Well done Microsoft, Well Done

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Stitches

Just like my ps3 auto-updates every night at 2am, you wouldn't need to be at your Xbox One for it to do a once a day check in.

i guess my biggest problem w/that whole thing was "what was the point in the 1st place?"

it's all a moot point now but i'm still curious.

MS sends out a "ping" over the internet and waits for a reply from all of the xbox's that are hooked up and then what??

i know that may be a very crude description....but in my mind it works.

[duggie walker]

I'll be buying both consoles anyway.

But I wouldn't doubt that MS will get its way eventually, just not as soon as they'd have liked to. What they've realised is simply get the boxes into people's houses first, restrict their liberties later.

They'll make the changes optional to begin with but load up the incentives. Then they'll start staggering releases so you can get a download a month earlier than a physical disc. Then at some point over the next couple of years, they'll make one of their A-list exclusives download only.

You never beat the house, folks.

And I'm not being biased. Sony will probably follow suit.

[ozzsoad]

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

We have been officially robbed of a digital future! Consumers stood against Microsoft, and Microsoft buckled instead of believing in their own vision. Music has gone digital, movies have gone digital, and games have and will eventually only be digital.

Now with this complete reversal we get no more family sharing, no more playing games without the discs spinning, no more pulling up your entire library from any Xbox One console. All & only because people are so resistant to change and don't like having to connect to Internet daily (in the year 2013).

Ten years from now, EVERYTHING will be consumed digitally, the worlds been headed in that direction for years now, but no, now we get to enjoy a new generation of last generation consoles. Beefed up specs and improved visuals. We could've had so much more, but now we get more of the same. The secondary market of selling/trading will always be a financial disservice to the game developers/ publishers, and now instead of enjoying the eventual price difference of digital games versus their physical counterparts. We get to enjoy getting up from our couch and swapping discs likes it's the year 1995.

Thanks.

Don Mattrick, is that you?

You act as if you couldn't just download a game. Doesn't that kind of solve some of your problems? Me, I like having the physical disc, which I'm allowed to do as I wish, whether it be give it to someone else or still play even generations after a console is over. That gives me a feeling of ownership as opposed to renting digital rights. Funny me I guess.

I'm sorry you still have to get off the couch though, that's a real shame. Damn you Microsoft for making us lift our comfy asses off the couch every time we want to switch games. Curse you!

[Stitches]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

i guess my biggest problem w/that whole thing was "what was the point in the 1st place?"

it's all a moot point now but i'm still curious.

MS sends out a "ping" over the internet and waits for a reply from all of the xbox's that are hooked up and then what??

i know that may be a very crude description....but in my mind it works.

To upload saves to the cloud, sync gamerscore data, re-authenticate licences (and any changes to them), download any patches and updates, etc.

[ReverendSlim]

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

We have been officially robbed of a digital future! Consumers stood against Microsoft, and Microsoft buckled instead of believing in their own vision. Music has gone digital, movies have gone digital, and games have and will eventually only be digital.

Now with this complete reversal we get no more family sharing, no more playing games without the discs spinning, no more pulling up your entire library from any Xbox One console. All & only because people are so resistant to change and don't like having to connect to Internet daily (in the year 2013).

Ten years from now, EVERYTHING will be consumed digitally, the worlds been headed in that direction for years now, but no, now we get to enjoy a new generation of last generation consoles. Beefed up specs and improved visuals. We could've had so much more, but now we get more of the same. The secondary market of selling/trading will always be a financial disservice to the game developers/ publishers, and now instead of enjoying the eventual price difference of digital games versus their physical counterparts. We get to enjoy getting up from our couch and swapping discs likes it's the year 1995.

Thanks.

I'm with you on a lot of that, but I think if Microsoft had allowed disc-based verification for offline play from the start along with their digital initiatives, they might have pulled it off. Ultimately, their biggest mistake was that they never should have revealed the console without getting their PR people on the same page. They totally borked the message as far as what they were trying to do.

Still, some of these advantages will survive. You'll still be able to download games digitally on their launch dates. You'll still be able to instant switch between them so long as you've bought them digitally. You'll still be able to do asychronous matchmaking between games (though this will now be delayed if anyone assigned to that game lobby has a physical copy and has to change discs). And if you buy all-digital instead of discs, they may still do the cloud-based license thing for when you roam to a friend's console.

