007 Movie Tournament Game Match 16

[strayanalog]

From Russia With Love is well-crafted machine, but Goldfinger found all the formula for the Bond movies. So... Goldfinger.

[stardragon9]

Wow! Now this is a tough one. I love both movies equally and for different reasons. From Russia With Love is THE quintessential cold war spy thriller which keeps you on the edge of your seat until the end. But Goldfinger established the Bond formula with 60s swagger and cool. I think I will have to go with From Russia With Love (very very close though).

[jawsfan1975]

This was the toughest choice yet, but I went with Goldfinger.

[HenriDeadMort]

Originally Posted by stardragon9

From Russia With Love is THE quintessential cold war spy thriller which keeps you on the edge of your seat until the end.

Um, what?
what about The Living Daylights?

[stardragon9]

Originally Posted by HenriDeadMort

Um, what?
what about The Living Daylights?

The Living Daylights was good, but it was nowhere as good as From Russia With Love.

[HenriDeadMort]

Originally Posted by stardragon9

it was nowhere as good as From Russia With Love.

explain

[RCRochester]

I really enjoy the Living Daylights but I agree that's nowhere close to being a quintessential cold war spy thriller... the thing is, I don't think From Russia With Love is either. Oh, in the context of the Bond series it's the closest to an actual spy movie but it's still "spy-fi" with the fictional terrorist group SPECTRE, and action movie set-pieces like the speedboat chase and the gypsy camp fight.

For me, a quintessential cold war spy thriller would be something like The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, or even The Ipcress File.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I really enjoy the Living Daylights but I agree that's nowhere close to being a quintessential cold war spy thriller... the thing is, I don't think From Russia With Love is either. Oh, in the context of the Bond series it's the closest to an actual spy movie but it's still "spy-fi" with the fictional terrorist group SPECTRE, and action movie set-pieces like the speedboat chase and the gypsy camp fight.

For me, a quintessential cold war spy thriller would be something like The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, or even The Ipcress File.

Great choice!

[HenriDeadMort]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Oh, in the context of the Bond series it's the closest to an actual spy movie but it's still "spy-fi" with the fictional terrorist group SPECTRE, and action movie set-pieces like the speedboat chase and the gypsy camp fight.

Well yeah, but The Living Daylights takes those elements and makes it better.
Fictional terrorist group? Check
Speedboat chase? Airplane chase is way better
Gypsy camp fight? Airplane base fight between Mujahidden (no idea how to spell that) and the russians is also better

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

The film mostly taking place in America is a big flaw. For some reason, whenever Bond comes to America, it just becomes a bit stale. Perhaps it was because of Guy Hamilton, who directed Goldfinger, Live and Let Die, and Diamonds are Forever, all of which largely take place in America. Bond should be exotic and though I'm an American, I can admit, America is not exactly exotic.

The producers largely wasted American locations like Las Vegas and San Francisco in future films but I think Goldfinger uses them quite well. The cold opening in Goldfinger feels straight out of FRWL (revealing the white tux after removing the wetsuit and then nonchalantly taking a drag during the explosion are just PERFECT btw) but it's immediately after the credits, which incidentally are incredible and set the standard for the rest of the series, that the franchise really comes into its own. The music and camera work just radiate the sixties at their most hopeful and you can't help but want to go back to that time and place and be there too:

Goldfinger - Welcome to Miami beach...! - YouTube

The later scenes in Kentucky are indeed quite dreary looking from today's perspective but you have to bear in mind that highways and sprawl represented the future when Goldfinger was released. Once again the film perfectly captured the zeitgeist. The interlude in Switzerland is beautifully shot as well and you really feel like you're on the mountain with Bond as he's being (accidentally) shot at. Most importantly the globetrotting feels organic just as it did in Dr. No and FRWL.

[stardragon9]

Originally Posted by HenriDeadMort

Well yeah, but The Living Daylights takes those elements and makes it better.
Fictional terrorist group? Check
Speedboat chase? Airplane chase is way better
Gypsy camp fight? Airplane base fight between Mujahidden (no idea how to spell that) and the russians is also better

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I really enjoy the Living Daylights but I agree that's nowhere close to being a quintessential cold war spy thriller... the thing is, I don't think From Russia With Love is either. Oh, in the context of the Bond series it's the closest to an actual spy movie but it's still "spy-fi" with the fictional terrorist group SPECTRE, and action movie set-pieces like the speedboat chase and the gypsy camp fight.

For me, a quintessential cold war spy thriller would be something like The Spy Who Came In From The Cold, or even The Ipcress File.

