4K UHD: Fewer subtitles than on regular Blu-ray? Why?

[Hedrox]

Fox were region locking their discs because some territories were getting it earlier and they didn't want other regions to be able to get a hold of the disc ahead of time(the horror!); this is also why they would only list the native language and the country's dub on the back cover, despite the disc clearly having more.
And of course in cases where they only had the rights to a specific region.

[Geoff D]

Eh, it didn't matter if some discs were day and date with other countries, Fox were region locking their US Blus as a matter of course for years, well into the BD era. So I find it mildly amusing - only mildly, mind you - that they're now regarded as some bastion of region free Fitz Hall practices. As for not putting all the languages on the back, this is the same studio that STILL to this day puts the sped up PAL running times on their UK UHDs so maybe they're not as devious as might first seem.

[Mocorongo]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Hi,

Based on my observations, it seems like 4K UHD Blu-ray releases often have subtitles in fewer languages than regular Blu-ray releases. Some even don't have regular English subtitles, instead only English SDH or none at all.

Now I just wonder if there is any logic to this? If anything the UHD Blu-rays ought to have room for more subtitles.

Lack of subtitles especially for bonus contents is a problem I noticed ever since the first DVD came out, so it's going on for decades. Not a new issue that started to happen with 4K discs. Sadly no one seems to care.

There's room to include 300 subtitles for each video... if that's what they wanted. So this argument is flawed.

Also not due to licensing issues.

Including a subtitle having the same language from the movie will certainly not be as complicated as using laserdisc material owned by another company, and in the end will help the hearing impared and people that want to understand the entire movie (sometimes you can't grasp 100% of what is said, and/or the audio is not clear).

There are only two possibilities: laziness and costs involved with adding this. You need to figure out the latter to answer that question.

Without a doubt it's not an easy task to create a subtitle from scratch. If a translation is required/involved, then things will be complicated (except of course if this was already done, which is the case for most movies).

There are also some extra features that (and only now I noticed this) may be more difficult to include a subtitle than others, like audio commentaries (for commentaries the problem is that sometimes 2 or 3 people speak at the same time).

This has to be the only bonus content that is never subtitled for all distributors and in 99% of the cases.

"Making ofs", deleted scenes, interviews, whatever, are subtitled in every language, never audio commentaries. Funny thing is that commentaries in U.S. releases sometimes have asian subtitles (Home Alone-1990 had spanish only), never english.

In the 2000's Universal Pictures and Paramount used to put subtitles for them in their DVDs (Superman: The Movie first disc, released in 2000, had it, Gone with the Wind * too), while others like Sony sometimes didn't include any subtitle for ALL bonus contents. Warner was also criticized for this.

* EDIT (correction): When I mentioned GWTW I was talking about the 4 disc-boxset (DVD) from Warner. Then in subsequent releases they didn't include any subtitle for it (audio commentary with historian Rudy Behlmer), despite all other extra features having them. Same for Superman: THE MOVIE (only had subtitles for the Donner track from the Director's Cut (2000 DVD release), then they dropped for the re-releases).

These days a few releases from companies like Arrow don't include any subtitle for a single bonus content. I know some movies don't have them too, even so this doesn't happen as often.

******
One thing I managed to do was to upload the entire video to Youtube and wait a few hours for automated captions to be created. Then I download the file (SBV) and convert to SRT.

The video is blocked after your upload, of course, yet you are not hit with a copyright strike, it's only unavailable for public viewing (so only available to you). Of course I advise to remove from your account once you get what you want.

Sure this subtitle file created by Youtube has errors, even so it's accurate for most part. And we can do this for free. When I saw them I asked myself: "why couldn't they edit the end result (to fix errors) and create their own"?

I did this for some bonus contents I have here, from discs that didn't include any subtitle.

English is not my native language and I am capable of understanding 90% of what's said, still it's discouraging to sit and watch a content with no subtitle at all. I always feel like I may be misunderstanding the words uttered in a video.

With subtitles at least I can be sure there's nothing wrong.

******
Another complaint I have is when they only include english HoH for the movie. This should always be an alternative, not the one and only subtitle track.

[geitos82]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Hi,

Based on my observations, it seems like 4K UHD Blu-ray releases often have subtitles in fewer languages than regular Blu-ray releases. Some even don't have regular English subtitles, instead only English SDH or none at all.

Now I just wonder if there is any logic to this? If anything the UHD Blu-rays ought to have room for more subtitles.

Personally, I find this highly annoying. It has put me off buying several UHD Blu-ray releases.

So is there any logic to this? Not having a wide selection of subtitles on the UHD Blu-ray discs likely means less sales in a lot of countries. Is it really that expensive to add more subtitles? Why not just add the subtitles from the existing Blu-ray discs to the UHD Blu-ray discs? Is that more expensive than the effect of having less UHD Blu-rays sold in a lot of countries? Seems strange to me.

