Toshiba wants unified format

[hmurchison]

JTK

Done. Thanks for the advice

The Toshiba has a metal case. I find that preferrable to plastic. I find ethernet ports preferrable to card readers. I find USB ports handy as well. YMMV but few people in my "search" felt that there was parity between the Samsung player and Toshiba. Granted the Toshiba "is" boxy it's built from solid and durable materials. As always my opinion...feel free to disagree.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

JTK

Done. Thanks for the advice

The Toshiba has a metal case. I find that preferrable to plastic. I find ethernet ports preferrable to card readers. I find USB ports handy as well. YMMV but few people in my "search" felt that there was parity between the Samsung player and Toshiba. Granted the Toshiba "is" boxy it's built from solid and durable materials. As always my opinion...feel free to disagree.

What about function and performance? To their credit, the Toshiba firmware support seems to be helping some things along...when the firmware doesn't completely crash the unit cold, that is.

But the thing runs like an old Pentium PC, all the way. It does produce a nice picture and sound, but jeezuz, be honest with me: Does that thing REALLY feel and run next gen to you?

It's a glorified beta product to me. And the Samsung is about on the same level.

It's really two glorified beta products out there right now, but that's typical for first gen of anything in consumer electronics.

No big whoop. It is what it is.

I just laugh when I see some people try to pass either one of these players off like everything is just perfect and without flaws and the rest of it.

They couldn't be more wrong if they tried.

[hmurchison]

Yeah functionally the Sammy unit is better. That has me thinking if the Pentium 4 chip is just a stopgap until Toshiba decides on using the Cell processor a la the PS3.

Yeah both players exhibit rev 1 behaviour. Wonder what's cooking for 2nd gen stuff? Well I'm hopping on this train as soon as I can.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by JTK

I just laugh when I see some people try to pass either one of these players off like everything is just perfect and without flaws and the rest of it.

They couldn't be more wrong if they tried.

I have to show you all an example of some of the ABSURD hyperbole and grandiose overstatements that some of these folks have invented for these Toshiba players.

Sure, they're not junk, but this stuff is utterly absurd.

See for yourself: http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=25018

Read that first post and if you can stand it, and your gag reflex hasn't kicked in, look at how gullible some of the subsequent posters in that thread are.

That stuff is unbelievable.

[yvzpa]

Originally Posted by TooTallTom

(Removed)

You do have a strange preference, although I find it quite offensive.
How about keeping such remarks to yourself, I would prefer not to see them on a public forum.

Moderator's note: I have removed his comments. Please accept my apologies on his behalf.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by yvzpa

You do have a strange preference, although I find it quite offensive.
How about keeping such remarks to yourself, I would prefer not to see them on a public forum.

Yes, please. Do yourself and all of us a huge favor.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

that would be wonderful to see the best of both worlds all on one unified format. This would most likely really really really piss off any early adopters of hd dvd though.

Well for those who bought HD-dvd, it will be hard luck. If Toshiba wants to keep the customer base, they will offer them a trade in.

If Blu-ray does start using the HD-DVD codecs, that would be great, and supposedly, any blu-ray machine would only need a BIOS upgrade. Hopefully, they have a way of flash upgrading via a disc the user inserts.

I preached here MONTHS ago that the machines need to be flash upgradable. I can speculate and hope that is why Blu-ray is delayed. Not long after I posted a message that Sony should extend the olive branch, they did. And it seems I was quoted too! "We don't want to piss off the end user."

"Excellent." -Monty Burns

[Blue]

Originally Posted by tron3

If Blu-ray does start using the HD-DVD codecs, that would be great, and supposedly, any blu-ray machine would only need a BIOS upgrade.

Both formats are supposed to already include the same codecs - so no change required.


There is NO way a unified format can now be established unless either HD-DVD give up (I can't see that) or Blu Ray give up (I can't see that either) - however now is the time to do it as refunding a handful of players (and giving replacement discs - in the other format can be done as there are not many out there).
Everyone is is nervous, to carve up both formats and come up with a mangled format would be a disaster to High Definition. The general public - who will dictate and drive HD (not the early adopters) will not go near any of it. For the average DVD watcher most have TV's below 32" and frequently much smaller (at least in Australia) without using external speakers, so HD has little or no improvement.

Alas one format has to win - NOW is the time for that to happen, not in a number of years time as I fear it maybe.

[DaDane]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

JTK

Done. Thanks for the advice

The Toshiba has a metal case. I find that preferrable to plastic. I find ethernet ports preferrable to card readers. I find USB ports handy as well. YMMV but few people in my "search" felt that there was parity between the Samsung player and Toshiba. Granted the Toshiba "is" boxy it's built from solid and durable materials. As always my opinion...feel free to disagree.

So because Toshiba decided to include nice things like ethernet and USB and Samsung only decided to include a cardreader HD DVD is a better format than Blu-Ray?

This format war has run to long already! Come on guys, let's see some blood and get it over with. We want solid investments now, - or at the very least at christmas time, - but we all know it's not going to be this christmas

[JTK]

Originally Posted by JTK

I have to show you all an example of some of the ABSURD hyperbole and grandiose overstatements that some of these folks have invented for these Toshiba players.

Sure, they're not junk, but this stuff is utterly absurd.

See for yourself: http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=25018

Read that first post and if you can stand it, and your gag reflex hasn't kicked in, look at how gullible some of the subsequent posters in that thread are.

That stuff is unbelievable.

