WB pulls DVDs, BDs from Blockbuster

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by MrFattBill

It's crazy to think that buying and then renting over and over and over for profit like that is legal.

Bill

Yeah... riiiiiight. Which is exactly businesses like Blockbuster and Netflix were originally built on that premise - buy the things, then rent them.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

If they're already a rental business, then it should be legal. But if they're not, then it'll be illegal.

You're kidding, right? The First Sale doctrine doesn't allow for any restrictions. You can buy and rent as an individual or as a business. How many of us have sold DVDs and blu-rays on eBay? It is perfectly legal to rent, what you cannot do is show it somewhere and charge admission.

But buying to rent or to re-sell is 100% legal in all of the U.S., even if the studios would sometime have you believe otherwise:

No special new copyright protection was given to movies on video and DVD by the two above amendments, and consequently buyers of retail DVDs in the United States are free to sell or exchange them, and rent and lend them to others.
This right was underlined by the US courts in the case of NEBG v Weinstein,[4] in which a film-industry defendant accepted that it had no right to restrict buyers of DVDs from renting them to third parties.
Copyright owners sometimes affix warning notices to packaged DVDs, or display notices on screen before showing the content, which purport to list uses of the DVD that are forbidden under copyright law. Such notices do not always fairly reflect the buyer's legal rights established by the first-sale doctrine.[citation needed]

[MrFattBill]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

You're kidding, right? The First Sale doctrine doesn't allow for any restrictions. You can buy and rent as an individual or as a business. How many of us have sold DVDs and blu-rays on eBay? It is perfectly legal to rent, what you cannot do is show it somewhere and charge admission.

But buying to rent or to re-sell is 100% legal in all of the U.S., even if the studios would sometime have you believe otherwise:

This is what always baffles me. This is the same thing as renting to a large crowd all at once, lol.

I'm going to open a theater and it's free is you want to sit on the floor but $7.50 if you want a chair

Bill

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by MrFattBill

This is what always baffles me. This is the same thing as renting to a large crowd all at once, lol.

Bill

Well, usually it's only going to be 2-3 people watching it every time it gets rented. Sometimes it's also rented by college students, but they show it in a dorm room or something, so it's probably not considered "public exhibition". In any event, I'm not a lawyer so obviously I can't really give an informed opinion as to the details behind the First Sale doctrine, just know enough about it to be pretty sure it covers everybody, individuals and companies alike.

[SpaceDog]

Rental window delays are lame.

[Flatnate]

I have read that RedBox has been known to buy movies from retail locations to stock machines. They also implied that this practice was known to clear out local Wal-Marts leading to purchase limits of single titles.

What really slays me is Warner Bros announcement to pull the Harry Potter movies off the shelf at the end of the year to increase sales.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...dcliffe-252657

[Blue Bull]

They should lower the prices at the movies theaters then and have more people watch them when they come out then people would buy it if they wanted it when they first come out, lol. How lame is this? Movie get there second wind in the rental department and live for ever in the sales department. It would best to have people access them with no BS so they can make wise purchases Very few people are going to blind buy.

[Greenboom98]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I have read that RedBox has been known to buy movies from retail locations to stock machines. They also implied that this practice was known to clear out local Wal-Marts leading to purchase limits of single titles.

What really slays me is Warner Bros announcement to pull the Harry Potter movies off the shelf at the end of the year to increase sales.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...dcliffe-252657

So the buying window for HPDH2 is basically a month? Seriously WB? WOW Closer that Disney has ever come to that was with F&F2000 but that was a few months and not pulling them off the shelf. Know what this means? Scalpers scalping them all and reselling them for profit. I can see this happening if they are indeed doing that with HP series. I mean come on, most of the HP fans have seen or already own most the series anyways. What next? WB pulling LOTR EEs off the shelf to do the same thing? WB is just getting greedy with stupid moves like that. If they do that, when will the put them out again? X years from now? Losing money throughout the X years OOP. Really doubt WB is that stupid but who knows. Let's wait and see what happens.

[SwaggerJagger]

I don't think they're loosing much money.
They've been using the DVD Copy in the combo packs, so they're making their money two ways. $3 for DVD $3 for Blu-Ray and they usually run out New Release quickly, even Red Riding Hood is hard to find sometimes, at least at my Blockbuster.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by MrFattBill

I was thinking more of the legality of it. You just can't buy up movies and start a rental business, lol. If WB is telling them they have to wait the 28 days to rent and they decide to say screw it to WB and do it this way I bet WB won't take kindly to it.

Bill

you can, it is called the first sale-doctrine. When VHS launched it was all rental and copies where expensive. Eventually studios started selling "consumer copies" of movies and had "consumer" (lower price)and "rental" (higher price) but in the 80's some rental chains started buying consumer copies instead of rental and the studios brought them to court. The courts decided since the rental place bough a legal copy for private use and the copy was used for private use (seen in the renters home), and the copyright law says you can do what you want with your copies as long as they are used appropriately (i.e. you don't make copies and you don't use a private for public or broadcast) there is nothing wrong.


