Marvel's Thor: Fantasy or Science Fiction?

[Erzengel]

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by kylor

Oh, excuse me. I didn't know you were an expert. All I know is, they are not from this planet.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Oh, excuse me. I didn't know you were an expert. All I know is, they are not from this planet.

If you really don't know the difference between aliens and gods, it's simple. Aliens are more sci-fi (or improbable), and gods are more fantasy mythological (you could say impossible). This is talking about real life, not movies.

Aliens can possibly exist in civilizations on other planets within our universe, even though we haven't truly seen one, there has been many videos and stories covering this and people claim to have had their own experiences with aliens in our current plane of reality/existence.

Gods tend not to exist on our plane of reality/existence, like most of your posts, lmao. People also have their share of claims of experiences with god and heaven, but that is not within our plane of reality/existence i.e. it cannot be seen with the naked eye/while conscious for the most part.

You don't have to be an expert to know this stuff, lol.

[DarkEco910]

Well, this thread was a complete waste of time...

It's roughly 99.9% fantasy. There.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

I'm confused. Okay, how do you guys differentiate "fantasy" and "sci-fi"? Don't tell me you are labeling this as "fantasy" just because, you know, Norse mythology and whatnot. I put "Marvel" in the title for a reason. It's fine if y'all think this is "fantasy", I just need a stronger argument from someone in order to make sense out of this. The Lord of the Rings is fantasy and Man of Steel is sci-fi, so where does Thor fall closer to?

At best, it's space opera like Star Wars, which means it's basically fantasy.

I tend to consider "sci-fi" as stuff that has some actual basis in science. I know the Thor movies pay lip service to weather phenomena or whatever it is Jane/Dary/Erik are studying, but there's nothing scientific about the a God running around on Earth with a magic boomerang hammer.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

At best, it's space opera like Star Wars, which means it's basically fantasy.

I tend to consider "sci-fi" as stuff that has some actual basis in science. I know the Thor movies pay lip service to weather phenomena or whatever it is Jane/Dary/Erik are studying, but there's nothing scientific about the a God running around on Earth with a magic boomerang hammer.

Of course not. Which is why it makes more sense that he is an alien instead. Thor is not even a god. He comes off that way because he eats some kinda fruit or something.

[Bugg]

[kylor]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

Of course not. Which is why it makes more sense that he is an alien instead. Thor is not even a god. He comes off that way because he eats some kinda fruit or something.

Since there's no scientific explaination of a god running around with a boomerang hammer, it makes more sense that Thor is a Fantasy movie which covers these impossible odds, and not Sci-fi which would require SOME level of improbable mumbo jumbo with theoretical unproven scientific facts to explain it. After all, he comes from a mythological place that is in another plane of existence/reality from our own. Aliens are usually from planets from our own plane of reality/existence within our universe.

It really is that simple.

Originally Posted by Bugg

[Show spoiler]

I know exactly how you feel Bugg. I think I'm all CyberpunkCentral'ed out for today. Definitely lost some iQ points because of him. In the end the poll results are enough to show how deluded this has become.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by kylor

Since there's no scientific explaination of a god running around with a boomerang hammer, it makes more sense that Thor is a Fantasy movie which covers these impossible odds, and not Sci-fi which would require SOME level of improbable mumbo jumbo with theoretical unproven scientific facts to explain it. After all, he comes from a mythological place that is in another plane of existence/reality from our own. Aliens are usually from planets from our own plane of reality/existence within our universe.

It really is that simple.



I know exactly how you feel Bugg. I think I'm all CyberpunkCentral'ed out for today. Definitely lost some iQ points because of him. In the end the poll results are enough to show how deluded this has become.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

[Show spoiler]

That's the comic book version of Thor, not the movie version which this thread is about. Talk about reaching.

In real life, Thor is considered mythological, which is fantasy in of itself. And the Thor movies, are the genre of Fantasy, not Sci-fi. Plus the movies pick and choose what to take from the comics, not everything from the comics go into the movies. So alien in the movie, he is not. Otherwise it would be sci-fi. Unless you have proof within the Thor movies that Thor is an alien?

[JayTL]

I consider Fantasy a sub-genre of a more broad term Sci-Fi.

There's no real wrong answer. Because it's both.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

I see.

Nah, they were called elves mate, watch it again.

[kylor]

I think this post I found covers a lot of this stuff. I'll just pop it here for a good read.

In both Marvel Comics and the MCU it’s been said that the Asgardians are just aliens, but Marvel has retconned their origin a bunch. It’s a bit like clinging to a single Joker origin or definitive Deadpool origin, and just saying because you agree it’s the actual origin.