Fair enough.

[mulscul]

Originally Posted by stardragon9

The Living Daylights was good, but it was nowhere as good as From Russia With Love.

Its Tim Daltons "from russia"

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by HenriDeadMort

Well yeah, but The Living Daylights takes those elements and makes it better.
Fictional terrorist group? Check
Speedboat chase? Airplane chase is way better
Gypsy camp fight? Airplane base fight between Mujahidden (no idea how to spell that) and the russians is also better

WE GET IT!! You love The Living Daylights... but it's not typically held in the same high regard as you do! Get used to disappointment-- I'm going to have some today when Goldfinger (my favorite) most likely loses.... and then I have the pleasure of looking forward to CASINO ROYALE winning it all as it does every time

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by HenriDeadMort

Well yeah, but The Living Daylights takes those elements and makes it better.
Fictional terrorist group? Check
Speedboat chase? Airplane chase is way better
Gypsy camp fight? Airplane base fight between Mujahidden (no idea how to spell that) and the russians is also better

Those are all action movie elements though, they don’t back up your claim that TLD is a quintessential cold war spy movie. The sequence depicting Koskov’s defection certainly is one of the best “spy moments” in the entire series but that’s just a small portion of the film.

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

The producers largely wasted American locations like Las Vegas and San Francisco in future films but I think Goldfinger uses them quite well. The cold opening in Goldfinger feels straight out of FRWL (revealing the white tux after removing the wetsuit and then nonchalantly taking a drag during the explosion are just PERFECT btw) but it's immediately after the credits, which incidentally are incredible and set the standard for the rest of the series, that the franchise really comes into its own. The music and camera work just radiate the sixties at their most hopeful and you can't help but want to go back to that time and place and be there too:

Goldfinger - Welcome to Miami beach...! - YouTube


The later scenes in Kentucky are indeed quite dreary looking from today's perspective but you have to bear in mind that highways and sprawl represented the future when Goldfinger was released. Once again the film perfectly captured the zeitgeist. The interlude in Switzerland is beautifully shot as well and you really feel like you're on the mountain with Bond as he's being (accidentally) shot at. Most importantly the globetrotting feels organic just as it did in Dr. No and FRWL.

I think that Las Vegas was used quite well in DAF, but I agree that San Francisco was wasted in AVTAK considering how many other movies make such great use of the city.

There were no scenes in Goldfinger that were actually filmed in Kentucky, other than a couple flybys of the real Fort Knox, it was mostly just England with a couple shots with Cec Linder in Miami (outside a KFC to make you think they’re in Kentucky).

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

There were no scenes in Goldfinger that were actually filmed in Kentucky, other than a couple flybys of the real Fort Knox, it was mostly just England with a couple shots with Cec Linder in Miami (outside a KFC to make you think they’re in Kentucky).

Yes, you can tell they play fast and loose with some locations in Goldfinger. Still, a good portion of the film is at least nominally set in American sprawl and that was clearly by design.

Btw, I was inspired to watch Goldfinger again tonight and good lord the sets are spectacular. Just another way Goldfinger established the template for the rest of the series.

[Lordy]

Let's face it, this was a brutal 'Sophie's Choice' match-up. How do you vote against From Russia with Love, or Goldfinger? Sacrilege!! Heresy!! I love them both dearly and wouldn't want to be without either. Together they represent the peak of the Connery era and, perhaps, the entire canon. Now, I completely understand that it is Goldfinger that vaulted the 007 films into the stratosphere and served as the template for many James Bond films to follow. However, it is on the strength of From Russia's story line, and it's refusal to rely on gadgetry, a reliance which was introduced in Goldfinger, that makes it a superior film, ever so slightly. From Russia with Love gets my very painful vote.

R.I.P. Honor Blackman

One final note: Either one of these films, whichever comes out on top will trounce Goldeneye. To put From Russia with Love and Goldfinger on the same side of the bracket, in an opening match no less, is pure folly. It could easily be argued that both of these films are #1 seeds and I maintain the entire bracket is flawed. So there, I said it.

[HenriDeadMort]

DAMN! a draw

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by HenriDeadMort

DAMN! a draw

A fitting result really.

Next person who hasn’t voted yet casts a vote in their post to break the tie?

[scifisuperfan]

This means they are both eliminated!!! Because nobody can choose between a Connery movie. There is no acting so its about taste and will always end in a draw or close.

[Damon1281]

The Connery films are the only ones that matter. HenriDead's hatred is why these two were pitted against each other when they should have met in the winner's final.