I do like that they've at least kept the plan to be able to take a friend's disc, install it to your system, then buy the digital license from that installation so you don't have to download the game. That means the titles I'm getting at launch, I can install, buy the digital licenses, then sell to friends who would rather have the discs and still break even... and then go all-digital from that point forward. Maybe the generation after this, our infrastructure will have expanded to make this inevitable change more palatable.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by wormraper

a great win for Physical ownership this day. I'll fight against a digital future for as long as I can.

Here, here! I'm all about physical ownership where possible and applicable!

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

We have been officially robbed of a digital future! Consumers stood against Microsoft, and Microsoft buckled instead of believing in their own vision. Music has gone digital, movies have gone digital, and games have and will eventually only be digital.

Now with this complete reversal we get no more family sharing, no more playing games without the discs spinning, no more pulling up your entire library from any Xbox One console. All & only because people are so resistant to change and don't like having to connect to Internet daily (in the year 2013).

Ten years from now, EVERYTHING will be consumed digitally, the worlds been headed in that direction for years now, but no, now we get to enjoy a new generation of last generation consoles. Beefed up specs and improved visuals. We could've had so much more, but now we get more of the same. The secondary market of selling/trading will always be a financial disservice to the game developers/ publishers, and now instead of enjoying the eventual price difference of digital games versus their physical counterparts. We get to enjoy getting up from our couch and swapping discs likes it's the year 1995.

Thanks.

You haven't been robbed of anything. The games will still be available for digital download if you want to buy them that way instead of on a disc.

And if you buy them digitally, then you can mostly likely still pull them up from any Xbox One console. It will probably work like digitally download games on 360 work now. On the main system that they are purchased on, you can use them completely offline. And on any other system, you have to be online and connected to Xbox Live through your account to play the full versions of the games, and then they revert to a trial/demo mode. I don't think the Xbox One will work in a significantly different manner than this.

And the reality of that matter of pulling up your games from "any" Xbox One without needing discs is that you will have to download everything. Granted supposedly they will now have a feature where you can start playing the game before it is fully downloaded, but I'll wait to see that in action (on both the PS4 and Xbox One) before I start counting on it being efficient. If that feature doesn't work well, then depending on the internet speed available, you could be waiting a few hours to download a single game. I don't think this feature would have been nearly as convenient as it sounded.

I guess the loss of the family sharing plan kind of sucks depending on your perspective, but I don't think it would have been as great as it was being toted to be anyway.


There's also no reason why they can't utilize "the power of the cloud" where it makes sense to. I can see if there's some kind of big online multiplayer/MMO game, having the cloud utilized for it. Though I wonder to what extent it actually would be since I have a huge since publishers already complain about production and marketing costs of big "AAA" games that even when they sell millions of copies brand new, it's not enough to break even let alone profit (blaming the used game industry no less). It would be interesting to see them pump so much into a game like that (even if it was online only and used copies couldn't be purchases), and see what excuse they have when they still don't make enough money off of it.


But here's the big problem with what MS was proposing, particularly the online check-in.... it would give all games a "shelf life." It would mean that entire gaming collections would expire all in one fell swoop when MS eventually retires and stops supporting the Xbox One and the online check in could no longer be done.

Now maybe you are one who doesn't go back and play older video games. That's fine, that's your choice (though if you are, then this should be VERY concerning to you). But many people do, myself included. I have many game systems going back to the early 80s. I have no desire to have my games set as limited rentals.

In many ways I look at games in a similar manner as I do movies. They should be preserved and made available (even if it is in a Disney vault like manner, there should at least be regular availability). The problem is that no where near as many older games get re-released on a new platform/format as movies do (and even movies have some that don't make it over). Now not that I want to be buying all of the same games over and over and over again every 5-8 years when new systems come out, but the point is that old games getting reissued is a relative rarity. And I don't see going back and playing an older game to be any different than going back and watching an older movie as many people do.