Gotta have some more fun cutting through this grandiose hyperbole that some people are swallowing sight unseen anyways.

I didn't write these comments so I want to put it quotes in case this person posts here under a different alias, but I thought his response to this link was a gem:

In order to handle the Blue Laser, Toshiba had to make a rock solid transport. They did. They also had to make a hefty chassis...... One of the things that makes a CD player play well is the transport mechanism. Vibration is the #1 enemy of CD's (DVD's too). So when making these unit's that's the first thing they start with. Next is the chassis. Again, vibration issues.
Quote:
The HD-DVD drive we pulled out of the thing has a standard 40-pin IDE interface, and when connected to an XP machine identifies itself as “_NEC HDDVD HR1100A“, which is a recently-released HD-DVD reader that also reads normal DVDs and CDs.

^^
"Let me get this right, First off the HD-DVD optical drive is a standard computer drive tray. Secondly they had to fit it in a hefty computer chassis. Then the author implies that "heft" is the cure to vibrations.

I'm going to sell a steal plate for $1000, you bolt it to the bottom of your CD or DVD player and it will make it sound just like a $6000 player!!!

Seriously though, when I was a kid I put those giant subwoofers in my car. I could only afford cheap amps, at first they were very light weight compared to the Name Brand amps, then one day they started to bolt steal plates to the bottom of those cheap amps. Yeah, they felt hefty, but the sound they produced was just as bad as before.

Bottom line is the that the bottle neck for vibration issues lay in the standard 40-pin IDE NEC HDDVD HR1100A drive. Weight is a by product of working with computer parts."

My response to the whole thing is simple:


I won't accept statements like these until they are verified by an objective, credible, PROFESSIONAL resource.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by nyg

I know these comments weren't made to me specifically but I'd like to address them FWIW:



I don't think Sony or Blu-ray has lost at all. Their launch titles however do give me pause. Why boast about capacity and being "beyond high definition" and then release discs that are clearly inferior to HD DVD. It would have better to wait till fall if more time is what's needed to get it right... ie, dual layer discs, MPEG4/VC1.



I'm not turning my back at all. However I am waiting till things improve quality wise before getting into the format. I was all set to support Blu-ray from day one but then the bad reviews started rolling in. I personally saw just how bad Hitch looked. Despite the negative comments and demos I still took home a Samsung and a couple of movies. One of them, Underworld: Evolution, is one of the better reviewed discs of the lot. Well I saw it at home on my HT and it looked like crap. Honestly, IMO it looked worse than DVD quality. It was an easy decision to return the player. I've since read that there may be an HDMI issue with the Sammy and that the component outputs provide a better presentation. Unfortunately I never tried the components so I can neither confirm nor deny this. I can however say that I'd be shocked if it made such a bad looking disc look good.

I plan on diving in again this fall. I think you're missing that the vast majority of negativity regarding Blu-ray surrounds the discs, not the player.

I had been a diehard Blu-ray supporter for over three years. Recently I decided to support both formats. This doesn't mean I've lost any faith in Blu-ray's ultimate victory. I simply bought into HD DVD because it's here now and it looks great. I wasn't born with a lot of patience. I've waited over three years already. I hope you can understand that on some level.

You make some great points. Blu-ray is far from dead and I too believe the best is yet to come.

Actually I am waiting for a Sony or Philips player, or the PS3. And the first Movie I buy will be Silent Hill. So hopefully they will correct any problems before then.

[JTK]

We keep seeing these rumors pop up.

First rumor was the thread you see here about Samsung and Toshiba, and now I'm seeing simillar rumors about Sony and NEC and the rest of it.

It's just amazing how, in the last week or so, ALL OF A SUDDEN, you start seeing a lot of the SAME KINDS of rumors: Unification/olive branch/maybe this format war wasn't such a good idea (duh!), etc.

Keep an eye out!

[Psiweaver]

yeah i think tosh realized what they were up against.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

yeah i think tosh realized what they were up against.

Toshiba is a smart and conservative company. Sony is smart but brash and arrogant. I think it makes sense for Toshiba to see if there's a way to compromise and find a mutually beneficial solution.

[goBR]

It's called Blu-ray!

Blu-ray has the highest capacity, it can play MPEG2, VC1, AVC/H.264.

What more do you need from a unified format?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by goBR

It's called Blu-ray!

Blu-ray has the highest capacity, it can play MPEG2, VC1, AVC/H.264.

What more do you need from a unified format?

Low cost

[goBR]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Low cost

Low cost is a matter of demand and supply.

With volume productions, it will be cheaper overtime.

Remember, it is the studios that are charging these outrageous prices and the consumers are the willing buyers.
Look at DVDs, how much do they cost to make??? $1 (including packaging). How much do they currently go for? $20? $25?

[hmurchison]

I'm looking forward to when a company like Discmakers begins to offer HD DVD or Blu-Ray pressing.

That will give us a more clear picture as to what each format costs. Currently there is so much subsidation going on it's hard to ascertain what each format "truly" costs.

[Psiweaver]

well hd dvd doesn't cost that much to make since its simply dvd discs with more pits. blu-ray at the moment is expensive because there are very few production facilities.

[goBR]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

well hd dvd doesn't cost that much to make since its simply dvd discs with more pits. blu-ray at the moment is expensive because there are very few production facilities.

So why are the studios charging them far more than standard DVDs?

Simple answer: GREED and more GREED and *sigh* consumers are willing to pay..what can I say.