Lady in Dream (1968) [No 3D Blu-ray]

[Interdimensional]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Sounds like they are crediting moving things in different directions at different speeds on multiple planes as making the film stereoscopic. That is manipulation of monocular depth cues to create a greater sense of depth for a flat picture, rather than the traditional definition of stereoscopic 3D, having two discrete images of each scene, one for each eye, that provide binocular depth. Hard to say definitively, but I think this is a case of false advertisement.

Is it possible they shot it that way to take advantage of the Pulfrich effect? I haven't seen the film in question, but if the movement is mostly in the same direction (foreground relative to background) that might have worked.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by Interdimensional

Is it possible they shot it that way to take advantage of the Pulfrich effect? I haven't seen the film in question, but if the movement is mostly in the same direction (foreground relative to background) that might have worked.

That's a great thought. I don't rightly know, and I'll leave it for others to decide. It is worth watching in 2D regardless--a trippy film by master animator Osamu Dezaki.

On that note, I hope we do get restorations of the true stereoscopic Silver Age anime on Blu-ray 3D some day. Starchaser is waiting with 3D DCP in hand, obviously, but Scoopers and Dead Heat deserve a re-visit too. They receive a lot of unjust heckling in their few reviews online. Discotek's Justin Sevakis has a decent piece for Animenewsnetwork's Pile of Shame. Both are quite fun--two of the best movies of the Silver Age, honestly, though that's not saying much. For completeness, there were also three 15-20min Japanese shorts released anaglyph, featuring Little Ghost Q-Taro or Ultra B. I have no idea what they are like.

[BleedOrange11]

KOFA explanation of Panscope. Basically, the Panscope dual-strip 35mm camera takes two "Techniscope"-style images, which are afterward stacked on top of each other for a 35mm single-strip over/under "Space-Vision"-style image for release prints.




Not sure what this one is. Maybe The Devil and The Beauty negative (not Panscope)?

[Interdimensional]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

That's a great thought. I don't rightly know, and I'll leave it for others to decide. It is worth watching in 2D regardless--a trippy film by master animator Osamu Dezaki.

On that note, I hope we do get restorations of the true stereoscopic Silver Age anime on Blu-ray 3D some day. Starchaser is waiting with 3D DCP in hand, obviously, but Scoopers and Dead Heat deserve a re-visit too. They receive a lot of unjust heckling in their few reviews online. Discotek's Justin Sevakis has a decent piece for Animenewsnetwork's Pile of Shame. Both are quite fun--two of the best movies of the Silver Age, honestly, though that's not saying much. For completeness, there were also three 15-20min Japanese shorts released anaglyph, featuring Little Ghost Q-Taro or Ultra B. I have no idea what they are like.

I took a look at the trailer, and based on what I'm seeing there, my earlier suggestion seems unlikely, unless they just went all out for one individual sequence.

Starchaser is a big loss, and as a Korean production, very relevant to the thread. What was accomplished on that film is amazing, and groundbreaking, and so effective.

I don't know what it'd take to generate interest in the other films you mention, I consider creating 3-D imagery through those analog techniques an impressive achievement.

[osmos512]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

On that note, I hope we do get restorations of the true stereoscopic Silver Age anime on Blu-ray 3D some day. Starchaser is waiting with 3D DCP in hand, obviously, but Scoopers and Dead Heat deserve a re-visit too. They receive a lot of unjust heckling in their few reviews online. Discotek's Justin Sevakis has a decent piece for Animenewsnetwork's Pile of Shame. Both are quite fun--two of the best movies of the Silver Age, honestly, though that's not saying much. For completeness, there were also three 15-20min Japanese shorts released anaglyph, featuring Little Ghost Q-Taro or Ultra B. I have no idea what they are like.

This is the first I’ve heard of 3D Anime from the Silver Age. I’d kickstart any restoration in a heartbeat.

Also, since Scoopers and Dead Heat were produced for the VHD, would that make them the first 3D films created for home media rather than theatrical?

