Blu-ray.com Film Tournament Idea Thread!! Suggestions Are Needed??

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

whats up Czar.... nice, taking the initiative of what we talked about! i like the above genres minus the romance/romantic comedy.... just feel its not needed.....thoughts?

I included it because it is a major genre (romantic comedies as a whole gross the most amount of any genre most years, unless you have a film like Avatar out there!)

Not to mention, ppl responded favorably to the thread I started about the genre a few weeks ago.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

If it were to be done by Genre... why exclude one of them?

Logan

lol... becuase i personally cant see any romance or romantic comedy winning against anything in a poll....

[Briscogun]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

I actually think it's a great idea, not sure why someone automatically gave your thread 1 star.


What's gonna be difficult is getting the 64 movies that will compete. I would say pick only best picture winners, but not everyone has seen all those films (not even myself!). So maybe the top eight films in each of the following eight categories. Then you seed them all like for a normal tourney. To get the top eight, look back at some of the old threads. You def can find the top eight for sci-fi, romance/romantic comedy, and horror because we've had threads about them.



War
Sci-Fi
Comedy
Romance/romantic comedy
Action/adventure
Animated (even though it's not a genre, but a medium)
Drama
Horror

I love the concept, however... the problem with this format is that certain genre's are going to have many more worthy entries, such Drama versus Comedy. We could come up with 64 worthy drama films alone. Even though a horror movie may be "good", I don't think anyone can make a cogent arguement for a "Horror Movie as Best Film of All Time" debate, though.

Most "bracket style" tournaments have 4 quadrants, so realistically, you would need 4 "categories", or genres. There is a radio station out where I live that is doing this exact same thing right now, but they are breaking it up into decades (last year they did movies, this year it's TV shows). So it's: 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. If you did that here, though, that would leave a TON of worthy movies off the list.

And don't just default to Best Picture winners. Time has shown that the winners are not always the best film, but merely the "winner" in that moment.

There is a lot of merit to keeping genre versus genre, though, as stated above. I mean, it's easier to pit sci-fi vs. sci-fi. Aliens vs. Blade Runner? There's a good debate! Aliens vs. Airplane? Get's a little stickier... maybe that's the best option? Do one "tournament" for each genre, then put those top seeds up against each other in a "final bracket"? Would take longer, but would silence the critics?

This is the problem: no matter what "format" you come up with, 100 people will always find 100 things or entries that you omitted. Just know going in that you will NOT be able to please probably even half the people involved. If you do the work, though, I will happily and quietly participate, no complaints from me. If we're not organizing it, we lose the ability to throw Czar under the bus when we don't like the results!

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

lol... becuase i personally cant see any romance or romantic comedy winning against anything in a poll....

I think some definitely could. Casablanca versus the 8th seeded action film?

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

But a movie's gross has nothing to do with the quality of the film, so there'd be a lot of action/fantasy films in and not great films like 12 Angry Men, Schindler's List, etc.

I don't think CZAR mentioned anything about quality for it, he's just looking for a suggestion of 64 films to have a fun tournament.

Logan

[Lacit170]

I say you break it up into 8 categories.... as previously mentioned... i say take out romantic and switch to something like sports or whatever.... doesnt matter though... either way....

8 movies per genre.... mix them up evenly and so you wont have the "greats" potentially matching up too early.... just like March madness does basically...

then to get the 8 movies from each genre.... do a poll for each genre??

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

I think some definitely could. Casablanca versus the 8th seeded action film?

no, i know 1 could win... but its like the "dark hose" of march madness.... noone expects them to win... and when they do... its usually 1 or 2 rounds.... i just feel you could have better movies in the tournament and leave out romantic.... just my opinion... either way itll be cool to do

[Lacit170]

also... another simple way to "pick" the movies for each genre... i dont know how many people have Flickchart.... but you can go into each genre there and see what your top movies are.... people could just copy and paste say their top 10 or top 20... look at all the results... and take the top 8 from everyones list??

time consuming i know but we could all help out?

[CZAR]

Originally Posted by Briscogun

I love the concept, however... the problem with this format is that certain genre's are going to have many more worthy entries, such Drama versus Comedy. We could come up with 64 worthy drama films alone. Even though a horror movie may be "good", I don't think anyone can make a cogent arguement for a "Horror Movie as Best Film of All Time" debate, though.

