The Long Goodbye (Robert Altman)

[Akijama]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

well MGM barely has a pulse right now in the US--outside of Bond--so I certainly wouldn't see them releasing this title.
:

That's far from the true,Ark

Fox has been handling their catalogue very well so far.MGM '12 catalogue output:

Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure
Red Dawn
WarGames
Van Damme (Cyborg,Double Impact,Death Warrant)
Death Wish 2-4
Norris (Code of Silence,Lone Wolf McQuade,The Delta Force,Missing in Action 1&2)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2
Killer Klowns
Jeepers Creepers
Throw Momma from the Train
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
The Apartment
Hitchcock (Notorious,Rebecca,Spellbound)
Allen (Manhattan,Annie Hall)
and,of course....Bond.

They are doing just fine (although,they should get around to put more oldies-goldies to Blu-ray).

That said,methinks that MGM has zero interest in putting this particularly title to Blu-ray;regardless of being a cult classic directed by one of the most acclaimed directors.Let's see if Criterion and now - Shout Factory (looking further down the road - even Twilight Time),can do something about it.

Btw,tenia thank you for submitting infos about disc specifications.

[Arkadin]

well that's what I mean--they barely have a pulse NOW.
they DID have more of a pulse earlier in the year imo.
I don't know--I just wish they would release a lot more older films from the 50's and 60's, a lot more westerns for sure.
I just hate seeing a company in Germany releasing lots of the MGM films I want MGM to release in the US.
it's just disconcerting, although at least some are being released.

[Trekkie313]

This on Netflix streaming in HD as we speak.

[mrjosh1138]

Originally Posted by tenia

French subs are forced.

AQ is quite good, but some dialog have a harsh shuffle on it, creating an uncomfortable hearing, in about 5 or 6 scenes. It is easy to find, but is not that distubring.

PQ however is kind of a mixed bag. Most of the day scenes are wonderful. Nice colors, definition, contrast, blacks are deep, it's clearly HD.
But night scenes, my god...
You have awful grain uprise, and blacks are completely wahsed out. The 2 combined create an awful look. Moreover, these scenes usually have an disappointing definition.

Also, be aware that the copy has most likely not been cleaned, since there are plenty of white speckles throughout.

It's kind of a nice upgrade (I read the DVD aws god-awful), but I do believe there was potential for so much more than this, so I felt disappointed at the end.

PQ : 7/10
AQ : 7.5/10

I'm trying to find out if this blu ray has multi-channel audio... 5.1? The DVD has original mono track. Very curious!!!

[retablo]

Originally Posted by tenia

French subs are forced.

AQ is quite good, but some dialog have a harsh shuffle on it, creating an uncomfortable hearing, in about 5 or 6 scenes. It is easy to find, but is not that distubring.

PQ however is kind of a mixed bag. Most of the day scenes are wonderful. Nice colors, definition, contrast, blacks are deep, it's clearly HD.
But night scenes, my god...
You have awful grain uprise, and blacks are completely wahsed out. The 2 combined create an awful look. Moreover, these scenes usually have an disappointing definition.

Also, be aware that the copy has most likely not been cleaned, since there are plenty of white speckles throughout.

It's kind of a nice upgrade (I read the DVD aws god-awful), but I do believe there was potential for so much more than this, so I felt disappointed at the end.

PQ : 7/10
AQ : 7.5/10

Sigh. This is how the film was intended to look. As I posted above, Zsigmond "tried to approximate human vision through the post-production technique of exposing the undeveloped negative to additional pure light, which literally dampens blacks and softens intense colors until they become pastel hues."

The film has NEVER had deep blacks and grainy nighttime scenes, so the look of the blu-ray is 100% correct. PQ score should reflect that, especially if it's faithful to the source material.

[Howie Munson]

Got my copy today and I can confirm tenias impressions. BUT you can turn the subs off by choosing French audio first and then switch to English audio during the feature.
The night scenes do look awful but the scenes during the day look decent. For me it's worth an upgrade over SD but I really love that movie.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by retablo

Sigh. This is how the film was intended to look. As I posted above, Zsigmond "tried to approximate human vision through the post-production technique of exposing the undeveloped negative to additional pure light, which literally dampens blacks and softens intense colors until they become pastel hues."

The film has NEVER had deep blacks and grainy nighttime scenes, so the look of the blu-ray is 100% correct. PQ score should reflect that, especially if it's faithful to the source material.

Then I have an other issue since some night scenes DO have deep blacks and a not-so-high level of grain.

My PQ score reflects this. Whatever the intentions are for the photo (and indeed, I have read about Zsigmond's intentions), there is a problem since about half of the night scenes have deep blacks and regular level of grain, and about half of them have very grey blacks and very high level of grain.

I would expect the photo to be consistant on the whole movie, and it was not the case.

Originally Posted by Howie Munson

Got my copy today and I can confirm tenias impressions. BUT you can turn the subs off by choosing French audio first and then switch to English audio during the feature.

Argh, should have tried this way. Sorry for the misleading info, but thanks to correct that !

[Akijama]

French site Ecranlarge.com gave the film 4/5 stars for PQ and 3.5/5 for AQ.

Check the caps:

http://www.ecranlarge.com/movie_imag...-15011-dvd.php

[pro-bassoonist]

Ecran do not post 1080p captures.

Obviously, the ones in the review are not full resolution.