Digitally distributed content is much more volitile than content on a physical disc. Look at the downloads for Xbox 360 and PS3 now. If your system/hard drive crashes, you can redownload the content now, but what happens when the systems are one day no longer supported? You won't be able to reacquire that content. And it will ALL be lost in one shot, not like scratching a disc in which just that one game is lost. Since it's tied to your account, you can't just copy it from someone else's hard drive who might have it. So physical media is better as it is easier to obtain a replacement. Since the PS3 allows digital content on more than 1 system, I'm already putting everything on both of my PS3s (and I plan to get a 3rd eventually for the older content that I have that can be put on up to 5 systems). And I will be getting external hard drives to do a full back up of everything from each PS3 to restore if the internal hard drives ever crash.

But with what Microsoft's plan was, with the 24 check in, you wouldn't even have to wait for a system/hard drive crash to happen. You just lose your games the second they retire the system and you can no longer check in! Hooray!

And that's what bugs me.... having this effect ALL GAMES! Obviously no matter what, any kind of online multiplayer game (whether the entire game is nothing but online multiplayer, or if that is simple one mode in addition to other offline modes) are going to go away once the system is retired, and not much can be done about that. I accept that even if I don't like it either. But there's no reason why games that are either completely single player, or have single player and local multiplayer modes should be cut off because of this.

You can't tell me that the next iteration of Mortal Kombat, a game that will have 20-30ish characters and a few backgrounds to pick from, will need "the power of the cloud" to function, and constitutes a game that shouldn't be able to be played offline. Sure, playing online against others is a major appeal. But there's no reason why the single player modes should be cut off years down the road, nor should the ability to play against the person sitting next to you on your couch. Not all games should be restricted because of something that will only benefit certain select games.


As for the "getting up to change a disc" argument, as I said earlier downloading is an option still. But if you want to be able to trade in/sell off your game, then yeah, you'll have to go the physical route.

But really, we are gaining more than we are losing. The problem that I have with the "I have to get up and swap out a disc! How 1995!" argument is how UTTERLY short sighted it is. Because you don't want to swap out a disc... because you want immediate, short term convenience, you are willing to COMPLETELY give up ALL of the freedom that comes with physical media in exchange for a glorified extended rental.

I guarantee that many people who think like you regarding this, saying "this is the future," and "what's the big deal? My 360 is always connected online now," would have been crying foul when later on down the road the system is retired and you can't play your games anymore, all because you didn't think ahead and found the act of getting up and swapping out a disc to be OH SO inconvenient! Gosh, how aweful for you! The next thing you know you'll have to hold your own d**k while you piss... then how will you manage to function?

Right now, because of the need for DRM when it comes to digital distribution (because if no restrictions existed at all what so ever, people would be copying games left and right), and because of the limited time access to the content, physical media is still where it's at. If there's some long out of print game that I never played and want to now, I can buy a used copy. And such copies exist because of people who are done with them selling them off. This deal where the Xbox One was going to allow digitally distributed games to be resold was going to be very limited, and once the license to sell the game AT ALL (new or "used") goes away, there would be no way for anyone to obtain it.

Anyone who thinks the previous direction of the Xbox One was a good idea is short sighted and fickle. You care too much about minor eliminating minor short term inconveniences without thinking about the long term ramifications.


The ONLY way I could accept all digital is if certain conditions were met, which I know never actually will be:

*Any and all games that come out have to be made constantly available going forward. They should never be taken down from being able to be purchased (of course this would be particularly tough for games based on other properties that the publisher got a license to make)

*Any and all previously purchased games should be able to be redownloaded as needed when/if a console needs to be replaced, indefinably and forever, even after the company has moved on to the next console

*If something as ridiculously stupid as a "24-hour" check-in has to even exist (which IMO it doesn't), then I should be able to do that check in forever, for the rest of my life.

Right now with physical media, I'm not dependent upon the companies that made the hardware and games to maintain access to them. There are means of obtaining used/replacement parts, systems, games, and repair services out there to do so. But with digital distribution, I am dependent on those companies. If they want me to follow them into the digital future, then they better pony up with proper long term access options.

[Frasr]

Originally Posted by ozzsoad

Don Mattrick, is that you?

Yes

[Drew664]

Originally Posted by Frasr

Yes

LOL

[Stitches]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Here, here! I'm all about physical ownership where possible and applicable!