Most "bracket style" tournaments have 4 quadrants, so realistically, you would need 4 "categories", or genres. There is a radio station out where I live that is doing this exact same thing right now, but they are breaking it up into decades (last year they did movies, this year it's TV shows). So it's: 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. If you did that here, though, that would leave a TON of worthy movies off the list.

And don't just default to Best Picture winners. Time has shown that the winners are not always the best film, but merely the "winner" in that moment.

There is a lot of merit to keeping genre versus genre, though, as stated above. I mean, it's easier to pit sci-fi vs. sci-fi. Aliens vs. Blade Runner? There's a good debate! Aliens vs. Airplane? Get's a little stickier... maybe that's the best option? Do one "tournament" for each genre, then put those top seeds up against each other in a "final bracket"? Would take longer, but would silence the critics?

This is the problem: no matter what "format" you come up with, 100 people will always find 100 things or entries that you omitted. Just know going in that you will NOT be able to please probably even half the people involved. If you do the work, though, I will happily and quietly participate, no complaints from me. If we're not organizing it, we lose the ability to throw Czar under the bus when we don't like the results!

I think that would make it more interesting to have other genre's goin head to head. It would spice up the debate and make people really think and how to compare them overall. Got Em!!

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I don't think CZAR mentioned anything about quality for it, he's just looking for a suggestion of 64 films to have a fun tournament.

Logan

Well I am opened to both. I definitely want it to be fun but I would also want quality films as well. A good mixture of what people want is fine with me.

As for if we do 8 genre's (4 is not enough to cover all movies) this is the 8 I came up with:

Action
Adventure
Comedy
Drama
Horror/suspense/thriller
Sci-fi
Fantasy/superhero
Romance


Films like war movies etc.. could fall into drama as they are usually dramas so sub genre's like that are not needed as we can place them amongst the main genre's! Got Em!!

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by CZAR

I think that would make it more interesting to have other genre's goin head to head. It would spice up the debate and make people really think and how to compare them overall. Got Em!!




Well I am opened to both. I definitely want it to be fun but I would also want quality films as well. A good mixture of what people want is fine with me.

As for if we do 8 genre's (4 is not enough to cover all movies) this is the 8 I came up with:

Action
Adventure
Comedy
Drama
Horror/suspense/thriller
Sci-fi
Fantasy/superhero
Romance


Films like war movies etc.. could fall into drama as they are usually dramas so sub genre's like that are not needed as we can place them amongst the main genre's! Got Em!!

I dont really care what genres are chosen... but diff. genrtes should def go head to head... thats the fun of it...does noone have flickchart here??

[maidenbrain]

Great idea.

Genres that might also be considered: Western, Epic, Documentary

Genre that should be combined with another: isn't Romantic Comedy (e.g. 500 Days of Summer) just a subgenre of Comedy and Romance (e.g. The Notebook) a subgenre of Drama?

Genres that shouldn't be combined: Horror (e.g. The Omen, Hostel) and Suspense/Thriller (e.g. North By Northwest, Basic Instinct)

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by maidenbrain

Genre that should be combined with another: isn't Romantic Comedy (e.g. 500 Days of Summer) just a subgenre of Comedy and Romance (e.g. The Notebook) a subgenre of Drama?

Genres that shouldn't be combined: Horror (e.g. The Omen, Hostel) and Suspense/Thriller (e.g. North By Northwest, Basic Instinct)

That's what I was thinking earlier; I belive that romance is simple an element of a story rather than its own genre, and movies that are considered romantic could fall under other genres. Most romantic comedies are comedies in essence. Tragic romance stories could classify as dramas. Somebody mentioned "Casablanca" earlier, but I always considered that as a film-noir crime crama rather than pure romance.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by CZAR

I think that would make it more interesting to have other genre's goin head to head. It would spice up the debate and make people really think and how to compare them overall. Got Em!!




Well I am opened to both. I definitely want it to be fun but I would also want quality films as well. A good mixture of what people want is fine with me.

