Will 4K Blu-rays play on 1080p screens? (Please read post)

[Lazarus Dark]

Originally Posted by saprano

Panasonic's player does 4:2:0 to 4:4:4



http://news.panasonic.co.uk/pressrel...tended-12864404K High-Precision Chroma Processor

The UB900 incorporates a newly developed 4K-ready engine, called the 4K High-Precision Chroma Processor. By using an original high-accuracy multi-tap process to interpolate the decoded 4K (4:2:0) signals of Ultra HD Blu-ray content to 4K (4:4:4), it delivers beautiful, natural pictures with lifelike depth and vivid colors. The UB900 also has an original 4K Direct Chroma Up-scaling function so that it can deliver 4K-quality pictures with high resolution and beautiful colours from 2K content.

* A 4K/60p/4:4:4-compatible TV must be connected with an 18-Gbps-compatible high-speed cable. When reproducing Ultra HD Blu-ray content, 4:4:4/36-bit data is output for 4K/24p, and 4:2:2/36-bit data is output for 4K/60p.

That seems to be about interpolating 2160p discs from 4:2:0 2160p to 4:4:4 2160p.
This thread is about what will happen at 1080p output on 1080p tv's. If the studio allows it on a per disc basis, 2160p 4:2:0 can be downscaled to 4:4:4 1080p chroma without any interpolation, its a lossless process. The question is, will either of the first gen players actually do this or will they just discard the extra chroma and output 4:2:0 1080p as if it were a regular bluray.

If these first players can downscale UHD bluray to 4:4:4 1080p along with remapping the WCG to deep color for tv's that will accept deep color, that would go a huge way to justifying their cost for those who aren't ready to toss out perfectly good 1080p displays (yes, they are cheap for first gen players, but for those with 1080p sets and pj's, we need to know we are getting better than bluray quality to invest hundreds on a player. I can't drop $400+ for almost no improvement in pq.)

[magick]

^ Thanks for your reply. That's good to know, but I was referring to different kind of conversion.

UHD 4:2:0 to UHD 4:4:4 is just a regular chroma upsampling (interpolation), however UHD 4:2:0 fo FHD 4:4:4 is downscaling of luma with full bandwidth chroma preservation. So, UHD content has promise of better Full HD image then 1080p BD could ever deliver.

[whats4k]

Originally Posted by kashif

So what about people who have 4K TV without HDR like me? Will these discs play fine?

Yes, HDR discs will still play on non-HDR 4k.

HDR doesn't even have a universal standard yet, all these new HDR 4k sets at CES have to be compliant with a lot of different versions of HDR to be safe because no one knows which to use.

If I were to replace my non-HDR 4k set, it definitely wont be now, im going to wait a few years until 4k tech is finalized. By then chances are prices will be much better also.

[kashif]

Originally Posted by whats4k

Yes, HDR discs will still play on non-HDR 4k.

HDR doesn't even have a universal standard yet, all these new HDR 4k sets at CES have to be compliant with a lot of different versions of HDR to be safe because no one knows which to use.

If I were to replace my non-HDR 4k set, it definitely wont be now, im going to wait a few years until 4k tech is finalized. By then chances are prices will be much better also.

Thanks.

[bigalroden]

I have an Epson tw6100w projector, a 96 inch fixed screen, and it'll be a while before I can justify a 4k projector, although I intend to upgrade in time, probably to the Sony one that's currently around £7k. But I need a new blu ray player soon as my current one has problems, so my thinking is to get a uhd one in preparation. But is this daft?

[mjvmovieman]

Tried Angry Birds Movie 4k disc on Xbox One S connected to 1080p projector - did not play.

[waff]

Originally Posted by ahmedreda

I still need video though. Will the second HDMI 1.4 port output 1080p video along with the audio?
My goal is to play a UHD disc on my 1080p projector in order to get access to the sound track on the UHD disc.

If you don't have HDCP 2.2 throughout you can still play the UHD disc, it just forces a downscale to 1080p, which is what you are going to do anyway.

[mjvmovieman]

Originally Posted by waff

If you don't have HDCP 2.2 throughout you can still play the UHD disc, it just forces a downscale to 1080p, which is what you are going to do anyway.

The disc wouldn't play on my 1080p setup with Xbox One S. I was hoping it would downscale but it just gave me a frozen black screen.

[ahmedreda]

Thanks, I have since upgraded the receiver (Denon 6200) and the projector (JVC RS400) so no longer an issue! Before I upgraded the receiver, I sent 4K video directly to the projector and audio to the receiver. Worked ok but I needed to set a delay on the audio as well as I was missing the OSD from the receiver to show volume/menus etc..