I agree with that. My country Greece has the rights to the films. But because sales at 4UHD and bluray are low they do not release movie disks 4kuhd and bluray.
I try to find movies in globe.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Hi,

Based on my observations, it seems like 4K UHD Blu-ray releases often have subtitles in fewer languages than regular Blu-ray releases. Some even don't have regular English subtitles, instead only English SDH or none at all.

Now I just wonder if there is any logic to this? If anything the UHD Blu-rays ought to have room for more subtitles.

Personally, I find this highly annoying. It has put me off buying several UHD Blu-ray releases.

So is there any logic to this? Not having a wide selection of subtitles on the UHD Blu-ray discs likely means less sales in a lot of countries. Is it really that expensive to add more subtitles? Why not just add the subtitles from the existing Blu-ray discs to the UHD Blu-ray discs? Is that more expensive than the effect of having less UHD Blu-rays sold in a lot of countries? Seems strange to me.

It depends on the studio. I just watched Days of Thunder 4K and there was some 15 odd subtitles to pick from even for the loading menu. Paramount discs at least have many subs to pick from, even dubs (although personally I don't see the need for those at all, just stick with the original language in its OG mix and perhaps a 5.1 or Atmos track remix and be done with it). I saw a ton of subs and even dubs for Clear and Present Danger 4K in the Jack Ryan set that I have been slowly going through.

On the other hand, Pitch Black had English SDH and that's it. Others here can provide a lot more info than I can but a lot of it is due to licensing.

Japanese BDs for example often had no English subs at all rendering them useless for importation to the States as I don't read/speak Japanese and I imagine that's to prevent the exact thing that I am doing or simply because the distributor doesn't see a need to have them. Hard Boiled's JPN release had no English subs. It's a Cantonese soundtrack so the only thing they'd really need for the home market would be Japanese subs.

[I KEEL YOU]

It seems that formats just get progressively less user-friendly. During the days of DVD, you could turn off your player and the next time you turned it on, the movie would continue right where you stopped watching it. Every time. Now you have to sit through all kinds of crap and it always starts at the main menu where you have to play the movie from the start.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

It depends on the studio. I just watched Days of Thunder 4K and there was some 15 odd subtitles to pick from even for the loading menu. Paramount discs at least have many subs to pick from, even dubs (although personally I don't see the need for those at all, just stick with the original language in its OG mix and perhaps a 5.1 or Atmos track remix and be done with it). I saw a ton of subs and even dubs for Clear and Present Danger 4K in the Jack Ryan set that I have been slowly going through.

On the other hand, Pitch Black had English SDH and that's it. Others here can provide a lot more info than I can but a lot of it is due to licensing.

Japanese BDs for example often had no English subs at all rendering them useless for importation to the States as I don't read/speak Japanese and I imagine that's to prevent the exact thing that I am doing or simply because the distributor doesn't see a need to have them. Hard Boiled's JPN release had no English subs. It's a Cantonese soundtrack so the only thing they'd really need for the home market would be Japanese subs.

...because Pitch Black was released by an indie whose license covered the US and UK only. So no extra languages on Arrow's UHD, just as I wouldn't expect any of their product - or that of any indie, even the almighty Criterion - to be laden with loads of extra languages. Blue Underground's stuff is the exception because Bill Lustig owns the worldwide rights to many of those flicks so he's happy to make them 'one size' discs. And as we're seeing the indie licensing model explode in popularity then unfortunately it means more localised discs with very few alternative language options, if at all.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

It seems that formats just get progressively less user-friendly. During the days of DVD, you could turn off your player and the next time you turned it on, the movie would continue right where you stopped watching it. Every time. Now you have to sit through all kinds of crap and it always starts at the main menu where you have to play the movie from the start.

Always? No. Discs from Fox, Disnee, Universal, Sony, Lionsgate and Warners usually have a disc-led resume function (though you may need some persistent memory like a USB stick plugged into the player), Paramount are the odd ones out. Resume features are harder to find on indie discs (just for ease of authoring) but Criterion have used it for a while now.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Always? No. Discs from Fox, Disnee, Universal, Sony, Lionsgate and Warners usually have a disc-led resume function (though you may need some persistent memory like a USB stick plugged into the player), Paramount are the odd ones out. Resume features are harder to find on indie discs (just for ease of authoring) but Criterion have used it for a while now.

Interesting. Just wonder how come not all discs have resume feature? Sounds like a good thing. Is it e.g. complicated to add to the disc, or do you have to pay some Blu-ray licensing cost to include it? Otherwise I don't see why they don't automatically add this feature on all discs.

Even better would be if the Blu-ray player itself could have the "resume logic". Then it would work for all discs automatically.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Always? No. Discs from Fox, Disnee, Universal, Sony, Lionsgate and Warners usually have a disc-led resume function (though you may need some persistent memory like a USB stick plugged into the player), Paramount are the odd ones out. Resume features are harder to find on indie discs (just for ease of authoring) but Criterion have used it for a while now.