As for if we do 8 genre's (4 is not enough to cover all movies) this is the 8 I came up with:

Action
Adventure
Comedy
Drama
Horror/suspense/thriller
Sci-fi
Fantasy/superhero
Romance


Films like war movies etc.. could fall into drama as they are usually dramas so sub genre's like that are not needed as we can place them amongst the main genre's! Got Em!!

Fantasy/Superhero should be seperate. Does superhero even qualify as a genere? Most can fit into action or even sci-fi. Other than that, that is a good mix of genres.

Maybe have a seperate thread for each genre, and take the "top 8" from each genre to be entered. Maybe have a point system similar to what Romulus has used?

[Steve46]

I like the idea of a 64-movie tournament.

There are obviously problems deciding how to pick the 64.

My question would be what is the overall aim of this tournament? We already have an idea of what is popular from the threads already started by Romulus (although no direct competition between genres).

Are we trying to highlight movies that some of us haven't seen so that we can benefit by seeing them?

Are we trying to see what the consensus best movies are?

Are we looking for the consensus favorite movies?

If we go by popularity - stuff that everyone has seen - we will come up with a very familiar looking list. Nobody will really benefit from it other than seeing their favorites do well. Not that I am saying it would be a bad thing. I just think we should decide what we are aiming at as it would directly affect which 64 we start with.

[CZAR]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

Fantasy/Superhero should be seperate. Does superhero even qualify as a genere? Most can fit into action or even sci-fi. Other than that, that is a good mix of genres.

Maybe have a seperate thread for each genre, and take the "top 8" from each genre to be entered. Maybe have a point system similar to what Romulus has used?

That is a good idea. I have actually went over some films and came up with 64. Not a whole lot of research but just an idea. Here are the movies I came up with so let me know what u guys think. Again this isnt the final list, just a starting point:

Action
Die Hard
Taken
Aliens
True Lies
Predator
Man On Fire
Blade
300

Sci-Fi
The Terminator
Blade Runner
2001
Alien
T-2
The Matrix
E.T.
Back to the Future

Horror
The Exorcist
Halloween
The Shining
Jaws
Friday the 13th
A Nightmare on Elm Street
Psycho
The Thing

Drama
The Godfather
Shawshank Redemption
Forrest Gump
Pulp Fiction
Braveheart
Schindler's List
Goodfellas
Lawrence of Arabia

Fantasy/Superhero
Lord of the Rings
Star Wars
The Dark Knight
Avatar
The Wizard of Oz
King Kong
Superman
Pan's Labyrinth

Adventure/Disaster
Raiders of the Lost Ark
ID4
Armaggeddon
The Abyss
Pirates of the Caribbean
Harry Potter
Up
The Poseidon Adventure

Comedy
Coming to America
Spaceballs
Airplane
The Hangover
Trading Places
Blues Brothers
Animal House
Dumb and Dumber

Romance
Cant Buy Me Love
Titanic
Atonement
The Fountain
Romeo & Juliet
Gone With the Wind
Casablanca
Ghost

A problem that did occur is some of these films have sequels that may be justified to be on the list als like POTC, LOTR, HP etc......So should we just take the first one only and u judge it off the first one or do we add the sequels and if so that would mean other movies would have to come off and I would rather have different films then a bunch of the same films. Thoughts? Got Em!!

[Steve46]

Originally Posted by CZAR

A problem that did occur is some of these films have sequels that may be justified to be on the list als like POTC, LOTR, HP etc......So should we just take the first one only and u judge it off the first one or do we add the sequels and if so that would mean other movies would have to come off and I would rather have different films then a bunch of the same films. Thoughts? Got Em!!

I can think of three problems immediately:

1) How to choose the 64
2) How to decide which genre a movie belongs in
3) Movies that are seen by most people will inevitably dominate the voting

There are 13 on your initial list that I have never seen and a bunch that I have seen but don't remember at all as it was so long ago.

[CZAR]

Originally Posted by Steve46

I can think of three problems immediately:

1) How to choose the 64
2) How to decide which genre a movie belongs in
3) Movies that are seen by most people will inevitably dominate the voting

There are 13 on your initial list that I have never seen and a bunch that I have seen but don't remember at all as it was so long ago.

