SPECTRE Review Thread

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by Page14

I had a little time on my hands today so I stopped by a theater on a whim, with the hopes that I could see SPECTRE. I got there 2 minutes after the movie started, so I elected not to go ... because I was thinking if this Bond movie is like all the others (that I'm aware of), the action starts right from the get go. If/when I see it, I want to see it all!

You especially don't want to miss the beginning of this one. It has arguably the best camerawork in the film.

[Outlander]

Originally Posted by The Architect

Just got back from it and...it is a big disappointment! I love Casino Royale and Skyfall and like Quantum but this is beneath all of them. The best part of the movie was Bautista. The movie is incredible dull, not even the action scenes can't pump your adrenaline, Cristophe Waltz's character wasn't menacing at all, and it was pretty predictable (I haven;t read the leaked script).

Just got back from seeing it. I agree with you. Very disappointed ! Actions scenes were dull and the music was terrible.

I'd rate the Craig films in the exact order they were released.

Love Craig, hope he comes back. But glad Sam Mendes is done with Bond.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Why do you think the movie showed

[Show spoiler]Bond and Swann waiting in that small building? If Blofeld knew they were on the train, wouldn't the car be there straight away to pick them up?

And tell me this: how does Blofeld know that Bond is on his way towards him? He doesn't know that Bond has discovered the location of his lair at L'Americain! By what mechanism does he know they are on the train?

So if I understand you correctly, your argument seems to be, "the flaw I'm point out can't be true because there is another, bigger plothole that contradicts it?"

Keep talking... I'm listening.

Originally Posted by lemonski

But weren't Silva, LeChiffre and Green also trying to kill Bond? Isn't this also mucking up all the pain he has been authoring? What you're suggesting isn't consistent with the first three movies.

Thanks! You just made my argument for me. SPECTRE's greatest sin is that it's not just content to be nonsensical for it's own sake... it also has to screw up the films that came before it. By attempting to retroactively pull on all these strings to tie these Craig stories together, it essentially unravels the 3 films that came before. It creates scenarios and motivations that fly in the face of logic and deflate the earlier conflicts and all for a 3rd act resolution/reveal that nearly everyone agrees is ridiculous and half baked. It's a story built entirely on a foundation of convenience and it essentially brutalizes the earlier Craig films into victims of the same convenience now. The Hinx issue is that he serves no purpose in the greater narrative because his actions don't slow Bond down or alter the mission. If you completely removed the fight on the train... does it change the movie IN ANY WAY????

No... it's action for action sake and it doesn't make sense even within the already lazy story that is SPECTRE.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Maybe you should stop watching Hollywood movies then if you're going to complain about them being the same every time you watch one. It's not that they're rolling out the same stuff, it just that you keep going to watch the same stuff.

To be fair to him, it's literally the exact same thing they did in skyfall. It's not like they had five films in between. They had a major plot point in back to back films be the validity of the program.

[Edword]

Originally Posted by bluearth

I really dont like heavy handed usage of tropes, and when Bond 'loses his badge' 5 minutes into the film and the whole 'your and your program is outdated and not needed anymore so we're shutting you down' cliche is recycled for the 1000th time, all I can do is roll my eyes. At this point Hollywood must think the audience is full of idiots, because they're not even trying to be discreet anymore with their laziness.

2/5

I'm not sure I've ever seen bluearth actually enjoy a movie

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Cliff

So if I understand you correctly, your argument seems to be, "the flaw I'm point out can't be true because there is another, bigger plothole that contradicts it?"

Unfortunately, you've started out with an assumption about the nature of organisations, and Hinx's place in Spectre, and that assumption has confused you to the point where you believe there is an inconsistency. There is no inconsistency.

Originally Posted by Cliff

Thanks! You just made my argument for me.

I don't think you know what that is any more. Every time I poke a hole in the withered balloon that is your story, you claim it somehow proves your argument.

Originally Posted by Cliff

The Hinx issue is that he serves no purpose in the greater narrative because his actions don't slow Bond down or alter the mission.

You could say the same for most of the ineffective henchmen in just about any of the Bond films.

Originally Posted by Cliff

If you completely removed the fight on the train... does it change the movie IN ANY WAY????

Of course it does, you've removed an exciting action sequence, and you've removed an antagonist from one part of the narrative. I suppose you'd prefer 20 minutes of Bond and Swann looking out the train window into the desert like a couple of tourists? This is what you seem to be advocating. I like the Hinx fight sequence because I see nothing inconsistent about Hinx's actions...he's a henchman of a villain and Bond is getting in the way of the villain's grand plan

[Show spoiler](9 Eyes).

I think if you watch the other 24 Bond movies you'll find most of them follow a similar pattern.

