Best Streaming Provider for 4K VIDEO Quality?

[Mr. Joshua]

When will my E9 LG OLED TV get AppleTV App on my TV so I don't have to use that darn AppleTV 4K box anymore? Come on LG and Apple get with it. You wasted the AppleTV App on Samsung TVs that can't even do Dolby Vision...

[pghflyer]

Definitely adding as much from your test to the main post as I can. I have definitely learned a lot in the last 24 hours - honestly, I didn't even know MA had an app and their own streaming!!

[avs commenter]

Vudu really fell behind didn’t they

[pghflyer]

He did all the testing on Apple TV, I have never used any product in that ecosystem so just used the terms Apple TV/ iTunes synonymously, perhaps Apple TV is the right product name. My bad, updated main post.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

This is fantastic work.

Quick question, did you look into Apple TV+’s numbers? Word is that it’s actually the highest of them all.

Still, not even remotely surprised to see Movies Anywhere and iTunes at the top.

Originally Posted by pghflyer

He did all the testing on Apple TV, I have never used any product in that ecosystem so just used the terms Apple TV/ iTunes synonymously, perhaps Apple TV is the right product name. My bad, updated main post.

All these similar terms and services are making it hard to discuss this lol. I think he meant Apple TV+ like their streaming service with exclusive content (The Morning Show, See, Dickinson, etc.).

I haven’t checked out those bitrates yet myself but yeah, word is the peaks go up as high as the low 40s Mb/s. I believe I read See had the highest peak. And most, if not all, have Atmos.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by samlop10

All these similar terms and services are making it hard to discuss this lol. I think he meant Apple TV+ like their streaming service with exclusive content (The Morning Show, See, Dickinson, etc.).

I haven’t checked out those bitrates yet myself but yeah, word is the peaks go up as high as the low 40s Mb/s. I believe I read See had the highest peak. And most, if not all, have Atmos.

Sorry. Should’ve been clearer.

Yeah, I meant Apple’s new streaming service, not their iTunes Movies. And yes, the word is that their original shows are hitting high bitrates with their 4K Dolby Vision streams....

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Sorry. Should’ve been clearer.

Yeah, I meant Apple’s new streaming service, not their iTunes Movies. And yes, the word is that their original shows are hitting high bitrates with their 4K Dolby Vision streams....

I watched the first episode of Dickinson, The Morning Show, and See, and the quality was pretty impressive given its streaming. I was checking the bitrates and See does peak at 41 Mb/s. I didn’t see any banding, only mild macroblocking in bright objects and mild macroblocking around fine details. But overall they looked pretty good. The high production values really comes through nicely, they all have impressive cinematography and visuals.

The Dolby Atmos mixes of The Morning Show and See were great and commendable for their respective genres. The opening credits of See are pure demo material, and I really enjoyed how much emphasis they put on sound given all the main characters are blind. The Morning Show showed excellent surround effects with bustling from a protest, a busy morning show office, and the music used the height layer plenty. Voices come through impressively but naturally through the surrounds whenever a character spoke behind or to the side. See was more impressive given the genre, with the characters relying solely on sounds. Perhaps just as impressive as the opening credits is a fight, with the tribes basing their actions around sound cues, with the bustling of branches, the tension of straining of ropes, and rocks making them switch tactics as the fight progresses. It’s both action-y and subtle somehow. The height layer comes on nicely with rain, lighting, and birds flying, as well as the score. It’s obvious without pulling you out of the story. Apple does not seem afraid to use the whole capabilities of Atmos and I commend them for that.

As far as story quality goes, both See and The Morning Show definitely have potential. Dickinson was a bit ‘meh’ tbh. Hailee Steinfield is very good as always, and overall it’s not bad but I don’t enjoy watching biographies so that was already a very high mountain for the show to climb for me. The modern twist on the genre was interesting but not enough for me to keep watching it.

The Morning Show has a very layered critique on the current political climate, while using it wisely for the plot and showing different points of view from the different main characters. It was actually very compelling, and since we see how it directly affects the characters (playing very naturally within the story), I did not mind the political themes. I’ll probably definitely keep watching it. Acting is top-notch but no surprise there given the actors.

See was also very good. I liked the dystopian setting and how much the culture changed due to the blindness. There’s plenty of suspense and everyone’s acting is good, even the not-so-known actors. This one is perhaps the one with the most production value, with cinema-levels of visuals.

