47 Ronin in Japanese - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

steve_dave · 06-02-2014, 02:31 AM

A wee bit late but...

According to this interview, Keanu Reeves confirms that he did his takes in English first then Japanese whereas the other actors shot in Japanese then English.

The true Japanese version runs 2 minutes longer and a comparison can be found here.

McCrutchy · 06-02-2014, 03:58 PM

I'm still not clear on if what is on the Japanese BD is actually this mythic re-shot version, or if it is just the original English version, but with 2:34 of extended/alternate footage seamlessly branched in, and everyone dubbed in Japanese. Remember, Japanese actors dubbing themselves in Japanese with a script doubtless pored over by native speakers, are going to manage to make the dubbed audio look rather convincing.

On the other hand, if they did actually include a version where the original audio is Japanese, why then, is that original audio not offered in lossless DTS-HD MA?

It seems strange.

steve_dave · 06-02-2014, 05:45 PM

I think I know what happened with 47 Ronin...

I reread the article again and it does not state specifically that a cut of the film was assembled from the Japanese filmed takes. I think Universal Pictures didn't want to budget for that so the Japanese Blu-ray got a lazy/budget constrained Japanese language extended version.

This is more likely what happened and why it gives the dubbed look:

It is confirmed that scenes were shot multiple times in Japanese and English however each take is going to look slightly different from the other. Its simply impossible to repeat the exact same scene due to lighting, nature, and actor penchance for improving a performance.

My theory is Universal didn't give the approval and/or budget for the filmed Japanese portions to be edited together to create a true Japanese language cut, as stated earlier. However, Universal realized they already have perfect Japanese audio so why pay new actors to dub the film for Japan?

Simply use the audio recordings from the film shoot and create the Japanese dub from that. It would be less costly to create this mix since no new actors have to be paid for this effort. If the film's original soundmixer created this dub then that would explain why it sounds so perfect compared to the English.

Of course, this type of dubbing would be noticable to the discerning eye since the Japanese filmed take was not presented just the audio from the take.

I know Jodie Foster and Arnold Schwarzenegger perform their own dubs for the French and German/Austrian language versions of their films. Of course, these in a recording studio and not during filming but it does present a more natural dubbed film.

thebard · 06-02-2014, 06:00 PM

Not so sure about that. There is alternate footage and a 3-min difference in runtime between the two:
http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=122983

I have it on order, I can post when I receive it.

I'm sure bonepile's observations are accurate, but it doesn't hurt to get more eyes & ears to evaluate.

McCrutchy · 06-02-2014, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_dave

I know Jodie Foster and Arnold Schwarzenegger perform their own dubs for the French and German/Austrian language versions of their films. Of course, these in a recording studio and not during filming but it does present a more natural dubbed film.

Arnold does not dub himself in German language dubs, probably because his voice is much different in German, and I'm sure because his fee would be considerable anyway. He has a regular German dubbing artist (Thomas Dannenberg) who is closely identified with both him and Sylvester Stallone, amongst others, in Germany. In fact, there was quite a lot of controversy over the film Escape Plan in Germany, because another man was brought in to dub Arnold, given that Dannenberg would be performing both main characters. This did not sit well with many in Germany.

However, I do believe Foster has sometimes dubbed herself in French.

steve_dave · 06-02-2014, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Arnold does not dub himself in German language dubs, probably because his voice is much different in German, and I'm sure because his fee would be considerable anyway. He has a regular German dubbing artist (Thomas Dannenberg) who is closely identified with both him and Sylvester Stallone, amongst others, in Germany. In fact, there was quite a lot of controversy over the film Escape Plan in Germany, because another man was brought in to dub Arnold, given that Dannenberg would be performing both main characters. This did not sit well with many in Germany.

However, I do believe Foster has sometimes dubbed herself in French.

That's right, Schwarznegger has a preferred actor for his German dubs. I forgot that.

Foster does do the French dubs for most of her films and you can hear her in the French language track on the Panic Room DVD. I don't know if any other DVDs or Blu-rays use the French track with her dub though.

TV Tropes has a nice section on this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussio...0zpa7zprab63i7

bonepile · 06-04-2014, 01:36 PM

Thanks to all for continuing this discussion. This "Japanese" version is simply wonderful in the fact that everyone is speaking Japanese. It just makes the film seem "right".

Some of you may remember the Richard Chamberlain series "Shogun" and how that English version never worked, or Tarantino's "Kill Bill 1" with the restaurant slaughter scene shot in color for the Japan version and black and white for everyone else. You have not lived until you've seen KB1 in full color.

