you didn't design the game I guess

Just a simple question, then - which weapon do you use the most?

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Actually, the damage cone for the shotgun seems to be fairly small, like I'm using a hunting shotgun or something.

I see plenty of people having to fire off two shots with the shotgun for a kill. This is more than likely due to lag. Fully-Automatic weapon users don't have to worry as much about lag because they can just spray until the other person dies.

What is rather odd, though, is that you think a shotgun should not ALWAYS be a one-hit kill at close range, but I guess you're fine with the fact that the VC-32 is a one-hit kill even if all you tag is the other player's foot. And yes, I've experimented. VC-32 shots to the feet are indeed lethal.

Oh, yeah... and isn't it pretty much only cloaked Marksmen that use the Sta-52? The fact that the cloaked Marksmen can use it IS the exact issue that makes it over-powered.

Honestly, this game is built around high lethality rates. That means almost everything in the game can and will kill you quickly if used by a decent player.

That means EVERYTHING is "OP." In actuality, there are a couple of weapons that are not half second-one second killers, and even those can get the quick kill with a good user behind them...



Basically, I can pick of ANY gun in the game and with a gunfight. The guns all have their ups and downs (tier 3 LMG is beast in close quarters, but across the room and farther you better have trigger control, or you will piss bullets everywhere but the target: Shotgun is beat out to about 20m, but if you miss, you better hope he does not aim or spray better than you).

Anyway, Shotgun should not be a OHK if you dont aim it. If there is LAG then the lag is OP, not the weapon.

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by ThePhantomOak

Anyway, Shotgun should not be a OHK if you dont aim it. If there is LAG then the lag is OP, not the weapon.

The shotgun is beat in just about every situation. At close range, the other player can make it extremely difficult to land a lethal shot by doing the strafe and spray and still kill you first, usually without even aiming down their sights. And at medium range, they can just kill you before your shots do any sort of effective damage. The shotgun is mostly effective if you're camping a doorway or shooting them in the back. But then pretty much every weapon is effective when shooting your opponent in the back.

Honestly, this is why the assault rifles are not as lethal in games like Halo and Gears of War. Because they want the shotgun to still be effective and have its place. In most current shooters, it's the weapon that only a handful of people use, since most of us die a lot using it.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Just a simple question, then - which weapon do you use the most?

M82 or M82SE because it looks so cool!

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

To Bageara:

When I don't kill someone with a single blast from the shotgun, I STILL get hit markers. So, it's either a matter of lag or it means a shotgun won't ALWAYS kill in a single shot.

I've played Warzone plenty. Even with objective-based play, it doesn't change the issues I have with the core gameplay. As someone else has already pointed out, the Sta-52 is easily an over-powered weapon. You probably don't see it because you do appear to be a fanboy (avatar and all.) I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

To Ascended-Saiyan:

The last Call of Duty I actually cared for was Call of Duty: World at War. It only had one slightly over-powered weapon to deal with, and it was before ridiculous skills like cloaking or completely stupid killstreaks had come into the mix.

I recently just rented Crysis 2 and its MP is flat out terrible. Killzone 3 is at least a better option than it.

Well if we are going off avatars, that would make you a bit of a muppet, sounds about right

Seriously though lets not play the fanboy card. Im a fan of Killzone not a mindless fanboy.
Ive already said the game is far from perfect, note PhantomOaks list above, all obvious and valid points which i agree with entirely.
I see the games faults and have had many discussions in this thread about them but many of your faults with the game i just dont see because they seem to be down to skill. You dont like it because you keep getting killed

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Rike255

M82 or M82SE because it looks so cool!

Nope. You may not intentionally do so, but you use assault rifles because they're the best.

Originally Posted by Bageara

Well if we are going off avatars, that would make you a bit off a muppet, sounds about right

I'm not British, so that term doesn't bother me here. A muppet is merely a Jim Henson creation. I'd also like to point out that I have not insulted a single person in this thread, yet. But insults seem to be coming my way.

Hmmm...

