Optimizing 3D's potential using Darbee Video Processors

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

What "detail visibility" is invisible until this thing is connected?

As stated in the opening post, depth-cue details become apparent to the eyes. Depth-cue is what I define as detail that's important to the stereopsis phenomenon. Visual senses pick-up-on this, stimulating stronger depth perception. The 3D looks stronger with many encodes, and there have been a few movies where there is no noticeable affect. i.e. No depth-cue detail present?

If the comments seem meaningless to you then you need to experience it for yourself, if you have a desire to understand factual results. I post my findings for those interested.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

Got any real world video comparisons?

Sorry, nothing that I have an ability to demonstrate online.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Paul H

As stated in the opening post, depth-cue details become apparent to the eyes. Depth-cue is what I define as detail that's important to the stereopsis phenomenon. Visual senses pick-up-on this, stimulating stronger depth perception. The 3D looks stronger with many encodes, and there have been a few movies where there is no noticeable affect. i.e. No depth-cue detail present?

If the comments seem meaningless to you then you need to experience it for yourself, if you have a desire to understand factual results. I post my findings for those interested.

My admittedly basic understanding of how to structure a picture on a television is to correctly assemble an image from multiple individual pixels. Pixels are of a given size, and display in various colors and groups of them make up a picture.


If they have any depth cues, I've never heard them discussed. If this system takes groups of pixels and does something to them, I'm just curious what that is. Otherwise, all this thing can do is accentuate variance with adjacent pixels, or groups of pixels, and that methodology can be explained by more than a shrug.


Clearly, something is going on, and it shouldn't be a mystery what it is. As described, it sounds like mysticism. It's like asking a magician, "How do you do that trick?" and getting the answer, "Well, buy a ticket and come to the show and see if you can tell if it's really a trick."


I don't believe in magic.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

If this system takes groups of pixels and does something to them, I'm just curious what that is. Otherwise, all this thing can do is accentuate variance with adjacent pixels, or groups of pixels, and that methodology can be explained by more than a shrug.

Good questions for the inventor/inventors, who utilize the algorithms for the technology. I just enjoy the visual enthusiast's thrill that it gives me optimizing the 3D in my displays with these devices.
Some technical info may be found in the DARBEE Visual Presence - Genesis and Technology Overview - White Paper

[Paul H]

Latest visual tweaks for the Four Darblet unit chain.
Optimizing effective 3D detail perception for the following Blu-ray 3D titles:
"Live-Die-Repeat/Edge of Tomorrow 3D" (3D conversion)
"Hansel & Gretel Witch Hunters 3D" (native-3D)
Viewed on a Panasonic 65" plasma, model VT25.

Visual settings (when in a chain) that tweaks apparent smooth film-like features on faces and boundary edges:
Four Darbee Darblet chain:
1st Darblet closest to 3D Blu-ray player: High Def set to 20.
2nd Darblet set to Full Pop 30.
3rd Darblet set to Full Pop 35.
4th Darblet set to Game 30.

Noticeable affects when the units are in chain:
1st Darblet at low level (20) High Def adds film-like smoothness to details in the entire image, most noticeable on "Live-Die-Repeat/Edge of Tomorrow 3D" (3D conversion).

2nd Darblet Full Pop 30 - boosts (by my definition) "visible depth-cue detail" without noticeable artifacts.
i.e. Greater visual stereo difference in object appearance.

3rd Darblet Full Pop 35 compounds depth-cue detail visibility, optimizing visual stereo perception without adding noticeable artifacts.

4th Darblet Game @ 30 intensifies detail visibility in dark/night scenes, most noticeable in "Hansel & Gretel Witch Hunters 3D" (native-3D), that affects or boosts visual pixel illumination on detail in dark atmospheric situations on this plasma display.

[Retrofit]

Does it really matter if you use Game or Full Pop or Hi Def?

I thought these were quick presets. That is, if you tweak them, then it's just "Darbyvision" set to a certain level.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Retrofit

Does it really matter if you use Game or Full Pop or Hi Def?