ON the other hand what happened is that in the 90's Blockbuster (and maybe other big chains) started revenue sharing with studios. So instead of buying a DVD from a store or distributor, BB would pay a small price per disk and a % of the rental fee for each rental. It is good for the rental chain since they can get more copies (and so the rental chain grows because it is more easily available there) and better for a studio since if thge movie is rented a lot it meant that they could make more money in the long run (for example I don't know the prices but let's say it was 20$ buy vs 5$ +1$ rental, if a store would buy 10 copies at 20$ = 200$ the old way and instead they went with 20 copies =100$ and they had 150 rentals the studio would make 250$ also several weeks later the y might keep one copy, a handful are thrown away and the rest sold as previously viewed.

And that is where we are today and why even though there is no issue with BB or anyone else getting private copies the reality is that the rental chains benefits from profit sharing enough to say OK to the terms.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

You're kidding, right? The First Sale doctrine doesn't allow for any restrictions. You can buy and rent as an individual or as a business. How many of us have sold DVDs and blu-rays on eBay? It is perfectly legal to rent, what you cannot do is show it somewhere and charge admission.

But buying to rent or to re-sell is 100% legal in all of the U.S., even if the studios would sometime have you believe otherwise:

yes, but you would still need to be a business if you rent. It would be tax fraud otherwise.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by MrFattBill

This is what always baffles me. This is the same thing as renting to a large crowd all at once, lol.

I'm going to open a theater and it's free is you want to sit on the floor but $7.50 if you want a chair

Bill

no, because it is still private use, I lent my POTC to my Bill, when he had it, I could not watch it. The same with a rental place, when you have a copy at your home no one else can watch it. If they charge and I don't, it does not matter and does not change anything about how the copy is used. On the other hand if you book a theatre and you have 100 people in it all those people are watching it at the same time (even if you don't charge them anything) and that means you need a public use copy because you are making a public exposition of it.

[William H Pratt]

I think they realize people still won't buy movies without renting them first

Not everyone! I haven't rented a Video since 1989. I KNOW what I want & I buy it!

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by William H Pratt

Not everyone! I haven't rented a Video since 1989. I KNOW what I want & I buy it!

So what happens to a movie you buy that doesn't live up to your expectations? Do you sell it or keep it?

[William H Pratt]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

So what happens to a movie you buy that doesn't live up to your expectations? Do you sell it or keep it?

I've ONLY purchased 1 film I thought was a mistaken purchase. "28 Days Later", a film that I thought ripped off G Romero & I thought the film was Horse Manure! I simply threw it in the garbage. As I said, I KNOW what I want when buying. Renting is a waste of money & a hassle.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

yes, but you would still need to be a business if you rent. It would be tax fraud otherwise.

Yes, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Yes, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

but it has everything to do with your post when you say

You can buy and rent as an individual or as a business

and continue with

It is perfectly legal to rent

you were the one that brought in the topic of individuals renting as opposed to a business renting (or BB which this thread is about). I was pointing out that you are right that an individual renting out his BDs/DVDs does not contravene copyright law but it is not perfectly legal because that would consist of tax evasion.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

So what happens to a movie you buy that doesn't live up to your expectations? Do you sell it or keep it?

I keep it. I see it simply as

buying movies is cheap: A movie that I realy care about I will buy when it comes out, a movie I know less about I could wait for a better price, but thye way I see it, I make more in the 1.5h+ that the movie will take to play, if I am worth that much why isn't a movie that will keep me entertained for that time?

it is way simpler than renting: if you do renting by mail you don't always have the film you want when you want, if it is at rental locations (store or vending machine) then yu have to take the time to go there and come back, and don't talk to me about streaming, I have no idea why people don't respect themselves and subject themselves to such crap.

if I ever want to see it again I can: I know in my first post I pointed out why once is enough o consider it cost effective, but the reality is with many films you will want to see them again for some reason. If it is in your library, that is easy, just put it in. But if it is buying for the second time the movie could be hard to find and if it is rental the rental place might only carry one copy and it is out or might have gotten rid of it to make room for other movies that rent more.

if I ever want to see it again I can: I know in my first post I pointed out why once is enought o consider it cost effective, but the reality is with many films you will want to see them again for some reason. If it is in your library, that is easy, just put it in. But if it is buying for the second time the movie could be hard to find and if it is rental the rental place might only carry one copy and it is out or might have gotten rid of it to make room for other movies that rent more.

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by William H Pratt

I've ONLY purchased 1 film I thought was a mistaken purchase. "28 Days Later", a film that I thought ripped off G Romero & I thought the film was Horse Manure! I simply threw it in the garbage. As I said, I KNOW what I want when buying. Renting is a waste of money & a hassle.

That movie did suck! Lol! Its a good thing I rented it.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

... I was pointing out that you are right that an individual renting out his BDs/DVDs does not contravene copyright law but it is not perfectly legal because that would consist of tax evasion.

Anthony, out of curiousity why would it be considered tax evasion if an individual rented out his BDs/DVDs? Are you assuming that the individual wouldn't report the income from the rentals.