Also - it's not my "bad" aim or me having no skill or me getting killed all the time. I just checked your stats and I have 1767 less kills than you, but 60 more headshots than you. My K/D ratio is worse than your's, but my K/D is terrible in objective-based modes, because I die a lot rushing the objective. I believe my K/D is around 1.78 in Guerilla Warfare. And that's when I'm mostly rocking the shotgun.

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Nope. You may not intentionally do so, but you use assault rifles because they're the best.

I'm not British, so that term doesn't bother me here. A muppet is merely a Jim Henson creation. I'd also like to point out that I have not insulted a single person in this thread, yet. But insults seem to be coming my way.

Hmmm...

Also - it's not my "bad" aim or me having no skill or me getting killed all the time. I just checked your stats and I have 1767 less kills than you, but 60 more headshots than you. My K/D ratio is worse than your's, but my K/D is terrible in objective-based modes, because I die a lot rushing the objective. I believe my K/D is around 1.78 in Guerilla Warfare. And that's when I'm mostly rocking the shotgun.

Well calling me a fanboy could be seen as a pretty big insult. Anyway i was only joking i wasnt being insulting thats why i put a on the end of the sentence

All i know is i can use all classes, weapons and abilities effectively. I know people on these forums, AV forums, my clan and i come up against enemy players every day who use all classes,weapons and abilities effectively but you say you are having problems

If you like to run around Team deathmatch with a shotgun getting loads of headshots at point blank range then you havent really got the most out of the game and i would agree with you for the first time yet....yes COD does that better, they should never of added Team deathmatch to KZ

Have you ever tried KZ2?

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Well calling me a fanboy could be seen as a pretty big insult. Anyway i was only joking i wasnt being insulting thats why i put a on the end of the sentence

All i know is i can use all classes, weapons and abilities effectively. I know people on these forums, AV forums, my clan and i come up against enemy players every day who use all classes,weapons and abilities effectively but you say you are having problems

If you like to run around Team deathmatch with a shotgun getting loads of headshots at point blank range then you havent really got the most out of the game and i would agree with you for the first time yet....yes COD does that better, they should never of added Team deathmatch to KZ

Have you ever tried KZ2?

It's actually quite difficult to land headshots consecutively with the shotgun.

Seriously, though. If you hit anywhere else but directly on the center of the head, it will just end up as a regular kill. Also, not all of my headshots are with the shotgun. They're spread out among the shottie, the M224-A1 and the majority were with the VC-32. I do have the Sniper Rifle Expert Medal.

I liked KZ2 better. Played it too much, though. And I'm tired of Call of Duty. The last online shooter I really enjoyed, oddly enough, was Singularity. It was broken beyond hell, as far as balance, but it felt so much different than other games it was really fun.

[Rike255]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Nope. You may not intentionally do so, but you use assault rifles because they're the best.

If I wanted to use the best I'd use the sniper rifle exclusively. I don't use the shotgun because I don't like the assault/infiltrator classes.

If you're K/D ratio with a shotgun is 1.78 like you say it is then how can you honestly think the shotgun is weak? Maybe you're just not as good as you think you are?

[Shin-Ra]

We really need to stop resorting to namecalling when a fan defends what they're a fan of. You're just going to piss them off on a personal level and do nothing to persuade the undecided to your line of thinking.

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

The shotgun is beat in just about every situation. At close range, the other player can make it extremely difficult to land a lethal shot by doing the strafe and spray and still kill you first, usually without even aiming down their sights. And at medium range, they can just kill you before your shots do any sort of effective damage. The shotgun is mostly effective if you're camping a doorway or shooting them in the back. But then pretty much every weapon is effective when shooting your opponent in the back.

Honestly, this is why the assault rifles are not as lethal in games like Halo and Gears of War. Because they want the shotgun to still be effective and have its place. In most current shooters, it's the weapon that only a handful of people use, since most of us die a lot using it.

That is the user, not the weapon. If that is your argument, I have two words; git gud.


/shotgundiscussion