I shudder when I see some US studio take on a foreign historical film cause nine times out of ten it never works out. With "47 Ronin" in Japanese it does.

thebard · 06-04-2014, 05:48 PM

Guys, I hate to say this, but I received the disc today and the Japanese audio is just a dub. The initial language selection is just for the menu language, and the audio selection in the pop-up menu just toggles between the English/Japanese audio tracks without changing footage. I've checked both the 2D and 3D disc, same result. There is a very slight time difference between the two discs, but only a matter of seconds.

The postcards are nice, and if there is in fact an extra featurette that might make it worth importing. And of course if you need the Japanese audio rather than subtitles I think this is one of the few editions that offers that.

But if you are purchasing in hopes of a different cut of the film, this isn't it.

06-02-2014, 02:31 AM	#21
steve_dave Blu-ray Duke Member since:Nov 2008 Trading Score:21	A wee bit late but... According to this interview, Keanu Reeves confirms that he did his takes in English first then Japanese whereas the other actors shot in Japanese then English. The true Japanese version runs 2 minutes longer and a comparison can be found here. Last edited by steve_dave; 06-02-2014 at 02:46 AM.

06-02-2014, 06:00 PM	#24
thebard Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Oct 2010 Trading Score:2	Not so sure about that. There is alternate footage and a 3-min difference in runtime between the two: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=122983 I have it on order, I can post when I receive it. I'm sure bonepile's observations are accurate, but it doesn't hurt to get more eyes & ears to evaluate. Last edited by thebard; 06-02-2014 at 07:00 PM.

06-02-2014, 03:58 PM	#22
McCrutchy Contributor Top contributor Member since:Dec 2008 Location:East Coast, USA Home Theater Gallery:2 4K collection:1263 Blu-ray collection:6773 DVD collection:253 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:17	I'm still not clear on if what is on the Japanese BD is actually this mythic re-shot version, or if it is just the original English version, but with 2:34 of extended/alternate footage seamlessly branched in, and everyone dubbed in Japanese. Remember, Japanese actors dubbing themselves in Japanese with a script doubtless pored over by native speakers, are going to manage to make the dubbed audio look rather convincing. On the other hand, if they did actually include a version where the original audio is Japanese, why then, is that original audio not offered in lossless DTS-HD MA? It seems strange.

06-02-2014, 05:45 PM	#23
steve_dave Blu-ray Duke Member since:Nov 2008 Trading Score:21	I think I know what happened with 47 Ronin... I reread the article again and it does not state specifically that a cut of the film was assembled from the Japanese filmed takes. I think Universal Pictures didn't want to budget for that so the Japanese Blu-ray got a lazy/budget constrained Japanese language extended version. This is more likely what happened and why it gives the dubbed look: It is confirmed that scenes were shot multiple times in Japanese and English however each take is going to look slightly different from the other. Its simply impossible to repeat the exact same scene due to lighting, nature, and actor penchance for improving a performance. My theory is Universal didn't give the approval and/or budget for the filmed Japanese portions to be edited together to create a true Japanese language cut, as stated earlier. However, Universal realized they already have perfect Japanese audio so why pay new actors to dub the film for Japan? Simply use the audio recordings from the film shoot and create the Japanese dub from that. It would be less costly to create this mix since no new actors have to be paid for this effort. If the film's original soundmixer created this dub then that would explain why it sounds so perfect compared to the English. Of course, this type of dubbing would be noticable to the discerning eye since the Japanese filmed take was not presented just the audio from the take. I know Jodie Foster and Arnold Schwarzenegger perform their own dubs for the French and German/Austrian language versions of their films. Of course, these in a recording studio and not during filming but it does present a more natural dubbed film.

06-04-2014, 01:36 PM	#27
bonepile Member Member since:Jul 2008 Location:East coast, USA Blu-ray collection:56 Blu-ray reviews:1	Thanks to all for continuing this discussion. This "Japanese" version is simply wonderful in the fact that everyone is speaking Japanese. It just makes the film seem "right". Some of you may remember the Richard Chamberlain series "Shogun" and how that English version never worked, or Tarantino's "Kill Bill 1" with the restaurant slaughter scene shot in color for the Japan version and black and white for everyone else. You have not lived until you've seen KB1 in full color. I shudder when I see some US studio take on a foreign historical film cause nine times out of ten it never works out. With "47 Ronin" in Japanese it does.

06-04-2014, 05:48 PM	#28
thebard Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Oct 2010 Trading Score:2	Guys, I hate to say this, but I received the disc today and the Japanese audio is just a dub. The initial language selection is just for the menu language, and the audio selection in the pop-up menu just toggles between the English/Japanese audio tracks without changing footage. I've checked both the 2D and 3D disc, same result. There is a very slight time difference between the two discs, but only a matter of seconds. The postcards are nice, and if there is in fact an extra featurette that might make it worth importing. And of course if you need the Japanese audio rather than subtitles I think this is one of the few editions that offers that. But if you are purchasing in hopes of a different cut of the film, this isn't it.

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