Harold and Maude (1971) - OUT OF PRINT

[Nocturnaloner]

One of the greatest movies ever made, on blu-ray from Criterion. Yes, please. It's a good day!

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

You could always wait for a sale, since B&N usually does a 50% off one in July.

Presuming B&N is still around then...

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I think one person was heated from the moment they got here I wish this forum had an ignore function, like some others do...

Also, there are many different things that can be read into the film, what I suggested is just one of them. I think that's why it's a great work of art, it has so much depth and complexity.

It is worth noting that there is an ignore function, it just isn't as convenient as other forums. You have to go into your control panel and it is one of the choices down your left column and add the name of the person you want to ignore.

Ignore is the best thing ever. I just added another person today from this very thread. Totally worth the trouble.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Presuming B&N is still around then...

Why does everyone keep saying that?

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

The comments regarding Ruth Gordon's character are rather insulting,

That's what I said. I was responding to someone's interpretation--it certainly wasn't my interpretation!

and I feel that you have indeed missed the point of the film.

[Show spoiler] It is about living life to the fullest, and overcoming hardships. How do you think Holocaust survivors acted? Were they constantly depressed the rest of their lives? Did they not go on and aspire to better things? Thanks for making an upbeat, black comedy depressing.

I guarantee that you show this film to a hundred people and most of them wil find it depressing. It's not just me. The point of the film is self-evident. It's not particularly convoluted and it has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Beyond that...

[Show spoiler]I won't go into detail on how survivors "acted", what they "accomplished in their lives" (do you really think you should be questioning that?), but I assure you it was not remotely like Gordon's character. Some of them did struggle with depression constantly. Does that really surprise you after what they went through? Gordon's character dies and the kid is even more fooked than he was in the first place. That's depressing.

The film is not realistic or funny. Attempting or staging suicide is a much more intense, serious issue than depicted. Depressed boys do not bond with old ladies, who in turn do not drive like maniacs, behave like juveniles and express joie de vivre in such a crude manner. I know how some revere this film, but you need to respect that some might think it's a depressing train wreck.

[Nocturnaloner]

I realize that this is a discussion board, and that opinions will vary. There are times when you can see that someone's determination to misinterpret even the most basic points of a film is so entrenched, so dug in, that there's no discussion to be had. Accordingly, I've followed the advice of others on this thread.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by rock, stone

It is worth noting that there is an ignore function, it just isn't as convenient as other forums. You have to go into your control panel and it is one of the choices down your left column and add the name of the person you want to ignore.

Ignore is the best thing ever. I just added another person today from this very thread. Totally worth the trouble.

Found it, thanks so much!!!

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

Why does everyone keep saying that?

B&N announced this past week that they're seeking a buyer for Nook, their E Reader and their only profitable division. Dividing the business is a clear prelude to then closing down the brick and mortar business, which is disastrously unprofitable.

Sadly there is just no future in physical media, except for small niche stores and a tiny handful of independently run bookstores catering to their longtime clientele. In Los Angeles Hennessy & Ingalls, which specializes in design and architecture books is an example of the first, while Vroman's in Pasadena is an example of the second.

All our other small bookstores got put out of business by the already departed Borders and the soon to depart B&N. B&N has already closed some of their stores in my area like Westside Pavilion, they'll be entirely gone as a chain by the end of the year, mark my words.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

B&N announced this past week that they're seeking a buyer for Nook, their E Reader and their only profitable division. Dividing the business is a clear prelude to then closing down the brick and mortar business, which is disastrously unprofitable.

Sadly there is just no future in physical media, except for small niche stores and a tiny handful of independently run bookstores catering to their longtime clientele. In Los Angeles Hennessy & Ingalls, which specializes in design and architecture books is an example of the first, while Vroman's in Pasadena is an example of the second.

All our other small bookstores got put out of business by the already departed Borders and the soon to depart B&N. B&N has already closed some of their stores in my area like Westside Pavilion, they'll be entirely gone as a chain by the end of the year, mark my words.

And I thought getting support for my Nook Color was hard enough now, being a Canadian. I would think that they might be doing better now that they essentially have a monopoly. Chapters-Indigo doesn't seem to be doing too bad up here, although they're more of an overpriced knick-knack store than a book/film/music store now.

[DoubleDownAgain]

Saw it for the first time early last year. I really enjoyed it, but not enough to pay CC prices for it. Even though I don't have many CCs in my collection I do think they do, for the most part, a great job with the films they release. Much better than the average studio release, especially catalog titles. I think much of the anti-CC sentiment is due to some of the overzealous CC fanboys that have plagued movie forums for years. There are many CC titles I'd love to pick up, but living in Canada it's a pain in the arse to get them from B&N.

And....

[Show spoiler]I think being a holocaust survivor is a small, but important, part of Maude, but I didn't read as much into it as some obviously did.

[James Luckard]

To get things back to the film, I learned about this film in a college screenwriting class, where the prof used it as an example of top tier writing. He said the script was the writer's graduate thesis script from UCLA, which was both cool and quite intimidating. On that note, my graduate thesis script is available for production if anyone has a spare $30 million or so

Seriously though, it's such a great film, with some of the most unforgettable imagery, like

[Show spoiler]Harold & Maude walking in the field of daisies which becomes a field of military tombstones.





And her monologue there, expressing her whole philosophy, is both gorgeously all-encompassing, and yet terribly specific about what she went through as a young woman in Europe.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I would think that they might be doing better now that they essentially have a monopoly. Chapters-Indigo doesn't seem to be doing too bad up here, although they're more of an overpriced knick-knack store than a book/film/music store now.