My findings point to yes, it definitely matters.
The ongoing experience finds that each setting has its own unique quality for enhancement found with all 3 settings, viewing repeated 3D scenes in a multitude of trials, changing the intensity on each unit and comparing the benefits to the borderline of visible artifacting and degradation.

Full Pop is useful for 3D intensity when consciously perceiving noticeable object distances.
A noticeable artifact when one unit is set too high produces unnaturally bright whiteness to eyes. Two units compounded at lower settings drastically reduces the side-affect and pleasingly makes the 3D illusion more apparent..

I find setting a Darblet unit to "Game" at low levels increases detail clarity in dark scenes. With the "Game" setting option, I no longer have issues viewing low light visual detail with 3D glasses, the detail now visibly apparent in a variety of different 3D movies.

A Darblet in the chain with a High-Def setting at a low level enhances the glassy mirror-like window image with improved clarity of detail with 3D Glasses on. Too much of an increase in the intensity and it adds unnatural edge roughness to features and increases artifact visibility from the other units in the chain

[Joe D.]

Anybody try the Darbee dvp 5000s?

http://www.darbeevision.com/products/dvp5000s

As one reviewer wrote:

"Darbee and 3D

"Few people ever seem to rave (care?) about the quality of their TV’s 3D image. But this is another area where the DVP 5000 proved useful. The 3D Blu-rays I checked out with Darbee processing active all looked notably better: the picture depth was greater, the highlights and shadows punchier. It didn’t do anything to eliminate the 3D crosstalk artifacts on the set I watched with, but it also didn’t make them worse."

https://hdguru.com/darbeevision-darb...p-5000-review/

There are mixed reviews on whether or not it is worth it for regular blu ray, cable or DVD:

http://www.soundstagexperience.com/i...video-enhancer

https://theguycornernyc.com/2016/06/...0s-the-review/

Saw it going for $150 at Crutchfeld.

[nycomet]

I have one DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet and I clearly see a noticeable difference on my 135-inch screen with Darbee activated. (I believe forum member Paul H daisy chains FOUR Darbees in his set-up!).

My eyes perceive more contrast and a sharper image. It might be an illusion, but to me it brings the quality of the viewing experience up a few notches.

At this point I will not upgrade to the new Darbee device, as the one I have does a great job.

My next upgrade will be adding Atmos/DTS:X to my home theater. Further out, I might consider a projector upgrade (no rush). I am waiting for more details and pricing on the soon-to-be-released BenQ 11000. From what I've read so far, it will offer 4K (and 4K upscaling). The question is: will it be 3D compatible? I still do not know the answer to that question.

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by nycomet

I have one DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet and I clearly see a noticeable difference on my 135-inch screen with Darbee activated. (I believe forum member Paul H daisy chains FOUR Darbees in his set-up!).

My eyes perceive more contrast and a sharper image. It might be an illusion, but to me it brings the quality of the viewing experience up a few notches.

At this point I will not upgrade to the new Darbee device, as the one I have does a great job.

My next upgrade will be adding Atmos/DTS:X to my home theater. Further out, I might consider a projector upgrade (no rush). I am waiting for more details and pricing on the soon-to-be-released BenQ 11000. From what I've read so far, it will offer 4K (and 4K upscaling). The question is: will it be 3D compatible? I still do not know the answer to that question.

Hi nycomet,

Thanx for the feedback.

Am sure with a screen that size you would know if it works or not.

Might very well order one through crutchfeld since that gives me two months to play around with it and also have ten dollars in bonus points bringing cost down to $140. An early Chanukah present from a Gentile wife to her Jewish husband?

Too bad would be unable to use it for cable since use separate inputs but don't think my better half would allow us to go Paul's route doubling the expense. She can live watching QVC without enhancement.

[althus]

Yes it does. But to be clear, it improves the shadow detail, texture and details of the picture making it pop more, the same as with 2d. It does not improve the stereo separation making it more 3D.

[althus]

Originally Posted by Joe D.

Too bad would be unable to use it for cable since use separate inputs

That's how I started but I love it so much and I feel it makes even more of a difference with cable. I would switch inputs back and forth until I got a new receiver and fixed the problem. I keep it very low for high quality sources like blu-rays but increase it for cable. Some say no way, anything that alters the image in any way is bad. I say it's awesome and wouldn't watch anything without it. Try it and see for yourself.