Pro-B

[Akijama]

Fixed.Cheers

[pro-bassoonist]

[retablo]

Originally Posted by tenia

Then I have an other issue since some night scenes DO have deep blacks and a not-so-high level of grain.

My PQ score reflects this. Whatever the intentions are for the photo (and indeed, I have read about Zsigmond's intentions), there is a problem since about half of the night scenes have deep blacks and regular level of grain, and about half of them have very grey blacks and very high level of grain.

I would expect the photo to be consistant on the whole movie, and it was not the case.

NOTHING is consistent in film. Thousands of factors contribute to shots of varying quality, especially in the age before Digital Intermediates. The PQ is reflective of the way the film was shot, therefore it is very good in representing the look of the film as intended. No amount of tinkering is going to even out the photographic inconsistencies inherent in the original negative, nor should it be.

[pro-bassoonist]

Retablo,

Do you actually have this disc? If not, why are trying to rebut the opinion of someone who does?

Pro-B

[tenia]

Originally Posted by retablo

NOTHING is consistent in film. Thousands of factors contribute to shots of varying quality, especially in the age before Digital Intermediates. The PQ is reflective of the way the film was shot, therefore it is very good in representing the look of the film as intended. No amount of tinkering is going to even out the photographic inconsistencies inherent in the original negative, nor should it be.

I do believe that today, not only PQ can be highly non-representative of the way the film was shot (just ask Universal, they know well how to tweak their catalog movies), but also plenty of things can happen between the actual film elements (OCN, etc) and the Blu Ray.

I have never seen the movie at the time (I wasn't even born) nor in theaters during a re-release.

However, I find it hard to believe that the only argument you use for rebuting my opinion of the disc is so two-sided as to say "Zsigmond's intentions was to have washed out night scenes, thus, it is normal that night scenes look grey and all" and at the same time "if some night scenes don't look like this, it is perfectly normal 'cause the movie was supposed to".

I don't want to argue with you, I sincerely have no idea how the movie looked originally. I just find it hard to believe that it can look so different and still be representative of Zsigmond's intentions. I'm not saying the disc is bad, it is not the case. But again, I do believe that there should not be such inconsistencies, and the overall look of the movie as rendered here does not allow the disc to have a higher PQ grade for me. Moreover, bear in mind that the copy is highly dirty, with plenty of white speckles, which I find quite surprising, and probably the proof that the transfer has not really been cleaned.

Here is, just for the sake of the exercise, some 1920x1080 caps made from Potemkine disc by myself.

I use Total Media Theater 5.0.1.114. Caps seems to be quite close in quality than the ones you can find on caps-a-holic, but I find them a bit more compressed (though I haven't found any option on TMT for this).

You can see that level of grain is extremely high (and I missed a scene with a pan on the tower where the flat of Marlowe is), and that several low-lit scenes clearly don't have this very washed out look (the scene at the beach, especially). I also took several caps of the party at 1h24, which is visually dreadful (the picture wobbles, grain is completely crazy, definition is low, contrast poor, etc etc).

[pro-bassoonist]

Tenia,

If these captures are representative of what is on the disc, what you are seeing is not high levels of grain; there is plenty of noise and artifacts.

Actually, I am seeing very, very little grain.

This is not how the film was shot:
http://uppix.net/5/0/1/9182e2a941834...b26d2c1a9.html

The color grading is also problematic.

Pro-B

[PowellPressburger]

Pro-B ... Will you be reviewing the disc? I really want it badly but something tells me this isn't the release fans wanted.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Tenia,

If these captures are representative of what is on the disc, what you are seeing is not high levels of grain; there is plenty of noise and artifacts.

Actually, I am seeing very, very little grain.

I know than I'm clearly not experienced enough to differentiate high grain level (like on Dr Mabuse, for instance) and what you point as noise (artifacts, I should normally know better, especially on caps).

About the representativity, I've done some caps for the Indiana Jones boxset. I think my caps are quite close to what can be seen on caps-a-holic, but slighty more compressed.

Here an exemple :



VS

This

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

Pro-B ... Will you be reviewing the disc? I really want it badly but something tells me this isn't the release fans wanted.

I could not get a screener. But now that Tenia has confirmed that his captures are representative of what is on the disc, I would say that you want to stay away from this disc.

Maybe I will order it on my own later on and put a review up, but there are 6-7 French releases that just showed up and they need to be covered first.

Pro-B

[Torrente]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

This is not how the film was shot:
http://uppix.net/5/0/1/9182e2a941834...b26d2c1a9.html

Could you explain?

I don't understand what you're implying by this.
(it's not a tricky/sneaky question I assure you)



I should probably say first that:
- I have this Blu Ray
- I know this movie by heart
- I saw it in theaters for a re-release and another time in an independant screening at a festival
- I saw the HD TV airing on french broadcast 2 months ago
- I have the DVD

And I still enjoyed the Blu Ray a lot. I also think it's one of the most important european exclusive out there because it's one of the very best movie made in the US at that time.

[pro-bassoonist]

Torrente,

The most basic evidence here are the overwhelming artifacts/noise.

Do you see how the tiny green/red lines that cover the image almost look like a thick spider web? This cannot be on the negative. Anyhow, I don't feel comfortable talking about a release I don't have, but the high-definition transfer here comes from a dated source.

Things are exacerbated here, but take a look at this as well (this is a random example not from the film):



Pro-B