You haven't been robbed of anything. The games will still be available for digital download if you want to buy them that way instead of on a disc.

And if you buy them digitally, then you can mostly likely still pull them up from any Xbox One console. It will probably work like digitally download games on 360 work now. On the main system that they are purchased on, you can use them completely offline. And on any other system, you have to be online and connected to Xbox Live through your account to play the full versions of the games, and then they revert to a trial/demo mode. I don't think the Xbox One will work in a significantly different manner than this.

And the reality of that matter of pulling up your games from "any" Xbox One without needing discs is that you will have to download everything. Granted supposedly they will now have a feature where you can start playing the game before it is fully downloaded, but I'll wait to see that in action (on both the PS4 and Xbox One) before I start counting on it being efficient. If that feature doesn't work well, then depending on the internet speed available, you could be waiting a few hours to download a single game. I don't think this feature would have been nearly as convenient as it sounded.

I guess the loss of the family sharing plan kind of sucks depending on your perspective, but I don't think it would have been as great as it was being toted to be anyway.


There's also no reason why they can't utilize "the power of the cloud" where it makes sense to. I can see if there's some kind of big online multiplayer/MMO game, having the cloud utilized for it. Though I wonder to what extent it actually would be since I have a huge since publishers already complain about production and marketing costs of big "AAA" games that even when they sell millions of copies brand new, it's not enough to break even let alone profit (blaming the used game industry no less). It would be interesting to see them pump so much into a game like that (even if it was online only and used copies couldn't be purchases), and see what excuse they have when they still don't make enough money off of it.


But here's the big problem with what MS was proposing, particularly the online check-in.... it would give all games a "shelf life." It would mean that entire gaming collections would expire all in one fell swoop when MS eventually retires and stops supporting the Xbox One and the online check in could no longer be done.

Now maybe you are one who doesn't go back and play older video games. That's fine, that's your choice (though if you are, then this should be VERY concerning to you). But many people do, myself included. I have many game systems going back to the early 80s. I have no desire to have my games set as limited rentals.

In many ways I look at games in a similar manner as I do movies. They should be preserved and made available (even if it is in a Disney vault like manner, there should at least be regular availability). The problem is that no where near as many older games get re-released on a new platform/format as movies do (and even movies have some that don't make it over). Now not that I want to be buying all of the same games over and over and over again every 5-8 years when new systems come out, but the point is that old games getting reissued is a relative rarity. And I don't see going back and playing an older game to be any different than going back and watching an older movie as many people do.

Digitally distributed content is much more volitile than content on a physical disc. Look at the downloads for Xbox 360 and PS3 now. If your system/hard drive crashes, you can redownload the content now, but what happens when the systems are one day no longer supported? You won't be able to reacquire that content. And it will ALL be lost in one shot, not like scratching a disc in which just that one game is lost. Since it's tied to your account, you can't just copy it from someone else's hard drive who might have it. So physical media is better as it is easier to obtain a replacement. Since the PS3 allows digital content on more than 1 system, I'm already putting everything on both of my PS3s (and I plan to get a 3rd eventually for the older content that I have that can be put on up to 5 systems). And I will be getting external hard drives to do a full back up of everything from each PS3 to restore if the internal hard drives ever crash.

But with what Microsoft's plan was, with the 24 check in, you wouldn't even have to wait for a system/hard drive crash to happen. You just lose your games the second they retire the system and you can no longer check in! Hooray!

And that's what bugs me.... having this effect ALL GAMES! Obviously no matter what, any kind of online multiplayer game (whether the entire game is nothing but online multiplayer, or if that is simple one mode in addition to other offline modes) are going to go away once the system is retired, and not much can be done about that. I accept that even if I don't like it either. But there's no reason why games that are either completely single player, or have single player and local multiplayer modes should be cut off because of this.

You can't tell me that the next iteration of Mortal Kombat, a game that will have 20-30ish characters and a few backgrounds to pick from, will need "the power of the cloud" to function, and constitutes a game that shouldn't be able to be played offline. Sure, playing online against others is a major appeal. But there's no reason why the single player modes should be cut off years down the road, nor should the ability to play against the person sitting next to you on your couch. Not all games should be restricted because of something that will only benefit certain select games.