[BackQuack]

I've been on the fence about purchasing one of these for a few years now since I bought my projector. I have to admit that I'm really disappointed in it's 3D performance. More specifically, the "black bars" on 2.39 (or like) movies are more dark gray and are really distracting. It takes me out of the movie experience entirely. I've heard this is a problem with DLP link in general. No matter how much tweaking I do with the menu's settings, I can't get an acceptable image. I've even tried 3 different brands of glasses. Do you think the Darbee will help by making the "black bars" darker without compromising the image quality. TIA.

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by althus

Yes it does. But to be clear, it improves the shadow detail, texture and details of the picture making it pop more, the same as with 2d. It does not improve the stereo separation making it more 3D.

That's how I started but I love it so much and I feel it makes even more of a difference with cable. I would switch inputs back and forth until I got a new receiver and fixed the problem. I keep it very low for high quality sources like blu-rays but increase it for cable. Some say no way, anything that alters the image in any way is bad. I say it's awesome and wouldn't watch anything without it. Try it and see for yourself.

Hi althus,

Thanx so much.

So though it would not improve the depth, it does add more detail to the 3D picture as it does with 2D, up converted DVDs?

Not worried about one input for blu ray since I use my set's "custom" for 3D and standard blu ray, "standard" for my DVD-Rs (record a lot from Turner Classic Movies) and "vivid" (considerably lowered to compensate for picture brightness) for standard DVDs. But would like to use it for cable as well yet that would indeed mean disconnecting and reconnecting.

Did read where it can be used with a HDMI splitter and switch box. Already have a splitter I'm not yet using for the input and can get a switch box can use for the different outputs I use (cable settings are slightly different from blu ray).

UPDATE: Gave in and just ordered it. With bonus points from Crutchfeld cost was $139. Will arrive on Tuesday.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by BackQuack

I've been on the fence about purchasing one of these for a few years now since I bought my projector. I have to admit that I'm really disappointed in it's 3D performance. More specifically, the "black bars" on 2.39 (or like) movies are more dark gray and are really distracting. It takes me out of the movie experience entirely. I've heard this is a problem with DLP link in general. No matter how much tweaking I do with the menu's settings, I can't get an acceptable image. I've even tried 3 different brands of glasses. Do you think the Darbee will help by making the "black bars" darker without compromising the image quality. TIA.

The Darbee device will not make your "black bars" more black. The "blackness" of the "black bars" is best achieved by doing everything you can to make your home theater room as dark as possible. Keep in mind that light coming off the screen itself is reflected from the walls, floor and ceiling back onto the screen which can "dilute" the perceived black levels on the screen -- even in the black bars.

I hung black ceiling-to-floor curtains on the walls of my home theater (got them from Kohls and used IKEA rods). The screen wall is completely covered with inexpensive black stretch fabric from JoAnn's (stapled to the wall around the screen). I stapled more black stretch velvet on the ceiling. I placed cheap black area rugs (from Walmart) on the floor. All of this effort makes my home theater pitch black. There is virtually no light reflection back onto the screen.

One other thing you can do is to make sure you select the right gamma setting on your projector. The lower the gamma number is set, the brighter the picture; the higher the gamma number, the darker the picture. If the gamma setting is too low, you will see a "grayish" tint to your black levels. If it's set too high, the picture will be too dark. For 3D viewing, my projector is set to gamma 2.0. It's perfect for most movies (but I did have to change it to 1.8 for Star Trek Beyond, which is overall mastered too dark). For 2D movies and TV shows, the gamma is set to 1.8.

Getting back to the Darbee, it only affects the picture, primarily by using edge enhancement techniques. The end result is a boost in perceived contrast and sharpness without any alteration to the light output of the projector.

I have my Darbee positioned on the HDMI output from my Yamaha AV receiver that connects to the projector. This position allows all input sources to use the Darbee processing.