Originally Posted by Interdimensional

Starchaser is a big loss, and as a Korean production, very relevant to the thread. What was accomplished on that film is amazing, and groundbreaking, and so effective.

I don't know what it'd take to generate interest in the other films you mention, I consider creating 3-D imagery through those analog techniques an impressive achievement.

Now that we have Treasure of the Four Crowns, Starchaser is at the top of my wishlist.

Has anyone seen the 3D DCP of Starchaser? Is it in good condition or does it need the 3DFA’s magic touch?

[BleedOrange11]

I'm sure there was at least some DTV X-rated 3D material released prior to VHD's debut.

I think Starchaser's 3D DCP mostly played in Korea? PQ probably looks the same as the current Blu-ray. I don't think anyone is as thorough as Greg Kintz at finding and fixing 3D misalignments, but I don't know what the DCP looks like.

[qw0aszx]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

but Scoopers and Dead Heat deserve a re-visit too.

DEAD HEAT already had a HD restoration I believe, though in 2D only.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by qw0aszx

DEAD HEAT already had a HD restoration I believe, though in 2D only.

Where?

[BleedOrange11]

Here are some images of the camera on set of Hong Kil-dong (1976). I took them from the very low-res, compressed trailer on KOFA's website. I believe we can surmise that Hong Kil-dong was shot dual-strip 3D, as opposed to single-strip, because KOFA holds an original negative element but only for one eye (although I have doubts because I only see one film magazine?). Mike, are you, or anyone else, able to make anything out about the rig on display here?








And here is a photo of the credits sequence of the negative, I guess?

[bavanut]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Mike, are you, or anyone else, able to make anything out about the rig on display here?

Quick, off-the-cuff remarks:

First, with a massive, bold underline, I am in awe of your research on the various East Asian 3-D films and systems, Bleed Orange. My research lately has been strictly limited to the Anglophone world, and I've sure had my hands full. But you have come up with some truly amazing finds.

I will admit, I did not know about this film before now, let alone the 3-D system.

I am guessing we are looking at a curious and proprietary single-strip system of local invention. The fact we see only one magazine is my clue. But if more information comes to light that proves me wrong, I won't be too embarrassed, just eager to learn more!

My thought is that there is definitely lateral offset in the opening credits frame grabs. I'm not on a computer right now where I can convert these images to anaglyphs to assess the parallax gamut, but my hunch is that this is a single-strip film, and the credits do seem to indicate that. So... if they have stereopairs of the opening credits, then surely they have stereopairs for the rest of the flick. I mean, makes sense, right? You know better than I do, but is it possible some not-so-tech-savvy copywriter has misstated the facts (that is, they have both eyes but only a viewable scan of one eye)?

[BleedOrange11]

Thank you for your expertise, Mike, and for looking at the photos.

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't want to make too many assumptions. That is a 3D rig in the photos I've posted from the trailer, right? No possible way it's a 2D rig for some other movie of the same protagonist with that trailer assigned to the wrong film online? There seems to be a mirror in there, given the reflection of the foliage in the second photo.

And those credits shots of the negative are actually single-strip over/under? Any way it's just two 2.35:1 frames next to each other in sequence, like Techniscope (or dual-strip Panscope)? I tried opening these in Stereo Photo Maker and auto-aligning and manually adjusting the distortions. I'm not very experienced, but I am not getting much offset when I line them up. To be honest, these photos are just miserable.

I believe it is entirely possible that these men do not know what they are holding and need help from 3D experts. I say they have the negative of only one eye because I'm repeating what I'm reading in Engrish interviews through Google translate, and I am posting these photos because I believe it is appropriate to challenge that information.

Jeong Seong-il: So, what kind of movies are in the archive after that?