Well as far as what films people have seen, I dont think we realy can avoid that problem but hopefully the films we choose for the most part are films that have been seen by the majority of the voters. Also Im starting to think we dont have to necessarily have 8 films from each genre. But just the top 64 Chosen. I think I am gonna do what someone earlier referred to. Make a poll for each genre and list like 20 films from that genre and make it multiple voting for a day or so and then shoose the top 8 from the votes recieved. i think that will clear up the matter. Got Em!!

[toef]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

But a movie's gross has nothing to do with the quality of the film, so there'd be a lot of action/fantasy films in and not great films like 12 Angry Men, Schindler's List, etc.

Originally Posted by CZAR

Umm Im not sure if thats a good idea because a lot of great films would be left off, and not to mention a lot of sequels would make that type of list. I just dont think we would get the best films that way but I hear what u are sayin though. Got Em!!

True, but movies are going to be left out regardless of how you select them. It's not like we only have one shot at doing a tournament, so each one can have a theme, with one being "best highest grossing movie of all-time".

If whoever sets up the tournament picks what they think are the 64 best movies, then the tournament already falls apart, because it's just someone else's opinion of the 64 best movies. If we collectively come up with the top 64, why stop there? Why not figure out the top 2,000?

The reason the tournament works in basketball is that you can objectively tell the top teams,and there's a fixed, relatively low, number to begin with. The debate only really comes when deciding on the last few. With movies, someone's #1 might be someone else's #185. So I think the only way to do it is just go grab a list of movies from somewhere, and throw them onto a bracket.

Top 64 based on adjusted domestic box office is better than it sounds. There are only a few sequels on the list:

-The Empire Strikes back (is it worth arguing this shouldn't be considered?)
-Return of the Jedi (a little more arguable, but it's not a big deal)
-The Phantom Menace (technically not a sequel)
-Revenge of the Sith (ok, so maybe cut one of the SW movies off the list)
-The Dark Knight (if this isn't in the bracket, people will riot/boycott)
-Shrek 2 (it's better than Shrek 1, so not a big deal)
-Two Towers (group it with Fellowship since they were all made together = problem solved)
-Return of the King (same as above)
-Spider-Man 2 (at least it's not Spider-Man 3)

So 9 of the 64 movies are sequels (technically 7 of the 64). You can easily cut it down to 7 (technically 5).

The list gives a nice sampling of genres (animation, drama, action, adventure, etc) and decades (every decade since the 30s is represented).

[Briscogun]

Originally Posted by Steve46

I like the idea of a 64-movie tournament.

There are obviously problems deciding how to pick the 64.

My question would be what is the overall aim of this tournament? We already have an idea of what is popular from the threads already started by Romulus (although no direct competition between genres).

Are we trying to highlight movies that some of us haven't seen so that we can benefit by seeing them?

Are we trying to see what the consensus best movies are?

Are we looking for the consensus favorite movies?

[QUOTE=Steve46;2844178]I can think of three problems immediately:

1) How to choose the 64
2) How to decide which genre a movie belongs in
3) Movies that are seen by most people will inevitably dominate the voting

QUOTE]

Aye, that's the rub...

I think the problem has already arisen. You can't treat each genre equally. Maybe there needs to be some sort of awards and/or top grossing film requirement to narrow the field?

No iffense to Czar's list, but already a film like True Lies should probably be replaced with Close Encounters, stuff like that.

If you are going for a Best/Favorite Movie poll, then don't worry about the equality of the genre, that will skew your brackets. I think it's more important to find the best movies, period. If that means 20 dramas and 5 comedies, then so be it.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Briscogun

Aye, that's the rub...

I think the problem has already arisen. You can't treat each genre equally. Maybe there needs to be some sort of awards and/or top grossing film requirement to narrow the field?

No iffense to Czar's list, but already a film like True Lies should probably be replaced with Close Encounters, stuff like that.

If you are going for a Best/Favorite Movie poll, then don't worry about the equality of the genre, that will skew your brackets. I think it's more important to find the best movies, period. If that means 20 dramas and 5 comedies, then so be it.

I say we go with Toefer's suggestion of the 'top 64' from the domestic adjusted for inflation, it's got a pretty good selection of hit titles, and popular, not to mention some that people will certainly disagree on when voting and tough choices as well.

Logan