Il Gattopardo di Luchino Visconti

[Dan8700]

Any comments about the Oz edition? Anyone got it, by any chance?

[Swearengen]

Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo

A darker transfer / gamma variation is one thing, but crushed blacks, as evidenced in these screengrabs, are something else...

Same could and was said about the Bram Stokers Dracula release. It was made from the answer print of the Coppola estate and should account for the directors initial vision. Even if crushed blacks should be inherent in some places on the blu-ray release, it doesn't ruin the theatrical experience.

If shown on "hardware" that has the ability to show very high native contrast, the cinematic experience shouldn't be compromised in any way, thus it should be close to impossible to determine crushed blacks in the dark.

Pictures should not be examined on PC monitors as screengrabs. Monitors has awful contrast and are very seldom, if ever, calibrated to D65. I agree that screengrabs are very good for determining detail, sharpness and grain structure, but the experience of dark levels depends highly on the equipment.

Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo

Nonetheless, this release (even moreso the French) is clearly light years beyond the Criterion - rich and lifelike, displaying a level of detail that a standard 35mm negative of the period could never yield (and an improvement that is clearly visible on any 1080P display, regardless of size).

Couldn't agree more!

[Dano16]

Furthermore I think the framing (1-2:55) is a bit wrong because in the scene where Burt Lancaster and the priest are in the carriage you can in the far left and right side see elements (part of the studio set) which are clearly not intended to be seen.

I have the French dvd, and don't see the 'unintended image' in that scene. I see a window on each side of the carriage, with a dark curtain covering each window. As the movement of the coach and the wind move the curtains, you can see the exterior of the carriage through the windows, but I don't see anything that shouldn't be seen by the viewer.

On the question of aspect ratio, there appears to be a tiny sliver of additional information at the top of the Criterion/BFI transfer, but not so much as to be significant (a contemporary theatrical presentation would have masked off far more information). Regarding the additional information at the sides of the restoration, I'd lean towards the idea that 2.2:1 is more authentic, however this ratio can be achieved on most displays and projectors using a slight zoom, therefore I don't consider it an issue either.

As for the aspect ratio, the image should probably be 2.35 or 2.39:1 (with slightly more picture info at the top of the frame) if you want something closer to correct theatrical framing, but the approximately 2.55:1 aspect ratio isn't that far off. It allows for a tighter image, as well as over-scanning on the sides of CRT televisions, rather than cutting off essential picture info (as the Criterion does). Films shot in Technirama have quite a bit of extra picture info on all four sides because the format allowed for normal image cropping (in the printer), similar to VistaVision.

A 2.21 theatre image would have more picture info, rather than less, so zooming in on the sides would mean seeing less of the frame than you'd see in a theatre. Of course, if you prefer a tighter, more TV-friendly image, zooming in might be the way to go. The Criterion framing is actually way off; it consistently crops more from the left side of the frame than the right, resulting in a lopsided, uncentered picture. Additionally, there's some panning and scanning on the Criterion (not a lot, but it's there), which is always a bad idea.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

If shown on "hardware" that has the ability to show very high native contrast, the cinematic experience shouldn't be compromised in any way, thus it should be close to impossible to determine crushed blacks in the dark. Pictures should not be examined on PC monitors as screengrabs. Monitors has awful contrast and are very seldom, if ever, calibrated to D65. I agree that screengrabs are very good for determining detail, sharpness and grain structure, but the experience of dark levels depends highly on the equipment.

Hi Swearengen - I'm looking at this on a calibrated grading monitor and the fact is, sadly, that detail has been discarded at the lower end of the colour spectrum, the best hardware in the world couldn't reverse this.

[Swearengen]

Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo

Hi Swearengen - I'm looking at this on a calibrated grading monitor and the fact is, sadly, that detail has been discarded at the lower end of the colour spectrum, the best hardware in the world couldn't reverse this.

As I said:

"Even if crushed blacks should be inherent in some places on the blu-ray release, it doesn't ruin the theatrical experience."

And the contrast ratio of the monitor is ... ? And how does the viewing experience compare, when watching Gattopardo on this monitor in a full controlled dark room to watching it on a 104" screen with a 100.000 contrast native projector?

I'm quite indifferent to loosing details, if it can be thought of as meaningful for the viewing experience. And having compared the three versions under same conditions, I absolutely prefer the Medusa version. Criterion looks good, but it is a completely different theatrical experience and I believe the darkish warm toned look, to be much more in compliance with and faithful to how movies looked theatrical in those days.

[Novecento]

Technical specs aside, what's the Tornatore documentary like? If I'm happy with my Criterion BD, is it worth buying the Medusa one for the documentary alone?

[Riki333]

Interestingly enough, it's a documentary about the producer of the film The Leopard, Goffredo Lombardo, shot with clips from interviews with more or less famous people of italian cinema who knew or with whom they worked, among others, there are interviews with Monicelli, Scola, Lina Wertmüller, Carlo Verdone, Enrico Medioli, the same Tornatore, and others who do not remember.
They put this documentary because the artistic and personal history of Goffredo Lombardo is closely connected with this film. Because of its exorbitant cost the Leopard, along with the failure of Sodom and Gomorrah (Robert Aldrich), caused the collapse of the empire of Titanus. Goffredo Lombardo was forced to sell many property and to leave film production.
But personally I would have preferred the extra focus on the director, the film or the author of the book from which it was taken, Giuseppe Tommasi di Lampedusa.
I did not like then the choice to do a cover where the two films are equated.