Jang Gwang-heon: "Hong Gil-dong". But this "Hong Gil-dong", I checked this morning, and until now, I only have your film, but there was a problem with the film, so I did not move it to print. So I didn't even know it was 3D. The original negative is correct, but there is only one 2D image, so obviously we only have one of the left and right, and there is not one image. Because only you exist and there is no record, until now, all of our employees did not know that this was a 3D movie. Now, it is classified as a 3D movie, but it is only to the extent of confirming that is one of the left and right.

https://www.kmdb.or.kr/story/5/1328

(This interview is 9 years old BTW, but nothing on their website indicates any further progress on this film since.)

They discuss Hong Kil-dong more, but it is giving me a hard time copying and pasting, and I don't feel like typing it all. They say they didn't know it was a 3D movie until recently, and that they only have the negative for one eye, and that they cannot confirm how it was shot or projected. They haven't even seen the film because there is currently no media of it available for viewing.

Apparently, the trailer introduces the film as "the world's first three-dimensional film based on spectral shooting developed in Korea". Whatever that means. Interviewer suggests it may indicate a different system than Panscope. Interviewer says that "according to the records, it is said that Hong Gil-dong was helped by the technology of the Japanese production team." Archive man says there is no way to confirm any of this because they do not have positive prints and they only have one eye of the negative.

Based on the low-quality trailer and photos they've posted, I think we may be able to answer some of those questions, but I'm not confident in my ability to assess film strips or camera rigs. Looks like single-strip 35mm over/under 3D camera and negative? If so, this 3D film is not lost at all but right under their noses, waiting to be restored from the OCN.

[globalimages2]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Based on the low-quality trailer and photos they've posted, I think we may be able to answer some of those questions, but I'm not confident in my ability to assess film strips or camera rigs. Looks like single-strip 35mm over/under 3D camera and negative? If so, this 3D film is not lost at all but right under their noses, waiting to be restored from the OCN.

I agree with you that the camera shown looks like a 3D rig. Unfortunately, from just the brief, low quality and "unlucky" shots it can no be fully seen so who knows exactly what it is. Could be some kind of single strip contraption (my guess as well) but could also be a two-cameras rig, with the second camera out of view i.e. underneath or inside the "blimp" as would be good design for a system using a semi-silver mirror, like this could very well be.

The pictures of the title frames are also unlucky in that they do not show a whole two-frames (or a frame pair if indeed 3D). Showing the perforations would've help. Do they look like over/under 3-D? They could certainly be, my opinion from just free viewing is that they are. They do claim the "spectra shooting 3d" whatever that means. Also, no idea what that is, hope it's some sort of separation archival element or something, or was shot with monochromatic light or something for some reason, 'cos it totally lacks at least 1 color channel, 2 by the looks of it. Also, could be some sort of one eye of an anaglyph element, I guess, and not be over/under stereoscopic after all but perhaps just one eye techniscope (i.e. "blue") meant to be recombined with a "red" second-eye view into color stock for an anaglyph print for exhibition.

Only source from the film I've seen in a Japanese book is that the producer (not the same person credited here, so there might be a mistake somewhere, but another known producer/director/cinematographer) "worked for two years to develop this new spectra 3D system with the help of a (single) Japanese engineer, for which more information is unknown". It was not released in Japan.

So yeah, I also have no idea, but certainly support the theory that this film could've used a "home made" single-strip over/under system, instead of the more common dual techniscope, but I don't think I have enough info available to know for sure.

[BleedOrange11]

Thank you, globalimages, for your take on the camera and film and and Japanese book source.

KOFA lists holding the "original negative" (of one eye) as their only element for Hong Kil-dong (1976). Who knows what it really is without further examination and better sources, I guess.

There seems to be crew credits missing from KOFA's database listing for Hong Kil-dong. KOFA only lists Choi In-hyun as the director and Kang Dae-jin as the producer. Further reading on blogs and interviews align with your Japanese source, saying Shin Sang-ok (신상옥) was also director/producer on the film and that he invested 50 million Korean won and 2 years in a Japanese engineer who researched the stereoscopic camera system used. Another article from KOFA says that Choi In-hyun was director, but Shin Sang-ok completed the project. They also say Choi Gil-sun aka Choe Gil-seon (최길선), a frequent collaborator with Shin Sang-ok, acted as cinematographer.