Unfortunately B&N has a monopoly on a market that is shrinking to non-existence. B&N here is doing the same thing. Their sales floor, which used to be all books, is now 1/4 Nook, 1/4 children's toys and at most 1/2 books. Truly sad. It's not long for this world.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by DoubleDownAgain

Saw it for the first time early last year. I really enjoyed it, but not enough to pay CC prices for it. Even though I don't have many CCs in my collection I do think they do, for the most part, a great job with the films they release. Much better than the average studio release, especially catalog titles. I think much of the anti-CC sentiment is due to some of the overzealous CC fanboys that have plagued movie forums for years. There are many CC titles I'd love to pick up, but living in Canada it's a pain in the arse to get them from B&N.

And....

[Show spoiler]I think being a holocaust survivor is a small, but important, part of Maude, but I didn't read as much into it as some obviously did.

It's a good kind of pain getting them from B&N though.

[Show spoiler] I agree with you, Maude is a Holocaust survivor, but she still made something out of her life, and didn't let it affect her in a negative way. It's not like she totally forgot or blocked it out, but it was probably there in the back of her mind, every moment of the day, which is why I think she was trying to live her life to the fullest. i'm an optimist, and I think Harold did learn a lot from Maude, and isn't even "more screwed up than before," the "theme song" by Cat Stevens sums up the message of the film perfectly:

Well, if you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million things to be
You know that there are

And if you want to live high, live high
And if you want to live low, live low
'Cause there's a million ways to go
You know that there are

[Chorus:]
You can do what you want
The opportunity's on
And if you can find a new way
You can do it today
You can make it all true
And you can make it undo
you see ah ah ah
its easy ah ah ah
You only need to know

Well if you want to say yes, say yes
And if you want to say no, say no
'Cause there's a million ways to go
You know that there are

And if you want to be me, be me
And if you want to be you, be you
'Cause there's a million things to do
You know that there are

[Chorus]

Well, if you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million things to be
You know that there are
You know that there are
You know that there are
You know that there are
You know that there are

Harold and Maude isn't a perfect film, but it's still one I enjoy highly.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by DoubleDownAgain

And....

[Show spoiler]I think being a holocaust survivor is a small, but important, part of Maude, but I didn't read as much into it as some obviously did.

It's obviously something I choose to read into it, not everyone is going to see that, it could just as easily be read as

[Show spoiler]a coded gay relationship, at a time when that couldn't be represented easily onscreen, since the writer was later openly gay before his death from AIDS.

What I love about this film is precisely the fact that it avoids specificity and allows multiple readings. The same certainly can't be said for the latest Adam Sandler flick.

[BohemianGraham]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308358/ - I am amused and bewildered by this. Why didn't Criterion include this as a bonus feature?

[DoubleDownAgain]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

It's obviously something I choose to read into it, not everyone is going to see that, it could just as easily be read as

[Show spoiler]a coded gay relationship, at a time when that couldn't be represented easily onscreen, since the writer was later openly gay before his death from AIDS.

What I love about this film is precisely the fact that it avoids specificity and allows multiple readings. The same certainly can't be said for the latest Adam Sandler flick.

Maybe Adam Sandler could remake it, he could play both roles.

[Show spoiler]As I think anyone who saw it would on some level but it's a stretch to call it a Holocaust movie. Either way it's a great movie and highly recommended.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by DoubleDownAgain

Maybe Adam Sandler could remake it, he could play both roles.

[Show spoiler]As I think anyone who saw it would on some level but it's a stretch to call it a Holocaust movie. Either way it's a great movie and highly recommended.

Yep

[Show spoiler]that was my point--it is not a Holocaust movie. You then jumped on me, even though it turns out you totally agree with me on the point. It's not a gay movie either. Some people will go to any length to make connections that aren't there on screen.

I doubt even the most diehard fan of this film will pull it off the shelf more than once every couple years.

[DoubleDownAgain]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Yep

[Show spoiler]that was my point--it is not a Holocaust movie. You then jumped on me, even though it turns out you totally agree with me on the point. It's not a gay movie either. Some people will go to any length to make connections that aren't there on screen.

I doubt even the most diehard fan of this film will pull it off the shelf more than once every couple years.

[Show spoiler]I jumped on you?
It also probably depends on the person, I could see how some might be quicker to revisit it than once every couple of years.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

[Show spoiler] I agree with you, Maude is a Holocaust survivor, but she still made something out of her life, and didn't let it affect her in a negative way. It's not like she totally forgot or blocked it out, but it was probably there in the back of her mind, every moment of the day, which is why I think she was trying to live her life to the fullest.

Glad to see I have at least one supporter Personally I feel that

[Show spoiler]almost everything she says is refracted through her experiences during the Holocaust.

Her whole monologue in the field of daisies, when she points to a single daisy, and compares it to the whole identical field, saying:

"I feel that much of the world's sorrow comes from people who are this...
yet, allow themselves to be treated as that."

Can be read both as a general philosophy, and also as a specific reaction to her own experiences during WWII.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by DoubleDownAgain

[Show spoiler]As I think anyone who saw it would on some level but it's a stretch to call it a Holocaust movie. Either way it's a great movie and highly recommended.

Glad we both agree on how great the film is. I know this will sound crazy, but I agree it's not a

[Show spoiler]"holocaust movie", but alternately I think it is in some ways "about" the Holocaust, if that makes sense. I took a class in college called "Literary Responses to the Holocaust", and I think this film could easily have been shown as part of it. It's not a dramatization of events during the Holocaust, but to me many of Maude's actions are certainly a response to those events.

Anyway, as I say, that's just my own personal reading of the film. There's certainly no "right" or "wrong" reading of any work of art, and I don't mean to suggest my opinions are definitive