As for the "getting up to change a disc" argument, as I said earlier downloading is an option still. But if you want to be able to trade in/sell off your game, then yeah, you'll have to go the physical route.

But really, we are gaining more than we are losing. The problem that I have with the "I have to get up and swap out a disc! How 1995!" argument is how UTTERLY short sighted it is. Because you don't want to swap out a disc... because you want immediate, short term convenience, you are willing to COMPLETELY give up ALL of the freedom that comes with physical media in exchange for a glorified extended rental.

I guarantee that many people who think like you regarding this, saying "this is the future," and "what's the big deal? My 360 is always connected online now," would have been crying foul when later on down the road the system is retired and you can't play your games anymore, all because you didn't think ahead and found the act of getting up and swapping out a disc to be OH SO inconvenient! Gosh, how aweful for you! The next thing you know you'll have to hold your own d**k while you piss... then how will you manage to function?

Right now, because of the need for DRM when it comes to digital distribution (because if no restrictions existed at all what so ever, people would be copying games left and right), and because of the limited time access to the content, physical media is still where it's at. If there's some long out of print game that I never played and want to now, I can buy a used copy. And such copies exist because of people who are done with them selling them off. This deal where the Xbox One was going to allow digitally distributed games to be resold was going to be very limited, and once the license to sell the game AT ALL (new or "used") goes away, there would be no way for anyone to obtain it.

Anyone who thinks the previous direction of the Xbox One was a good idea is short sighted and fickle. You care too much about minor eliminating minor short term inconveniences without thinking about the long term ramifications.


The ONLY way I could accept all digital is if certain conditions were met, which I know never actually will be:

*Any and all games that come out have to be made constantly available going forward. They should never be taken down from being able to be purchased (of course this would be particularly tough for games based on other properties that the publisher got a license to make)

*Any and all previously purchased games should be able to be redownloaded as needed when/if a console needs to be replaced, indefinably and forever, even after the company has moved on to the next console

*If something as ridiculously stupid as a "24-hour" check-in has to even exist (which IMO it doesn't), then I should be able to do that check in forever, for the rest of my life.

Right now with physical media, I'm not dependent upon the companies that made the hardware and games to maintain access to them. There are means of obtaining used/replacement parts, systems, games, and repair services out there to do so. But with digital distribution, I am dependent on those companies. If they want me to follow them into the digital future, then they better pony up with proper long term access options.

As evidenced by what they did yesterday, I don't see why they couldn't have made these changes at the "end" of the Xbox One life cycle, thus preventing your games from having a shelf life.

[un4gvn94538]

Well done, not.

That's great they changed it for now but I think they got something up their sleeve for the future to stick it to us again. I also have a hard time for the blatant FU from them since they revealed the restrictions. Its only after the preorders started when they started pissing themselves. This, and with the mandatory spy cam I have no interest in which increases the price, I'm staying away from the xone. Sad too. I love my 360

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Stitches

As evidenced by what they did yesterday, I don't see why they couldn't have made these changes at the "end" of the Xbox One life cycle, thus preventing your games from having a shelf life.

But we didn't know that. They kept insisting that the whole system was "built around" their DRM and kept dodging questions of the nature of what happens at the end of the generation. And even if they could "flip a switch" to let people maintain access, they never said or did anything to make us believe that they would.

As such, they gave someone like me absolutely no incentive to choose their system over PS4 or even in addition to it. I'm sure as hell not going to spend a several grand between the console, peripherals, and games knowing that unless that CHOOSE to "flip the switch", I will DEFINITELY lose access to all of my content, especially when I know that for the most part it won't be an issue with the competition. Even if someone was desperate enough to get an Xbox One for the exclusives, assuming they could afford to do so, it would still would have made more sense to get both systems, and ONLY use the Xbox One for the exclusive content that said individual feels they absolutely MUST HAVE, and use the PS4 for everything else.

And as it turns out, the family sharing plan that they were toting about is really nothing more than a timed, full game demo similar to that which PS+ members get now through PS3, where they can download a full game and try it out on a time limited basis before choosing to buy it. All of that DRM that "had" to be in place for the family sharing plan to work.... for THAT?!

No thanks!