Originally Posted by waff

If you don't have HDCP 2.2 throughout you can still play the UHD disc, it just forces a downscale to 1080p, which is what you are going to do anyway.

[mjvmovieman]

Originally Posted by ahmedreda

Thanks, I have since upgraded the receiver (Denon 6200) and the projector (JVC RS400) so no longer an issue! Before I upgraded the receiver, I sent 4K video directly to the projector and audio to the receiver. Worked ok but I needed to set a delay on the audio as well as I was missing the OSD from the receiver to show volume/menus etc..

So do you think the receiver I have is the reason 4k isn't working on my 1080 projector?

[rbg08]

I had no problems playing UHD discs through my Xbox One S when it was connected directly to my 2014 Samsung 1080P TV. It just downscaled the video to 1080P as others have said. I also had to set a delay on the audio since I was using ARC to get audio back to my receiver from the TV.

[mjvmovieman]

Originally Posted by rbg08

I had no problems playing UHD discs through my Xbox One S when it was connected directly to my 2014 Samsung 1080P TV. It just downscaled the video to 1080P as others have said. I also had to set a delay on the audio since I was using ARC to get audio back to my receiver from the TV.

I wonder if I need an hdmi 2.0 cable for it to work.

[waff]

So do you think the receiver I have is the reason 4k isn't working on my 1080 projector?

I wonder if I need an hdmi 2.0 cable for it to work.

The cable is possibly an issue. I had a similar scenario where I had a cable that couldn't support the run through my receiver, so I had nothing but a black screen. Once I switched out cables it worked. My receiver did not support HDCP 2.2, so the picture was only 1080p when a movie played.

[katiehlvr2]

Originally Posted by whats4k

Yes, HDR discs will still play on non-HDR 4k.

HDR doesn't even have a universal standard yet, all these new HDR 4k sets at CES have to be compliant with a lot of different versions of HDR to be safe because no one knows which to use.

If I were to replace my non-HDR 4k set, it definitely wont be now, im going to wait a few years until 4k tech is finalized. By then chances are prices will be much better also.

Not real sure what you are waiting to be finalized.
If you have a 4k HDR set that includes dolby vision, you are future proof.
No need to wait

[mjvmovieman]

Originally Posted by waff

The cable is possibly an issue. I had a similar scenario where I had a cable that couldn't support the run through my receiver, so I had nothing but a black screen. Once I switched out cables it worked. My receiver did not support HDCP 2.2, so the picture was only 1080p when a movie played.

Update: so simply switching out the cables allowed me to play Angry Birds 4k disc, however Independence Day 4k disc gave me an error message (try another disc). I wonder if this has to do with it being an hdr disc?

Update 2: Tried ID4 UHD disc again - and it's working!

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by mjvmovieman

Update: so simply switching out the cables allowed me to play Angry Birds 4k disc, however Independence Day 4k disc gave me an error message (try another disc). I wonder if this has to do with it being an hdr disc?

They're both HDR encoded discs.

[js666]

I recently upgraded to the oppo upd 203 but still have a 1080p kuro plasma. I also just bought the John Wick 2 4k disc. I was watching the 4k version but it's overall much darker than the 1080p version. Maybe I'm answering my own question but is that to be expected since I don't have a 4k set yet? My oppo video settings are pretty much set to "default" so am I missing something in the oppo video settings? Just looking for some confirmation...

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by js666

I recently upgraded to the oppo upd 203 but still have a 1080p kuro plasma. I also just bought the John Wick 2 4k disc. I was watching the 4k version but it's overall much darker than the 1080p version. Maybe I'm answering my own question but is that to be expected since I don't have a 4k set yet? My oppo video settings are pretty much set to "default" so am I missing something in the oppo video settings? Just looking for some confirmation...

HDR content is graded using higher nit display monitors, so overall an SDR set will make everything look even darker than it actually is.

[rroeder]

The first Ghostbusters is the only UHD that looks overly dark or grainy on my 4K SDR tv, others have looked quite nice tho.

I have read plenty of comments here saying some UHD's look darker on lower nit HDR tv's as well.

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by js666

I recently upgraded to the oppo upd 203 but still have a 1080p kuro plasma. I also just bought the John Wick 2 4k disc. I was watching the 4k version but it's overall much darker than the 1080p version. Maybe I'm answering my own question but is that to be expected since I don't have a 4k set yet? My oppo video settings are pretty much set to "default" so am I missing something in the oppo video settings? Just looking for some confirmation...

You can change the target luminescence in the oppo video settings. Adjust that number to experiment how it changes the brightness.