Overall, it felt HBO-y to me in a good way, but thankfully with a much better streaming platform and impressive technical qualities for both video and audio. Hopefully these come out on blu-ray at some point, two of them have potential to be great shows to add to one’s collection with demo-quality picture and sound. I’ll try to checkout For All Mankind later.


Edit: I should mention that the peaks for both The Morning Show and Dickinson were both 32 Mb/s same as with the movies so I would not change the peak overall for iTunes since the 41 Mb/s for See was more of an exception rather than a rule.

[samlop10]

@pghflyer FYI I’d use the ‘average’ that is after the ‘indicated bitrate peak’ value in the pictures. The other average (above the peak) I believe, is the average up to the point of where the movie is currently at, not the average for the whole movie. On the other hand, the average next to the ‘indicated peak value’ is for the whole movie. I know it’s a bit confusing since it has two average values but it makes sense the beginning of Aquaman has a higher average since the storm sequence in the beginning (with the dad) would need a higher bitrate to lower compression artifacts since it has both, a bunch of dark highlights and a bunch of tricky fine detail.

[pghflyer]

I wasn't aware anyone allowed 4K downloads of digital copies, only options I have seen max out at HD.

[Kizzo]

Great thread. Very helpful.

I purchased Hobbs and Shaw on iTunes during Black Friday. I watched the 4K stream last night and it looked fantastic. Not surprised that iTunes has the best quality.

[cleeve]

Thank you for this! Amazing information, and clears up a ton of misinformation that people spout across the internet.

[novoice2008]

I too would like to say thanks for putting this info together from an unbiased position. So many times information gets skewed due to, as an example, an employee of one of these retailers responds to a post and the response isn't completely factual, as the employee is defending the employer. Completely understandable, except when it hasn't been disclosed the person responding is an employee of the retailer being discussed.

Thanks again for the info in this thread. Good stuff!

[meremortal]

These kinds of threads can be mildly depressing. From those numbers, it appears on the surface at least that MA and iTunes are 'superior' in a/v over Vudu. And Vudu is pretty much my preferred platform because of familiarity, interface, and the md2d promotion. Haven't used iTunes in years and close to half of my movies on Vudu won't transfer to MA because the studios haven't joined MA. So it's kind of annoying if quality is compromised between streaming providers compared to disc where everyone's getting the same quality of product.

Is there a similar list for comparing averages with 1080p content such as iTunes HD and Vudu HDX?

[novoice2008]

[QUOTE=meremortal;17203792]These kinds of threads can be mildly depressing.

Well, it can be depressing, but on the flip side, it is very educational and can minimize the hits you can take as you and me and everyone else tries to navigate the 4K digital world. I have to agree though it can be challenging at times. And the new guys says "What's the big deal? I buy a 4K disc and redeem the digital to get 4K in my library...right?" Uh, maybe.

[pghflyer]

Yeah all the info gathered here has really changed where I watch things. Plus I still have to reference the 4K sheet for redemptions. And all that just assumes I have all my equipment setup correctly. Friggin full time job trying to have the best AV experience with a title. Seriously, it is no wonder some people are still rocking the DVD player and tube TV.

[meremortal]

Appreciate all the work done for 4k. Already mentioned it in a post above, but I'd certainly be curious in the differences for 1080p since the overwhelming bulk of content I've purchased is in 1080p. Going forward I'll probably have to consider using iTunes since there are free 4k upgrades and some exclusive content. Been too used for Vudu but the lower 4k bitrates and lack of upgrades is kind of worrying.

[pghflyer]

I suppose it isn't a 100% given, but I find it hard to imagine why I would expect different results for HD quality. I was previously a dedicated VUDU customer/ buyer so totally in your boat, but just can't imagine why they would treat HD better than 4K. I am not fully up on how all the streaming is accomplished but I bet some of it is based on the different compression algorithms used by these companies.

[cpr3584]

I posted this in another thread but wanted to see what you guys think.
I know the bitrate is a lot higher on Apple vs Vudu, but i can't see any difference on my 65 inch 4k TV. Is it the audio that comes in at a higher fidelity? It cant be the video, I haven't noticed any difference in PQ between Apple and Vudu

[samlop10]

I might try doing a similar test for HD quality. It might be interesting to see if has improved at all since 4K came out or if the streaming services kept it the same.

[meremortal]

Originally Posted by samlop10

I might try doing a similar test for HD quality. It might be interesting to see if has improved at all since 4K came out or if the streaming services kept it the same.

This would be really helpful to a lot of folks and much appreciated.