[Stitches]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But we didn't know that. They kept insisting that the whole system was "built around" their DRM and kept dodging questions of the nature of what happens at the end of the generation. And even if they could "flip a switch" to let people maintain access, they never said or did anything to make us believe that they would.

As such, they gave someone like me absolutely no incentive to choose their system over PS4 or even in addition to it. I'm sure as hell not going to spend a several grand between the console, peripherals, and games knowing that unless that CHOOSE to "flip the switch", I will DEFINITELY lose access to all of my content, especially when I know that for the most part it won't be an issue with the competition. Even if someone was desperate enough to get an Xbox One for the exclusives, assuming they could afford to do so, it would still would have made more sense to get both systems, and ONLY use the Xbox One for the exclusive content that said individual feels they absolutely MUST HAVE, and use the PS4 for everything else.

And as it turns out, the family sharing plan that they were toting about is really nothing more than a timed, full game demo similar to that which PS+ members get now through PS3, where they can download a full game and try it out on a time limited basis before choosing to buy it. All of that DRM that "had" to be in place for the family sharing plan to work.... for THAT?!

No thanks!

There's no proof to that. It's an anonymous post. While that may be accurate, we have no real way of knowing. It does however seemingly go against what Microsoft had already laid out about gamesharing (since having access to only a demo isn't really access to your whole library):

http://news.xbox.com/error.html?aspx...013/06/license

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

It's all moot now anyways though, so whatever. I'm glad it worked out for you, as it doesn't really change my plans anyways.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

We have been officially robbed of a digital future! Consumers stood against Microsoft, and Microsoft buckled instead of believing in their own vision.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Here:

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

Music has gone digital

Wrong. CD is right around 50% of the music market.

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

movies have gone digital

Wrong. (are you on the right website?)

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

and games have and will eventually only be digital.

Also Wrong.

These media are available as downloadables, this is true. But they aren't nor ever will be digital-only. The numbers just don't support it. Far too many ppl need physical media with resale value and portability, as that's the only type you really own.

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

Ten years from now, EVERYTHING will be consumed digitally,

Oh! Oh! Tell me all about how I'll be able download a nice chicken dinner, complete with veggies and rice! Remember, you said 'EVERYTHING'.

Dude, Blu-ray detractors said that hi-def discs were irrelevant because movies would all be downloads in 2008. When that didn't happen, and blu-ray got even bigger, they started saying we'd be digital only by 2012, and oh look: It still didn't happen. Looks like y'all're still moving the goalposts further back. Keep moving them; it's gonna be awhile. Digital hasn't even overtaken optical for music yet, and that's after 14 years. What makes you think movies and shows, which are far more data intensive, are gonna go all digital in much shorter timeframe? Here, I'll give you a more realistic timeframe: Never!

Originally Posted by duggie walker

You never beat the house, folks.

We just did.

Originally Posted by duggie walker

And I'm not being biased. Sony will probably follow suit.

No they won't. After the poopy-storm MS got from their initial plans? No way PlayStation does that. If the PS4 proves a big success, why would Sony want to add rotten DRM to the PS5?

[krazeyeyez]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

did they ever say what the purpose of "checking in" was??

Pretty obvious it was a stop guard for potential exploitation of the family plan/digital on the go game library. Without it 10 of my friends could all play and essentially own the games I buy. Which is why we are losing this feature because the ignorant consumers are afraid the NSA is watching them through the kinect ( but of course no problem withwebcAms and smart phones) And that they have an Xbox that explodes if you don't check in with in 24 hours. People can be truly unbelievable sometimes. The most pirated console ever was trying to avoid a repeat of history and found a way to bring some great new features to the table doing it but surprise j6p wins again.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

Pretty obvious it was a stop guard for potential exploitation of the family plan/digital on the go game library. Without it 10 of my friends could all play and essentially own the games I buy. Which is why we are losing this feature because the ignorant consumers are afraid the NSA is watching them through the kinect ( but of course no problem withwebcAms and smart phones) And that they have an Xbox that explodes if you don't check in with in 24 hours. People can be truly unbelievable sometimes. The most pirated console ever was trying to avoid a repeat of history and found a way to bring some great new features to the table doing it but surprise j6p wins again.

lol, it was a way to lock down and control the system. creating more profits from destroying the used market. the entire Xbox industry is held up by the money it makes off of XBL and stuff like that. and yes, the consumer won. Great day for us. we don't have to put up with their draconian crap. Because, in the long run all that matters is OUR end user experience.

and for your info the family plan has already been outed as being a joke by several sources. it was DOA and pretty much a farce.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by MiC. HD

We have been officially robbed of a digital future! Consumers stood against Microsoft, and Microsoft buckled instead of believing in their own vision. Music has gone digital, movies have gone digital, and games have and will eventually only be digital.

