HP Change's it's mind on Blu-ray

[Blue]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

The problem is that iHD is better than Java for interactivity. HP simply came to their senses on this one.

Even if iHD is a little better at interactivity - so what. Is Java BD more than adequate, I'm certain the answer is YES. I now suspect I know why Intel is in the middle of this. As I have mentioned before JavaBD is more than a menu system, it's a "control" system. I'm sure this is closer to an operating system than an application. Java was designed to run applications (applets) on many differing platforms. We also know that Intel has made at least one attempt into the Consumer Electronics space (the LCOS disaster) - so could it be possible that all iHD (HD-DVD) players will have an "Intel inside", whereas Java is designed as a much more open source allowing for all sorts of hardware.

Or are they just looking at the bigger picture. The A/V setup will change. At the moment there is DVD player, Control Amplifier Power Amplifier (normally in the one box called a Receiver). The Control Amplifier is about to be replaced with a Media Centre and will also replace Joe Averages computer (Gamers, Workplaces etc will still have computers as we know them). Logically the BD player will find it's way into the middle the Media Centre. I think the box may become too big to contain the Power amplifier as well, but potentially there will be one box that does it all.

With many companies looking seriously at ditching M$ for LINUX & Sun etc, they could very easily be knocked off their top spot. Just remember IBM thought PC's were a passing fad that deserved to be ignored - it's hard to imagine now, that they were once the all powerful and only IT company in the world (they even dictated the colour shirts pants and ties employees could wear). I think Microsoft can see the writing on the wall and while they are still in a position of power and influence they intend to do something about. For years we have heard about how computers will open up competition. The first to feel the new world are the all mighty Telco's with VOIP). Is M$ going to be next? They are at least smart - they have learnt their lessons from IBM and will savagely attack any potential threat.

This is not even going near the War of the game consoles (XBOX vs Playstation) is Intel in the XBOX?

[GI2K]

No Intel is not in the Xbox 360 nor on the PS3, the Xbox 360 is ATI/IBM (PPC CPU) and the PS3 is nVIDIA (I think)/ IBM and SONY (CELL CPU)...

I really don’t see why Intel moved to the HD-DVD side, there's no real reason for them to support either of them… hmm unless they are somewhat scared of the CELL processor since it will compete with the Intel cpus on the server and supercomputers market.

[hmurchison]

Even if iHD is a little better at interactivity - so what. Is Java BD more than adequate,

I don't think so and here's why.

Java is a programming language so in order to author in Java you have to do multiple compiles of your code. That takes time and energy.

You can't license "Java Lite" you have to license the whole shebang so you need to store every single Java class even though you only use what %10 ?

Choosing Java made absolutely no sense. It's the more expensive solution in licensing and programming effort. It smells of appeasment to Sun Microsystems.

Can you point us to a source or maybe even several sources (hopefully unbiased) which directly compares the capabilities of these two (iHD versus BD's Java based system)?

Dude just use your brain. Can you program Java? I know I can't but I know I can use a static markup language like XML and let the authoring program handling linking my AV elements. iHD support dual streams for PIP from the start. Blu Ray just had to go back and graft this feature in.

HD DVD authors are going to laugh like crazy everytime they see a Blu Ray author compiling just to see their menus.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I don't think so and here's why.

Java is a programming language so in order to author in Java you have to do multiple compiles of your code. That takes time and energy.

You can't license "Java Lite" you have to license the whole shebang so you need to store every single Java class even though you only use what %10 ?

Choosing Java made absolutely no sense. It's the more expensive solution in licensing and programming effort. It smells of appeasment to Sun Microsystems.

You don't need to store every single Java class even though you only use 10%. Once the environment is compiled and runs you only need to store the executable on each device. This is no different than any other version of a programming language. Java is no different than some other languages which can be done as either interpreted, compiled to intermediate code or compiled to machine code (Pascal, BASIC, etc.). It is just a more modern implementation of these.

And what do you think the engine for Microsoft's iHD is written in? It's not XML. It is most likely C# and .Net (though I'm not part of Microsoft's programming team so I don't know for certain).

And in the long run, a Microsoft proprietary implementation is going to be less expensive? Since when? Microsoft is most definitely NOT in this as a form of public philanthropy. No one knows what costs will be incurred two or three years from now for licensing the code which has been installed on any individual player.

There are Java implementations on cell phones in which the entire phone costs less than $50 (not counting phone company rebates which often make the phones "free" under certain circumstances). This would imply that the cost/license for each end item shipped with a Java implementation is very, very inexpensive.

There is no guarantee that Microsoft won't charge significant fees for each and every player shipped. Once Microsoft had established itself as a commanding market leader its prices have invariably escalated. Have you priced Microsoft Office lately?

Finally, there are many rumors floating around that Microsoft is offering cash incentives to companies to support iHD and HD DVD. Microsoft is not stupid. No one can ever legitimately say Microsoft is dumb when it comes to business. If Microsoft is trying to pay people to support their iHD implementation you can be 100% certain they expect to make that money back 1,000 times over once thier software becomes the standard and all other implemetation have a small fraction of the market.

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Dude just use your brain. Can you program Java? I know I can't but I know I can use a static markup language like XML and let the authoring program handling linking my AV elements. iHD support dual streams for PIP from the start. Blu Ray just had to go back and graft this feature in.

HD DVD authors are going to laugh like crazy everytime they see a Blu Ray author compiling just to see their menus.

Pure obfuscation. You didn't even try to answer the question.

But to answer yours, I've done a little in Java (but I've also done programming in a half dozen other languages too, most extensively in Pascal, Fortran [and FORTRAN too] and a few assembler languages but also in C, C++, COBOL, SNOBOL, and a couple data base environments).

Just because you can use parts of XML does not make it better. Just because you can hack something together using XML does not mean that someone else can't make something 10 times better using something else. XML is not a programming language. Codes written utilizing XML do not really do anything by themselves. They need something to interpret that code (just as a typical browser reads HTML code). Thus iHD has software within it which interprets the XML tags. This iHD software is proprietary to Microsoft. You can't change it. You won't get to have anywhere near as much flexibility as you might expect because Microsoft's software will decide what parts of XML you can use and can't and how you can implement them and can't. Microsoft has NEVER been 100% standards compliant on any implementation they have ever done. I don't expect them to start now.

With regard to "grafting" something in... well, that is the beauty of a true programming environment. It's not grafted. It's added into the code base and compiled into a new working copy. When code is updated intelligently, the new software just has the new funcitonality.

But getting back to my original question which you ignored... can you point to one or more references which explain how the CAPABILITIES of iHD are better than the Java implementation in Blu-ray? What necessary bit of functionality can iHD do that the Java implementation in BD does not? What does iHD implement in a significantly better fashion (as the average consumer -- not programmer -- would see it)? What does the iHD implementation do faster and more efficiently than the Java implementation in BD?