I don’t know exactly when Marvel settled on the “Asgardians (and other Gods) are just aliens”. I remember that particular explanation being a prominent plot point of the alternate universe story Earth X where Loki figures out the Asgardians are formless aliens who are shaped by other’s beliefs. I know that’s not where that started. In fact the Buck Rogers sci-fi alien stuff dates back to Stan Lee, but as to whether Stan Lee intended for Asgardians to be considered aliens in the same way the Kree and Skrull are considered aliens, I think is an open debate.

First of all it’s really sort of semantics. Aliens are “extra-terrestrials”, and in that sense Asgardians are aliens. However both Odin and Zeus are at or near the level of cosmic elders.



Odin and Zeus in Marvel are about as close to these characters as recurring characters get.



Saying they are “just really advanced aliens”, is sort of like saying “mutants are just really advanced humans”. Technically the statement is true, but there’s a reason mutants are separated from humans, and that’s because the laws that govern what makes a human, a human simply doesn’t seem to apply to them.

It’s been repeated, for example, that technically Thor is not immortal (because he ages very slowly and can be killed), yet it’s taken as a given if he dies he will be resurrected. We can say this is just par for the course with any comic character, after all completely normal man Norman Osborn and Doc Ock have both managed this, but they required convoluted explanations as to why they did die but not really, but it’s accepted that death is death for them. With Thor we have Ragnarok; a stated cycle of death and rebirth. Thor can and does die, but he also can and will be reborn, because Ragnarok.

During the events of Avengers Disassembled Thor died, or not really:



The book was effectively cancelled, Marvel was without most “God” based characters for a while, and things entered a period of very grounded realism.

This is a pretty common eb and flow in comics: the realism to hokey nonsense eb and flow.

It’s very noticeable in characters like Batman or Daredevil, which often trend towards “grittier” stories with more “plausible” explanations. However when you’re dealing with characters like Thor (and even Superman) often they replace grounded realism with just using a bunch of scientific soundy terms as if that shit means anything. Like Midichlorians in Star Wars. There’s a reason people hate that sh**.

So to in the first Thor, Thor exclaims that “magic is just a word for something science hasn’t figured out yet”. Except, **** you, no, it isn’t. Science is all about laws, and that reality seems to obey certain rules and laws. I have no patience to turn this into a 100 page essay on what science says is and is not possible, but let’s just say for sake of agreement, no something like Thor isn’t possible.

No amount of science can explain Rune King Thor and Ragnarok:



There’s no amount of science that can explain this:



So there’s an alien…with a crown…a magi…I mean science we haven’t explained yet crown…and when he puts on a different magi…science we haven’t explained yet crown he grows to a huge size and destroys Asgard a magi…science we haven’t explained yet eternal…okay, not eternal, but old enough it’s eternal by anyone’s standards…place…that goes through a magi…science we haven’t explained yet…cycle of death and resurrection…something prohibited by science we have explained…and his name is Surtur and he rules over a scientific realm of the dead.

Got it.

The Skrulls, Shi’ar and Kree are all advanced, but we accept them as basically biological beings. We don’t really assign the same designation to Asgardians. Sorry, beat your chest all you want, we just don’t. No matter what exposition has been given over the years, it doesn’t square with the depiction of the comic books.

In the comics and movies they are most certainly Gods.

Thank you and goodnight, I'm done with Cyberpunk's posts for today.

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by kylor

So alien in the movie, he is not. Otherwise it would be sci-fi.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

[Show spoiler]

Your gif spam does not explain anything.

Please refer to this post.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=33

Thank you, I'm done with your dumb posts today. Peace out!

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by kylor

Your gif spam does not explain anything.

Please refer to this post.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=33

Thank you, I'm done with your dumb posts today. Peace out!

I mean, I don't know how sci-fi can you possibly get.

[Erzengel]

I'm still wrapping my head around " highly advanced alien technology" is the reasoning behind the enchantment Odin puts on Mjolnir, instead of the easier explanation which is magic.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

I mean, I don't know how sci-fi can you possibly get.

I appreciate the bait but I've posted enough for you to look through. Explain Ragnarok and Sultur who rules a kingdom of dead with science (mentioned in the post linked). I'd appreciate your input to what is said there.

[kylor]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

I'm still wrapping my head around " highly advanced alien technology" is the reasoning behind the enchantment Odin puts on Mjolnir, instead of the easier explanation which is magic.

Same thing goes for Stormbreaker and how that also has the ability to fly around at the will of Thor, since it was only made of wood and metal!

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

I'm still wrapping my head around " highly advanced alien technology" is the reasoning behind the enchantment Odin puts on Mjolnir, instead of the easier explanation which is magic.

No because magic isn't real.

Originally Posted by kylor

I appreciate the bait but I've posted enough for you to look through. [b]Explain Ragnarok and Sultur who rules a kingdom of dead with science[/b\ (mentioned in the post linked). I'd appreciate your input to what is said there.

I don't think that's as hard to shallow as Tony Stark just magically making god-like suits.