Older HD

[sleazypig]

I think Bw movies should stick to Dvd. Most are not widescreen and with poor resolution. I think the oldest you can go are early cinema scope movies.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Anyone interested in any silent and black and white hd releases .

Off the top of my head I can say I'd double-dip on Disney's Alice and/or Oswald shorts if they ever make it to BD (extremely doubtful).

[FilmmakingFiasco]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Well I was just wondering how the old color method tittles would compare, considering the early use of it.

and 4k?that really just sounds like a huge over-scan for the sake of preservation.Can film really be scanned that high withought just being a bunch of static and grain, how much higher than hd can it go?.

Scanning 35mm film in a 4k is a full resolution scan, no overscan.

[Minimejer05]

I sometimes dont bother with older HD releases...yes they look much better but not worth me buying.

[RustyK94]

Interesting to see all the very old charlie chaplin films in HD

[supersix4]

I think it would be nice for older veiwers I know my grandmother would hop on the bandwagon big time if lots of these types of movies were being released I for one would like to see how much different they'd look compared to vhs's / dvds

[rodgerse]

How old, exaclty.I don't know how all those b+w films that went for 50+ years with manual preservation could possibly be preserved enough for an hd scan.

[Kratos3]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

Scanning 35mm film in a 4k is a full resolution scan, no overscan.

Yes. This guy gets it. I was trying to say this(apparently unsuccessfully) in a previous post. The detail and resolution that can be captured on film is beyond the human eye's ability to see. If you saw the Blade Runner Final Cut you know what a 4K scan can do for a film. Chances are, most of the B&W movies most of us have seen were the result of degradation of film stock and were less than great transfers b/c they were being transferred for low-res TV or VHS. I feel that BD has the potential to show older B&W movies the way they were seen in their orginal theatrical showings. At least this is what I hope for.

But as I said before, to each his own, and I do see what you're getting at rodgerse. I too would LOVE to see some of the older color films in all their Technicolor glory. Wizard of Oz, Vertigo, Rear Window, etc. To see them in full, vibrant color, and not the washed out, faded versions we've grown up with would be amazing. See "The Searchers" reviews to see what they can do with older color films.

[BostonRoss]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Anyone interested in any silent and black and white hd releases .

I'd love to see any of Kurosawa's films, Citizen Cane, or Any old Noir flicks on BD. I mean seriously, some of the best films are in B&W. It makes me mad that people think that Blu-ray was made for stuff like ID4. Personally I'd rather see Fellini's 8 1/2 on Blu way before anything with Will Smith in it. I hope I'm not the only one.

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Anyone interested in any silent and black and white hd releases .

Absolutely!

the 1926 Ben-Hur

I'd like a box set with Lon Chaney classics inc. Phantom of the Opera, Hunchback of Notre Dame, but also more obscure classics like the ones Lon Chaney did with Tod Browning as director.

The original Show Boat which was part sound, part silent (it was made during the transition)

Some of the Buster Keaton films are still very impressive.

Abel Gance's Napoléon (BTW this film was a very impressive early experiment with widescreen)

...I could think of more....

EDIT: I must add Das Cabinet des Dr. Caligari and Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens

[rodgerse]

There must be a point in the past to wich films are simply are too old and diminished to be released on BD.What era would that be?.

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

There must be a point in the past to wich films are simply are too old and diminished to be released on BD.What era would that be?.

No such point. Blu-ray has a great potential for film restoration and preservation. Unless, of course you are talking about old nitrate negatives that are corroded beyond restoration, in which case they are lost films.

[rodgerse]

Originally Posted by Kristin Simard

No such point. Blu-ray has a great potential for film restoration and preservation. Unless, of course you are talking about old nitrate negatives that are corroded beyond restoration, in which case they are lost films.

So even early 20th century films, such as this could still be released in HD.Ohnestly, its present somewhat in any old release, but I think there'd just be too much grain and noticeable deterioration, even with the best restoration to really be watched in HD.I don't see how a film could be that well preserved for nearly a century, during most of which digital preservation wasn't available.

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

So even early 20th century films, such as this could still be released in HD.Ohnestly, its present somewhat in any old release, but I think there'd just be too much grain and noticeable deterioration, even with the best restoration to really be watched in HD.I don't see how a film could be that well preserved for nearly a century, during most of which digital preservation wasn't available.

It depends on what you want. If the object is to preserve the film digitally (as all film stock, color dyes, etc. deteriorate with age) it may not result in the High-Def experience of recent releases, but it would optimize the restoration. Whether you want to watch it or not, especially if you are used to seeing a grainless image, is another matter entirely. High definition restoration can do a lot to improve the PQ of old films and show them at their best, even if the image isn't perfect. Even if the potential resolution of digital is greater than the grain of the film, this enables reconstruction of the image. Some purists may argue that the grain, latitude etc. shouldn't be tampered with for historical reasons, others may say that it should be improved as much as possible, but both options are possible on a Blu-ray disc. All of these films, even The Great Train Robbery were originally shown on screens larger than most home HDTV screens.

[Kratos3]

I don't get people's obsession with grain. Close Encounters and 300 have grain, and that's the way the filmmaker intended it as an artistic choice. Speilberg approved the CE3K transfer. It has noticable grain, as does 300. Look at Casino Royale. The B&W sequence at the beginning is grainy to give the scene a gritty feel. I wonder if some people are confusing film grain with compression artifacts.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by sleazypig

I think Bw movies should stick to Dvd. Most are not widescreen and with poor resolution. I think the oldest you can go are early cinema scope movies.

As I've mentioned elswewhere, B/W Academy ratio movies (1.37) have taller negatives than for example Lord of the Rings (15.24 mm vs 10 mm)

Just look at 20 Million Miles To Earth in b/w and imagine a negative 33% taller than that

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I don't get people's obsession with grain. Close Encounters and 300 have grain, and that's the way the filmmaker intended it as an artistic choice. Speilberg approved the CE3K transfer. It has noticable grain, as does 300. Look at Casino Royale. The B&W sequence at the beginning is grainy to give the scene a gritty feel. I wonder if some people are confusing film grain with compression artifacts.

That's very possible IMHO, I've thought the same thing. It's not unusual to hear grain and compression artefacts mentioned as if they're the same thing.

Bring on ALL the classics as far as I'm concerned. Film is film, people.
Let's see all films restored and preserved for future enjoyment.

[T-Town Oil]

what about raging bull? now that would be a b&w film i would be all over

[Kristin Simard]

Grain isn't the only factor with very old films. The optics used in old cameras (1900's) are a "lightyear" away from those used today (2000's).

However with digital, it is possible to make a film sharper than it ever was originally. Some people may argue that this shouldn't be done, but it is possible.

In all this I am just giving my opinion. I am not an archivist nor restorationist. There is a member of this forum, Robert Harris, who is at the top of the field of film restoration. He would be the one to give the best appraisal of all this.

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

As I've mentioned elswewhere, B/W Academy ratio movies (1.37) have taller negatives than for example Lord of the Rings (15.24 mm vs 10 mm)

Just look at 20 Million Miles To Earth in b/w and imagine a negative 33% taller than that

And I mentioned Abel Gance's Napoléon on this thread earlier, an early B & W experiment with a widescreen format using three screens.

[Deciazulado]