Originally Posted by Cliff

No... it's action for action sake

In a James Bond film?? No, I don't believe you!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Besides, do you really think OHMSS' original plot concerning genealogy and allergies would have worked for audiences today? Do you think the premise of YOLT, where Bond is disguised as Asian would be accepted today?

It would be a mix of Who Do You Think You Are? and biological warfare, so it would work perfectly! Mix in Dancing With Stars and it would be a box-office phenomena.

Certain things would need to be updated, but that's what would make the an exciting prospect.

[Blu Titan]

I watched it again, this time with the family . Very good Bond movie..solid. Batista was great as the goon and I am sure he will be back.

8.5/10

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Unfortunately, you've started out with an assumption about the nature of organisations, and Hinx's place in Spectre, and that assumption has confused you to the point where you believe there is an inconsistency. There is no inconsistency.

Sure there is... I've gotten that Hinx has the autonomy to go after Bond as he sees fit and also that he's just lowly new SPECTRE muscle that the leader of SPECTRE wouldn't even know the name of. I didn't create that inconsistency... you did. The fact that SPECTRE both doesn't know they're coming and ALSO sends a car to retrieve them is, sorry, another inconsistency. And even if it plays out exactly as you say:

[Show spoiler]Hinx tracks Bond and Swan to the train, is dispatched for convenience, Bond and Swan show up at station, SPECTRE suddenly realizes they're there and sends the Rolls Royce, it makes SPECTRE and Blofeld the most ineffectual evil organization in the world. Lots of "tentacles" that don't know what the others are doing, especially with an agent that has been the subject of an unusual amount of SPECTRE attention.

Just because you didn't think to question the stupidity doesn't make it less stupid.

Originally Posted by lemonski

I don't think you know what that is any more. Every time I poke a hole in the withered balloon that is your story, you claim it somehow proves your argument.

My point is that SPECTRE is a terrible Bond movie and nothing you have said has poked a hole in that.

Originally Posted by lemonski

You could say the same for most of the ineffective henchmen in just about any of the Bond films.Of course it does, you've removed an exciting action sequence, and you've removed an antagonist from one part of the narrative. I suppose you'd prefer 20 minutes of Bond and Swann looking out the train window into the desert like a couple of tourists? This is what you seem to be advocating. I like the Hinx fight sequence because I see nothing inconsistent about Hinx's actions...he's a henchman of a villain and Bond is getting in the way of the villain's grand plan

[Show spoiler](9 Eyes).

I think if you watch the other 24 Bond movies you'll find most of them follow a similar pattern.

So now Hinx has gone from member of SPECTRE with the power to go after Bond as he chooses to "ineffective henchman?" Again... the less I say, the more you validate my issues.

Originally Posted by lemonski

In a James Bond film?? No, I don't believe you!

The good/best Bond films have action that motivates or serves the story. EVERY action scene in Casino Royale has a purpose. There is nothing that you could simply pull out entirely. The Hinx fight doesn't do anything except

[Show spoiler]get rid of Hinx

. Whether or not that was "good enough" for you is on you, but it wasn't good enough for me (or many others).

[toddly6666]

In Casino Royale, didnt they also inject a GPS into him but they didnt take anything further with that?

[Gamma_Winstead]

Just got out of seeing this. I certainly enjoyed it, and found it entertaining. The score was pretty darn good, Craig was great, Q was great, etc. it really flew by too. The problems though?

[Show spoiler]For one, nothing fricken happened in the movie. I have no idea how this ended up being two and a half hours. Honestly, specter didn't even put up a fight as far as bond tracking them down. We constantly hear how specter knows and sees everything, yet somehow they're always behind bond? They literally had the phone conversation between Bond and Moneypenny recorded. How did they not send Hinx there first? They had the conversation between Bond and Mr White recorded too, so how did they not stop him a L'American? Why did Hinx show up on the train when bond was just heading to them anyways? None of it made much sense to be honest.

Not only that, but Jesus. We have two and a half hours but NONE of that was spent on creating a believable relationship between Bond and Swann. She shows up, hates him, falls in love with him, and convinces him to stop being an agent... HOW?? They talked like TWICE. That's it! He had more development with the girl from Quantum of Solace! Not to mention the fact that apparently that film doesn't exist anymore apparently. They avoided mentioning any of the characters in that film. Which made Blofields "all the women in your life end up dead" line a head scratcher... Since... Olga's character didn't die. And he only cares about two of those women. One of whom, Vesper, commited SUICIDE. She wasn't murdered by Blofield.