Looking at the actual photographs of the film credits, Choi Gil-sun is credited as cinematographer on image 9/13 (third symbol group). I don't see Shin Sang-ok's symbol in the photos. Not sure why he would go uncredited on the film, if true, but I guess that sort of thing is not too uncommon. The KOFA interview mentions this discrepancy as well and says they are not sure if this is a Shin Sang-ok production or not. They don't have evidence of his involvement.

[globalimages2]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Thank you, globalimages, for your take on the camera and film and and Japanese book source.

KOFA lists holding the "original negative" (of one eye) as their only element for Hong Kil-dong (1976). Who knows what it really is without further examination and better sources, I guess.

There seems to be crew credits missing from KOFA's database listing for Hong Kil-dong. KOFA only lists Choi In-hyun as the director and Kang Dae-jin as the producer. Further reading on blogs and interviews align with your Japanese source, saying Shin Sang-ok (신상옥) was also director/producer on the film and that he invested 50 million Korean won and 2 years in a Japanese engineer who researched the stereoscopic camera system used. Another article from KOFA says that Choi In-hyun was director, but Shin Sang-ok completed the project. They also say Choi Gil-sun aka Choe Gil-seon (최길선), a frequent collaborator with Shin Sang-ok, acted as cinematographer.

Looking at the actual photographs of the film credits, Choi Gil-sun is credited as cinematographer on image 9/13 (third symbol group). I don't see Shin Sang-ok's symbol in the photos. Not sure why he would go uncredited on the film, if true, but I guess that sort of thing is not too uncommon. The KOFA interview mentions this discrepancy as well and says they are not sure if this is a Shin Sang-ok production or not. They don't have evidence of his involvement.

Yeap, that's basically the same info quoted in the book, pointing at Shin Sang-ok as possibly the main driver towards this getting made in 3D, though it doesn't make a whole lot of sense not being his usual production company and his name not appearing anywhere "officially" as far as I can tell. His personal story of supposedly being abducted by North Korea and having made a "remake" for them years later blurs the story even more, but perhaps could also explain why there is little info on this particular film history.

[BleedOrange11]

True, he is also uncredited for the 1986 version! That one is considered North Korea's best movie of all time.

Apparently his production company, Shin Films, went out of business sometime before this 1976 production, and he used the name "Samyoung Films" to make this one. May have something to do with it.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

I'd be happy to be wrong. A flat version has been restored and released on 4K UHD.

Are you sure? It doesn't seem to be listed on this website.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Are you sure? It doesn't seem to be listed on this website.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Space...lu-ray/249026/
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Space...lu-ray/191333/

Some people prefer the Blu-ray for better grain. The UHD is DNRed, but supposedly has amazing HDR.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Space...lu-ray/140197/

Note to everyone again that Space Adventure Cobra is not a 3D film.

[BluBonnet]

My bad, I thought you were talking about Lady in Dream

[BleedOrange11]

Sorry for any confusion. I have been using this thread to discuss all Silver Age Korean 3D films, but the moderator removed that part from the original thread title.

From the Korean Silver Age 3D, only The Devil and the Beauty (1969) has been restored as a 2K 3D DCP, unless you want to count the USA co-productions, like Ape (Blu-ray 3D from 3DFA) and Starchaser: Legend of Orin (3D DCP but only on 2D Blu-ray). There's also the Golden Age Korean War 3D movies, Cease Fire!, actually shot in Korea, and Dragonfly Squadron, purely a Hollywood production, on Blu-ray 3D from 3DFA.

[qw0aszx]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Where?

It was broadcasted on TV last year. HD remastered version, 2D only.

https://www.twellv.co.jp/news/whatsnew/2021/55852/

EDIT: I found someone uploaded the 3D VHD source of DEAD HEAT to the youtube, though a little out of sync between the left and right eye image due to the frame rate I suppose, but I can finally get the idea how 3D looks in this OVA.