Son of Batman

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

I find it funny that Jason Todd gets voted to die because he was an annoying brat.

DC recreates Robin, after Tim Drake's turn, as a carbon copy of Todd (in terms of brattiness), and its successful.

It reflects the change in the comic book community since Jason Todd's death. DC pushed out its traditional fanbase in the years following his death, one that had been hanging around since the 1960s. Today's audiences have much different expectations of how comic book characters should behave.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

It reflects the change in the comic book community since Jason Todd's death. DC pushed out its traditional fanbase in the years following his death, one that had been hanging around since the 1960s. Today's audiences have much different expectations of how comic book characters should behave.

yeah, todd was being compared to grayson by fans. dick didnt challenge bruce until he was much deeper into his career. and it wasnt disobedience.
Drake was written with some modern independence but wasnt the brat Todd was.
so now you have a resurrected brat and a rehashed one.

I liked the cain batgirl who had her issues but wasnt in the typical over churnned Wolverine architype. "im badass and i know it..." Shes been phased out.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Metallix87

This is incorrect. Jason Todd's vote was rigged. It's been confirmed that the "kill him" vote won out by 65 votes total, and it was later learned that some individual had rigged an old computer to dial up and vote for his demise every minute or so, so in actuality, most people had voted to spare him.

the fact that his death got that far is a testiment to fan criticism.
there would have been no phone vote if he was a favorite with readers.

[Darkstream]

Jason Todd was originally created as basically a carbon copy of Dick Grayson, but he was boring and no one liked him or cared much at all, but then Post-Crisis, they made him more interesting by being a defiant brat, and everyone hated him more. The problem was that fans didn't want another Robin, especially one that wasn't Dick Grayson. Jason never really got a fair chance. But now, we've had several Robins and people have accepted the "Robin" title as a mantle, so having someone somewhat like Jason again, with Damian, is interesting, especially after we've had boyscout Tim Drake. It's even better that Damian is Batman's own flesh and blood.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

the fact that his death got that far is a testiment to fan criticism.
there would have been no phone vote if he was a favorite with readers.

Jason Todd was fine, voters are too picky.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Jason Todd was fine, voters are too picky.

At the time, I was very young and wanted him dead, just so Batman can go darker.

Many people don't realize this, but it was actually Frank Miller who unintentionally suggested killing Jason Todd off. He did it first in The Dark Knight Returns mini-series --- Jason was already dead when that story takes place. But that was an alternate future story and was never meant to influence anyone into actually killing Jason in the regular continuity. Even if fans didn't vote, I believe DC wanted to reflect the success they had with Frank's work, and would have done it anyway. If the rigging is true and they were involved in the fix, then I wouldn't be surprised. Miller himself later said that he thought it was a mistake for DC to kill Jason Todd off in regular continuity.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Jason Todd was originally created as basically a carbon copy of Dick Grayson, but he was boring and no one liked him or cared much at all, but then Post-Crisis, they made him more interesting by being a defiant brat, and everyone hated him more. The problem was that fans didn't want another Robin, especially one that wasn't Dick Grayson. Jason never really got a fair chance. But now, we've had several Robins and people have accepted the "Robin" title as a mantle, so having someone somewhat like Jason again, with Damian, is interesting, especially after we've had boyscout Tim Drake. It's even better that Damian is Batman's own flesh and blood.

im cool with Damien.
kingdom come (alt universe) has batmans son before damiens arrival.
bruce has been slleping with talia since the 70s.

pre 52 Drake was anointed by ghul as the newest successor in the red robin series.

[Metallix87]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

the fact that his death got that far is a testiment to fan criticism.
there would have been no phone vote if he was a favorite with readers.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that, in the end, it's very likely that more people wanted him to stay rather than die.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Damian has a lot more to him than being an annoying brat. You guys really should check out the Batman and Robin comics. He's a great character. Not every character is supposed to be perfect and likable. He's a trained killer and his story is all about resisting that urge and finding salvation to be like his father. You eventually learn to love Damian. Hopefully this movie will cover some of that.

Correct-a-mundo.

People just hated Damian from the start -- which they were SUPPOSED to! But the more you understand his history, the more you feel for him.

I mean, how screwed up would YOU be if Talia were your mom?

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by Metallix87

True, but that doesn't change the fact that, in the end, it's very likely that more people wanted him to stay rather than die.

he was dead to fans before the voting.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Correct-a-mundo.

People just hated Damian from the start -- which they were SUPPOSED to! But the more you understand his history, the more you feel for him.

I mean, how screwed up would YOU be if Talia were your mom?

Say another thing against Talia Al Ghul. I dare ya. I actually wish we'd get a Ra's Al Ghul film just to see her in another movie but I doubt it will happen.

[AmandaBanana]

I'm looking forward to this, although I know practically nothing about Damian Wayne. If it's anything like Mask of the Phantasm or Under The Red Hood, I'm sure I'll love it!

[Metallix87]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

he was dead to fans before the voting.

Your post is equivalent to putting your hands over your ears and shouting "Nonononononono..."

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Say another thing against Talia Al Ghul. I dare ya. I actually wish we'd get a Ra's Al Ghul film just to see her in another movie but I doubt it will happen.

Hey, no one loves Talia more than I. But the point is, if she were your mom, you would end up pretty screwed up. As Damian did.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Say another thing against Talia Al Ghul. I dare ya. I actually wish we'd get a Ra's Al Ghul film just to see her in another movie but I doubt it will happen.

I really wanted Kate Beckinsale in that role. She would have made a great Talia.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

I really wanted Kate Beckinsale in that role. She would have made a great Talia.

I think I just had a minor heart attack.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

I think I just had a minor heart attack.

Because you agree or disagree?

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Because you agree or disagree?

Because I agree ... like 10,000%.

Talia's one of my favorite characters. Kate is one of my favorite actresses. The combination ... not sure I could survive that.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Because I agree ... like 10,000%.

Talia's one of my favorite characters. Kate is one of my favorite actresses. The combination ... not sure I could survive that.

I just found this... ahhh, what could have been.

[AaronJ]

Damn. Very sweet.