Also, seriously. What the hell was the point of Hinx? How the hell can you waste a character like that so severely? You can literally edit him out of the film after the car crash. Nothing would be different, other than giving Swann and Bond a (crappy) reason to bang. In fact, I actually wished they had. He ended up dying like a punk. In fact, how the hell did he even get on the train anyways?

Blofields motivation was horrible too. "My daddy paid more attention to you than me, so I killed him and decided to stalk you like a creeper." That's it? Seriously? Why not have bond leave him and his father for dead or something?How did he manage to create Spectre with the leadership skills of a chipmunk? The meeting scene was laughable. He just sat there and had everyone walk over to him. Waltz wasn't intimidating in the slightest. He commanded no respect whatsoever.

Also, Bond and Swanns escape from the facility was stupid. He just magically hits every single person, while standing in the open, after having two holes drilled in his head. I mean come on. Couldn't Swann have done something to help? I respect the fact that Bond put his cheat codes in early, but still.

As far as the resolution, was there any? All they have is the dead body of C, and M and company breaking in to the facility when they weren't supposed to. They have the word of Blofield, I guess, but no one knows who the heck he is!

So yeah. Brain dead plot, but entertaining none the less. The Intro was great, but Sam Smith will never be listened to by me ever again. The song is perfectly fine, he just sings like someone bashed his balls with a rope.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Just got out of seeing this. I certainly enjoyed it, and found it entertaining. The score was pretty darn good, Craig was great, Q was great, etc. it really flew by too. The problems though?

[Show spoiler]For one, nothing fricken happened in the movie. I have no idea how this ended up being two and a half hours. Honestly, specter didn't even put up a fight as far as bond tracking them down. We constantly hear how specter knows and sees everything, yet somehow they're always behind bond? They literally had the phone conversation between Bond and Moneypenny recorded. How did they not send Hinx there first? They had the conversation between Bond and Mr White recorded too, so how did they not stop him a L'American? Why did Hinx show up on the train when bond was just heading to them anyways? None of it made much sense to be honest.

Not only that, but Jesus. We have two and a half hours but NONE of that was spent on creating a believable relationship between Bond and Swann. She shows up, hates him, falls in love with him, and convinces him to stop being an agent... HOW?? They talked like TWICE. That's it! He had more development with the girl from Quantum of Solace! Not to mention the fact that apparently that film doesn't exist anymore apparently. They avoided mentioning any of the characters in that film. Which made Blofields "all the women in your life end up dead" line a head scratcher... Since... Olga's character didn't die. And he only cares about two of those women. One of whom, Vesper, commited SUICIDE. She wasn't murdered by Blofield.

Also, seriously. What the hell was the point of Hinx? How the hell can you waste a character like that so severely? You can literally edit him out of the film after the car crash. Nothing would be different, other than giving Swann and Bond a (crappy) reason to bang. In fact, I actually wished they had. He ended up dying like a punk. In fact, how the hell did he even get on the train anyways?

Blofields motivation was horrible too. "My daddy paid more attention to you than me, so I killed him and decided to stalk you like a creeper." That's it? Seriously? Why not have bond leave him and his father for dead or something?How did he manage to create Spectre with the leadership skills of a chipmunk? The meeting scene was laughable. He just sat there and had everyone walk over to him. Waltz wasn't intimidating in the slightest. He commanded no respect whatsoever.

Also, Bond and Swanns escape from the facility was stupid. He just magically hits every single person, while standing in the open, after having two holes drilled in his head. I mean come on. Couldn't Swann have done something to help? I respect the fact that Bond put his cheat codes in early, but still.

As far as the resolution, was there any? All they have is the dead body of C, and M and company breaking in to the facility when they weren't supposed to. They have the word of Blofield, I guess, but no one knows who the heck he is!

So yeah. Brain dead plot, but entertaining none the less. The Intro was great, but Sam Smith will never be listened to by me ever again. The song is perfectly fine, he just sings like someone bashed his balls with a rope.

Good assessment . What do think of this

[Show spoiler]I believe that the dude getting the money play from Ms. Moneypenny is out own Q

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Good assessment . What do think of this

[Show spoiler]I believe that the dude getting the money play from Ms. Moneypenny is out own Q

Haha

[Show spoiler]that'd certainly make for an interesting dynamic, that's for sure!

[RageATL]

Caught this over the weekend and it was OK. I tried to ignore the lukewarm reviews and just enjoy myself and on that merit, I was entertained. But agreed some plot points were either unexplained or just plain didn't hold up upon further scrutiny. I'll buy it simply because I am a Bond fan, enjoy Craig's version and own the other 3 films, but I imagine it will have just a smidgen more replay value than QoS which is not very much.

I will say that I agree with the majority of the reviews that said that Craig seems disinterested.