Saluti

[Novecento]

Thanks for the comments Riki. I'm a huge fan of Tornatore, but I'm not sure if I want to invest in this just for a documentary. Unfortunately I can't find any clips of it all on the internet.

It would also be nice to have another version of Il Gattopardo, but I'm still pretty happy with my Criterion BD. At least I was until I read all the above posts!

Originally Posted by Riki333

I did not like then the choice to do a cover where the two films are equated.

Yeh, the cover is really poor. Out of curiosity is it the size of a regular blu-ray slipcase?

[plabey]

I received the Australian disc today. No black level issue and the screencaps I took look like the French disc with slightly different colors.

compare to andreasy969's caps of the Italian disc:



compare to French caps hereL: http://criterioncast.com/2010/12/05/...e-restoration/



and one to match both the Italian and French caps:




Subs are pale yellow and appear outside the image frame (partially inside when its two lines). Also bdinfo from someone else here: http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/m...5-61a8831ce18f

[Dan8700]

Coooot, just awesome, lad. Thank you very much indeed.

[Novecento]

Thanks for the images Plabey.

Regarding the darkness of the Italian release, the Studio Daily article on the restoration has the following interesting comments by Rotunno:

“Giuseppe felt certain scenes should be darker, maybe the equivalent of a point darker,” says Persichetti. “I had played it a little on the bright side to be safe. He wanted me to pull down some of the highlights, and I incorporated that into the new color-correction.”

Persichetti noted that he and the cinematographer communicated a bit in Rotunno’s native tongue. “His one comment in Italian was molto misterioso: make it mysterious,” he says. “He was telling me to make it play a little darker, don’t be afraid of things going into the shadow.”

[andreasy969]

@plabey

Thank you for the caps.

Originally Posted by Novecento

Regarding the darkness of the Italian release, the Studio Daily article on the restoration has the following interesting comments by Rotunno:

Thank you for the info. Very interesting.


Since I own the Italian release, I am a little biased of course, but going by the screen shots I really do prefer the Italian release. The colors have much more punch and I like that. The other discs look a bit pale in comparison IMO. I do see what I would call black crush on the Italian release though, but that might as well be intentional.

I for one am happy with my Italian disc and will stick with it. Only the cover of the Italian digi pack really sucks big time as it looks like kludge (amazon.it does not show the actual cover by the way).

[Riki333]

Originally Posted by Novecento

Thanks for the comments Riki. Yeh, the cover is really poor. Out of curiosity is it the size of a regular blu-ray slipcase?

You're welcome.
The size is of a regular dvd slipcase.

Saluti

[Fitzcarraldo]

The Madman looks like one to own then, despite the yellow subs, although it's eye-wateringly expensive atm: $40AUD + shipping + duty = close to £/€50 to import this baby into the EU!

[RDA]

The Australian Madman Entertainment blu-ray is sourced from the restoration. I e-mailed Madman for confirmation on this who said: "Yes. The source we use for the Blu-ray release of 'The Leopard' is from the Film Foundation version."

Just ordered a copy direct from Madman: http://www.madman.com.au/catalogue/v...leopard-bluray for $36.73 AUD / £25.81 GBP all in to the UK.

Owned the BFI and Criterion releases, and have the Medusa release too which looks very good. Thought I might as well quadruple dip to compare the Madman release for myself!

[nitin]

RDA, would love to hear some comments from you about the Madman since you've had the Criterion and Medusa versions as a comparison point.

[RDA]

nitin, I'm guessing it will take a couple of weeks for the Madman blu-ray to arrive, but I will post some comments here as and when.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Nice, thanks for the link! That's going to end up around £35 after VAT and handling fees, but a far better price nonetheless.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo

The Madman looks like one to own then, despite the yellow subs, although it's eye-wateringly expensive atm: $40AUD + shipping + duty = close to £/€50 to import this baby into the EU!

the yellow subs had me worried, but having watched the disc tonight - (yes, it's been in my 'to watch' pile for quite some time) it didn't hinder the image as much as I had thought they would. The subs, are NOT like Sony's 'Big Bird yellow' that are prevailent on their foreign film DVD's, those subs are the most extreme and the most hideous, here though it's a light shade and not obtrusive.

as for the 4K restoration, my eyes were utterly transfixed to the screen. The colors, the sharpness, the dimensionality in some shots is simply astounding - during the first dinner sequence I almost wanted to reach in and move and touch the candles and glasses.

highly (highly) recommended!

[JackTwist]

I have debated on the Madman edition for six months since I got a region free blu-player as the Criterion is one of the most disappointing releases I have (despite the special features and packaging). I ordered and can't wait to see the difference... especially since the price dropped!!!!

What are the opinions of those who own it? We seem to only have feedback from one person.