My Studio Canal UHDs definitely don't resume and I have to watch their menus every damn time. In fact, I have to eject the tray and re-insert it into the player for the disc to load at all. It might be due to my player, but it doesn't require this with other UHDs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

My Studio Canal UHDs definitely don't resume and I have to watch their menus every damn time. In fact, I have to eject the tray and re-insert it into the player for the disc to load at all. It might be due to my player, but it doesn't require this with other UHDs.

That's very true about StudioCanal discs. Thankfully not all discs are SC discs. As for getting it to load at all, you don't have a Samsung player by any chance?

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...because Pitch Black was released by an indie whose license covered the US and UK only. So no extra languages on Arrow's UHD, just as I wouldn't expect any of their product - or that of any indie, even the almighty Criterion - to be laden with loads of extra languages. Blue Underground's stuff is the exception because Bill Lustig owns the worldwide rights to many of those flicks so he's happy to make them 'one size' discs. And as we're seeing the indie licensing model explode in popularity then unfortunately it means more localised discs with very few alternative language options, if at all.

Gotcha, that makes sense.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's very true about StudioCanal discs. Thankfully not all discs are SC discs. As for getting it to load at all, you don't have a Samsung player by any chance?

No, a Panasonic. It makes no sense that I have to eject the tray and put it back into the player for it to load the disc.

Hopefully, the PS5 won't have this problem.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

No, a Panasonic. It makes no sense that I have to eject the tray and put it back into the player for it to load the disc.

Hopefully, the PS5 won't have this problem.

That's very weird. Got no problems with any SC discs playing first time on my Panasonic.

[PanaPlasma]

All Disney movies are owned worldwide by Disney, no licensing to other companies.

But none of them has e.g. dutch subtitles!

Some markets might be small, but they could add more subtitles to e.g. the uk or us release.

It's really frustrating. Because you live in a smaller area you're ignored?

[-shadow-]

Don't get me started on Disney and their lack of languages on any disc. Why are they being so incredibly difficult about including a bunch of languages on a single release in general? And that's not even mentioning the hilarious 4K Star Wars releases that have Dutch text on the cover, the Dutch rating on the cover, have Dutch menu's on the disc... But no Dutch subs whatsoever... Oh and they didn't even release them here, they released them in bloody Belgium, so ever 4k version I did come across was as an import...

Not to say that I need the subs, but still...

[Dark City Denizen]

Most highly-developed countries, where the luxury incomes which afford large home media sales, are either native English-speaking or have populations fluent in English as a second language (Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands etc). Probably a factor.

[Fjodor2000]

They may understand English very well but not necessarily to such a degree that they understand all weird dialects, slang words, etc. Also voices can sometimes be unintelligible or hard to hear for example due to audio effects. Subtitles help in all these cases.

Even if you understand 98 percent of all that's spoken in a movie, missing 2 percent can be crucial and make it hard to follow the story. For these reasons I often watch with subtitles on even in my own native language too.

[Dark City Denizen]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

They may understand English very well but not necessarily to such a degree that they understand all weird dialects, slang words, etc. Also voices can sometimes be unintelligible or hard to hear for example due to audio effects. Subtitles help in all these cases.

Even if you understand 98 percent of all that's spoken in a movie, missing 2 percent can be crucial and make it hard to follow the story. For these reasons I often watch with subtitles on even in my own native language too.

Totally get that, agree. Just positing a theory as to why.

[PanaPlasma]

Originally Posted by -shadow-

Don't get me started on Disney and their lack of languages on any disc. Why are they being so incredibly difficult about including a bunch of languages on a single release in general? And that's not even mentioning the hilarious 4K Star Wars releases that have Dutch text on the cover, the Dutch rating on the cover, have Dutch menu's on the disc... But no Dutch subs whatsoever... Oh and they didn't even release them here, they released them in bloody Belgium, so ever 4k version I did come across was as an import...

Not to say that I need the subs, but still...

I'm not aware of this?

Discs from Belgium / Netherlands have smaller age ratings on their cover compared to UK, US & Germany.
Or no ratings at all...

Our market is completely ignored for blu-ray or uhd releases. Mediocre dvd's is often the only thing we get.
And recently more and more dvd-releases got cancelled.
Often we got ignored for streaming and legal downloads as well. Many titles are OOP because majority of local distributors have gone bankrupt.

Blu-ray or 4K has never been promoted which resulted in bad sales, so they started cancelling blu-ray's in favor of dvd's.

Same goes for France.... the very few supermarkets that are still offering physical media have replaced blu-ray's for dvd's.

At some point Carrefour France had a large blu-ray section but after some time they had to remove them... back to 95% dvd - 5% blu-ray.

A guy at Mediamarkt Belgium (biggest store in belgium for blu-ray) told me, that they couldn't get rid of blu-ray's. At some point they offered the blu-ray at 50% of the price of the dvd. And 90% of the customers still bought the dvd.

Many of those who bought the blu-ray ... returned it because it wouldn't play on a dvd player.

Most people never heard of blu-ray and don't know it wouldn't play on standard dvd players.

It's not because lack of finances, as dutch speaking part of Belgium + Netherlands are amongst the wealthiest regions in Europe.