[Hindustani]

1/2

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Just got out of seeing this. I certainly enjoyed it, and found it entertaining. The score was pretty darn good, Craig was great, Q was great, etc. it really flew by too. The problems though?

[Show spoiler]For one, nothing fricken happened in the movie. I have no idea how this ended up being two and a half hours. Honestly, specter didn't even put up a fight as far as bond tracking them down. We constantly hear how specter knows and sees everything, yet somehow they're always behind bond? They literally had the phone conversation between Bond and Moneypenny recorded. How did they not send Hinx there first? They had the conversation between Bond and Mr White recorded too, so how did they not stop him a L'American? Why did Hinx show up on the train when bond was just heading to them anyways? None of it made much sense to be honest.

Not only that, but Jesus. We have two and a half hours but NONE of that was spent on creating a believable relationship between Bond and Swann. She shows up, hates him, falls in love with him, and convinces him to stop being an agent... HOW?? They talked like TWICE. That's it! He had more development with the girl from Quantum of Solace! Not to mention the fact that apparently that film doesn't exist anymore apparently. They avoided mentioning any of the characters in that film. Which made Blofields "all the women in your life end up dead" line a head scratcher... Since... Olga's character didn't die. And he only cares about two of those women. One of whom, Vesper, commited SUICIDE. She wasn't murdered by Blofield.

Also, seriously. What the hell was the point of Hinx? How the hell can you waste a character like that so severely? You can literally edit him out of the film after the car crash. Nothing would be different, other than giving Swann and Bond a (crappy) reason to bang. In fact, I actually wished they had. He ended up dying like a punk. In fact, how the hell did he even get on the train anyways?

Blofields motivation was horrible too. "My daddy paid more attention to you than me, so I killed him and decided to stalk you like a creeper." That's it? Seriously? Why not have bond leave him and his father for dead or something?How did he manage to create Spectre with the leadership skills of a chipmunk? The meeting scene was laughable. He just sat there and had everyone walk over to him. Waltz wasn't intimidating in the slightest. He commanded no respect whatsoever.

Also, Bond and Swanns escape from the facility was stupid. He just magically hits every single person, while standing in the open, after having two holes drilled in his head. I mean come on. Couldn't Swann have done something to help? I respect the fact that Bond put his cheat codes in early, but still.

As far as the resolution, was there any? All they have is the dead body of C, and M and company breaking in to the facility when they weren't supposed to. They have the word of Blofield, I guess, but no one knows who the heck he is!

So yeah. Brain dead plot, but entertaining none the less. The Intro was great, but Sam Smith will never be listened to by me ever again. The song is perfectly fine, he just sings like someone bashed his balls with a rope.

Apparently the answer to all your problems is not to ask questions in the first place. Ignore the stupid in the plot and it ceases to be stupid... or so I keep being told.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Cliff

By attempting to retroactively pull on all these strings to tie these Craig stories together, it essentially unravels the 3 films that came before. It creates scenarios and motivations that fly in the face of logic and deflate the earlier conflicts and all for a 3rd act resolution/reveal that nearly everyone agrees is ridiculous and half baked. It's a story built entirely on a foundation of convenience and it essentially brutalizes the earlier Craig films into victims of the same convenience now. The Hinx issue is that he serves no purpose in the greater narrative because his actions don't slow Bond down or alter the mission. If you completely removed the fight on the train... does it change the movie IN ANY WAY????

No... it's action for action sake and it doesn't make sense even within the already lazy story that is SPECTRE.

Except that that

[Show spoiler]Blofeld could be lying about controlling

all that came before it. He may be aware of it due to his extensive intelligence gathering and lying to Bond that he had anything to do with it.

And while I didn't like Hinx either (he didn't have the humor of Oddjob), that train fight was a homage to the

[Show spoiler]fight between Bond and Robert Shaw's character in "From Russia with Love".

Did that fight change anything in that plot other than indicating that Bond had lots of enemies and confrontations? Same here.

[RageATL]

While Hinx was a bad ass, he really served no purpose in the story at all other than to set up action sequences.

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Batista was great as the goon and I am sure he will be back.

While we've seen stranger things in previous Bond films, I would have to think he died after being thrown from a moving train, so I wouldn't be so sure he'll be back.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by RageATL

While Hinx was a bad ass, he really served no purpose in the story at all other than to set up action sequences.




While we've seen stranger things in previous Bond films, I would have to think he died after being thrown from a moving train, so I wouldn't be so sure he'll be back.

Jaws in THE SPY WHO LOVED ME immediately comes to mind.....

[RageATL]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

Jaws in THE SPY WHO LOVED ME immediately comes to mind.....

Fair enough but I more meant in the Craig era/version.