One cool thing about the Darbee is that is offers a "demo" mode that shifts between the original source and the Darbee processed image. One can view the before and after effect while adjusting the settings on the fly. Once you achieve the visual appearance that is most satisfying, simply set it and forget it. That being said, one can increase or decrease the intensity of the Darbee processing simply by pressing buttons on the included Darbee remote (it's a simple "cheap" remote, but it does the job). On my big screen (135-inch) Darbee makes a noticeable difference.

I am hoping that forum member Paul H will chime in. He is a Darbee expert.

These YouTube videos showcase the Darbee effect (before and after). Search YouTube for more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zjQ-UGSrsk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH-HoHxFIL0

[BackQuack]

Thanks nycomet for your response.

I've tried tweaking the settings every which way including the gamma. I really haven't found a happy medium with any of the settings. When I get the brightness to where it's acceptable, contrast suffers. When I raise the contrast and lower the brightness, the image is too dim. It's 2500 lumens at a 9' throw distance with the screen only 92" so I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

I've got total light control in my room which actually makes it stand out even more, a pitch black room with dark gray bars on the top and bottom of the picture. However, if the movie is 1.78 or 1.85, I don't really notice the lack of contrast since the bars aren't there. I just watched Sin City: A Dame To Kill For and thought the image was very good.

I can't really take your suggestion and make the room entirely black since it's our family room; however, I have thought about masking the screen. I still may give the Darbee a shot though now that the price has dropped. Thanks again.

[althus]

Originally Posted by Joe D.

Hi althus,

Thanx so much.

So though it would not improve the depth, it does add more detail to the 3D picture as it does with 2D, up converted DVDs?

Not worried about one input for blu ray since I use my set's "custom" for 3D and standard blu ray, "standard" for my DVD-Rs (record a lot from Turner Classic Movies) and "vivid" (considerably lowered to compensate for picture brightness) for standard DVDs. But would like to use it for cable as well yet that would indeed mean disconnecting and reconnecting.

Did read where it can be used with a HDMI splitter and switch box. Already have a splitter I'm not yet using for the input and can get a switch box can use for the different outputs I use (cable settings are slightly different from blu ray).

UPDATE: Gave in and just ordered it. With bonus points from Crutchfeld cost was $139. Will arrive on Tuesday.

Great! I think you'll like it. Let us know. I did have a splitter. It did work but I noticed it effected the color a bit even though it was supposed to pass through the same color and resolution. Just something else to tinker with.

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by althus

Great! I think you'll like it. Let us know. I did have a splitter. It did work but I noticed it effected the color a bit even though it was supposed to pass through the same color and resolution. Just something else to tinker with.

Hi althus,

Thanks so much. Can't wait to get it.

I too am concerned about a slight signal loss using a splitter though mine too says no loss in picture quality. It would also mean having to get a switch box for the output so the combination might defeat the purpose.

If it does the job, will just save my pennies for another one for the cable.

Meanwhile very excited what it can do for my blu ray and dvd collection. And if it gives a slight improvement in detail to the dvd-r recordings made from my Panasonic recorder (with flexible timing) then it will really be a plus.

Will let ya know. And thanks again for your help and advice.

Joe

[Joe D.]

Got it today. It's great!

Amazed by the additional clarity and detail it delivers. Color is stronger not uniformly but in places like shades within flesh tones, sunlight affecting grass, etc. 3D picture is stronger and dimension is slightly enhanced not by more depth but by the additional detail within that depth.

Definitely worth the investment.

Only thing it just comes with instructions for connections on the back of the box. Though simple to use, there is a card giving it's website which will provide how go get started.

Though my switch box was rated compatible, the Blu ray picture kept flickering. Realized could use my a/v receiver for cable and discs and it resolved the problem. Didn't use receiver in the past for I thought hi def settings for cable could be different from other devices. Now know that is not the case.

[nycomet]

^^^^^^^

Hey there Joe,

I am glad you are happy with the Darbee. Last night I was viewing Star Wars The Force Awakens in 3D and I started playing with the settings on my Darbee. I can confirm that you are right about the increase in color pop on certain settings. Improvements with contrast, brightness, sharpness and color intensity are all affected by the Darbee.

What equipment are you viewing your movies on? Are you using a projector and projection screen? If so, what is your screen size and which projector are you using?

Have a great Thanksgiving holiday!