Now with this complete reversal we get no more family sharing, no more playing games without the discs spinning, no more pulling up your entire library from any Xbox One console. All & only because people are so resistant to change and don't like having to connect to Internet daily (in the year 2013).

Ten years from now, EVERYTHING will be consumed digitally, the worlds been headed in that direction for years now, but no, now we get to enjoy a new generation of last generation consoles. Beefed up specs and improved visuals. We could've had so much more, but now we get more of the same. The secondary market of selling/trading will always be a financial disservice to the game developers/ publishers, and now instead of enjoying the eventual price difference of digital games versus their physical counterparts. We get to enjoy getting up from our couch and swapping discs likes it's the year 1995.

Thanks.

Why do you have 394 Blu-ray titles then?

[Tony208]

a move in the right direction and they've done some dumb stuff along the way

I can't recall the exact words but, the stupidest thing one of the Microsoft reps said was something along the lines of "no internet, stick with the xbox 360".

basically say to people don't buy xbox one? wow

[DetroitSportsFan]

Yeah, well done MS. You backpedaled because Sony was smoking you in customer preorders and retail orders. It's not like they did this because it's what customers wanted - it's because customers voted with their wallets.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

i guess my biggest problem w/that whole thing was "what was the point in the 1st place?"

it's all a moot point now but i'm still curious.

MS sends out a "ping" over the internet and waits for a reply from all of the xbox's that are hooked up and then what??

i know that may be a very crude description....but in my mind it works.

for curiosity sake, let's forget any possible ulterior motives (if they exist or not) and let's just start by talking about today.


You go and buy a game on disk (since we are not talking pure DL even though they exist), you install it on the console, every time you want to play yonu need the disk. What does that mean? if your family and friends borrowed the game you can't play until you get it back, if you trade it in you can't play it any more. It is simle and having the disk works as the DMR if you have the disk you have a copy of the game, if later someone else has it they have a copy and you don't.


Now MS decided "we will go disk less" and you won't need the disk after the install so how can the machine know if you still have the game and it is in the drive or on the shelf or at your relative's orfriend's house or you traded it in . So they needed two things to add that integrity

1) that you register the game so that the same disk can't be used multiple times to install the game on multiple consoles/accounts

2) a way for it to know if you still have the game.

Now for #2 they might have been able to go about it a different way, but the way it would have worked is you take your game, for example, and go to gamestop (or any authorized dealer) to trade in your game. They then let MS know that you don't have the game any more, MS then needs to let your console know that you are not allowed to play it any more since you traded it in. If the 24h check in was not there, you could easily unplug your console from the internet, trade in the game and continue playing indefinitely. So what they did is build in the OS that if your console's game table is older than 24h that it won't allow you to play any games since it might be that you disconnected it just to continue playing your traded in games.


So what it would do is the console would "always" be on-line and constantly check to make sure your game list was up to date, but if for some reason it was disconnected from the internet after 24h from the last check-in (which added to the 1h need for secondary consoles and secondary accounts I think it would be faster than once an hour) it would stop you from playing any game (after all how can it know which game you traded in).

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Stitches

As evidenced by what they did yesterday, I don't see why they couldn't have made these changes at the "end" of the Xbox One life cycle, thus preventing your games from having a shelf life.

1) it is way easier to make major changes before a console launches and all of them are still with MS.

2) it would have been a mess. Do you think that every person that buys the disk based game in 2013 will automatically still have the useless disk in 2018 (or when ever the servers are taken down). Unless they say it from before the console launches (and you will still have many POed customers that did not know it) the simple reality is there would not be any use for anyone to keep a game after it was installed unless they planned on trading it (and then it would be useless since the person would not have the disk (traded in) or the rights to the game.