Audio Remixes Discussion Thread

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Here's the new mix over the main titles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jPqqD5wRIQ

All of that extraneous off-screen human "walla" was added for the 5.1 mix. None of it was present in the original 2.0 theatrical or VHS/laserdisc track. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. EVERY quiet scene is overlaid with "cartoony" sound effects or added background dialogue, or both. It's infuriating.

Is there a fan restoration somewhere that fixes it?

[Krynoid-Man]

I was watching the 4K of Star Wars and I found the Dolby Atmos remix disappointing. I used to have the 2006 GOUT DVD, and the bog standard stereo track (when upmixed to 2.1 on my audio set up) had much more powerful bass than the Atmos.

[notops]

Originally Posted by Jay H.

"The picture has to look better than it has EVER looked, but don't mess with the original audio!" - the majority of people when a Blu-ray/4K UHD catalog title is announced

A well done UHD transfer will get closer to the look of the negative than the look of a release print (barring the occasional transfer that goes crazy with the contrast or the HDR grading). It wont change the fx, the editing, etc. Why should we want an audio remix that adds new audio fx and the like? I just don't get what's unreasonable or illogical about wanting a preservation.

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Jay H.

"The picture has to look better than it has EVER looked, but don't mess with the original audio!" - the majority of people when a Blu-ray/4K UHD catalog title is announced

I just don’t get why it’s so ****ing hard. Just put the mono track on the damn disc. If you want to put a remix on, that’s totally fine. Just put the original track ON there.

[Jay H.]

Originally Posted by notops

A well done UHD transfer will get closer to the look of the negative than the look of a release print (barring the occasional transfer that goes crazy with the contrast or the HDR grading). It wont change the fx, the editing, etc. Why should we want an audio remix that adds new audio fx and the like? I just don't get what's unreasonable or illogical about wanting a preservation.

Just one question, and then I'll quit while I'm ahead: how does anyone who buys the disc know what the negative looks like?

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BNex99

Thunderball's mono is arguably a downmix, but if it is, it's of the less egregious 5.1 on the Blu-ray, rather than the UE DVD's more revisionist one. Or I guess it could be a very carefully restored original mono track. (Of course, Thunderball's soundtrack has had different anomalies in almost every release, so who knows?)

Hmm, Thunderball is one of the films I was specifically thinking of.

In one of the opening scenes, the woman drives up to the chateau and parks in the driveway and walks in, and I remember comparing the mixes and being shocked by how many effects they added for the 5.1 mix. Maybe I'm confusing the BD and DVD though. To be honest, Thunderball is among my least favorite Bond films, so it's not one I'm as familiar with as some others.

The most egregious changes, to me, are on OHMSS, where the music is dialed down WAY too low. The change totally ruins the lengthy "Gumbold's safe" sequence, which is meant to be dominated by score for about five minutes.

[notops]

Originally Posted by Jay H.

Just one question, and then I'll quit while I'm ahead: how does anyone who buys the disc know what the negative looks like?

Seeing as nobody other than a telecine artist sees it, we don't. But it is still the highest quality source material, so it's nice to get as close as possible to it.

Do you realize that when we get a lossless rendering of the original audio, it usually sounds better than the optical track on the release print?

But I ask, why do you mock (here and in other threads) the people who want it preserved? What about it amuses you so?

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Jay H.

Just one question, and then I'll quit while I'm ahead: how does anyone who buys the disc know what the negative looks like?

They know what the negative looks like by seeing detail and clarity on a 4K transfer that wasn't present on previous home video releases.

Obviously the biggest issue in going back to the negative is that color timing choices are lost and must be re-created, and often either aren't, or are re-created inaccurately.

Soderbergh is forever posting shots on his Twitter of Blu-Rays with shots that are missing day-for-night effects, etc, because they went back to the negative, which didn't contain those intended effects.

[Jay H.]

Originally Posted by notops

Seeing as nobody other than a telecine artist sees it, we don't. But it is still the highest quality source material, so it's nice to get as close as possible to it.

Do you realize that when we get a lossless rendering of the original audio, it usually sounds better than the optical track on the release print?

But I ask, why do you mock (here and in other threads) the people who want it preserved? What about it amuses you so?

I'm inquisitive. Thanks for your reply.

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

Is there a fan restoration somewhere that fixes it?

Not sure, but there's a VHS rip on archive.org. You could listen to it yourself, and maybe try to sync it to the Blu.

[Streetlight]

Stupid question, but is the DTS:X mix of Psycho (1960) and the 5.1 mix of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) and Mad Max (1979) on the 4K Blu-rays audibly revisionist?

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Stupid question, but is the DTS:X mix of Psycho (1960) and the 5.1 mix of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) and Mad Max (1979) on the 4K Blu-rays audibly revisionist?

The Psycho remix changed/added/removed sound effects and changed the mix levels of the music. See here:

Originally Posted by litemakr

Here is a comparison of some of the differences. The new sound effects are too modern sounding and they are not what Hitchcock intended in terms of the subtleties of the music balance. The mono track also has more punch IMO.

https://youtu.be/TjSu4w4jci8

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is just an upmix of the mono (which sounds amazing):

Originally Posted by dlb99

The 5.1 is the mono track with spatial separation. Stick to the mono and enjoy the LaserDisc sourced audio which is the very best version of the soundtrack that is known to exist (seriously).

And it has it's own problems, too:

Originally Posted by dcx4610

The 5.1 mix basically made my subwoofer subtlety punch every time someone spoke for the first half of of the movie. Almost like dialogue was in LFE despite the mix overall being pretty tinny and shrill. The Mono mix sounded better

The Mad Max remix is pretty bad. Changed sound effects, muffled music, etc.:

Mad Max - Comparison audio Aussie Mono vs 5.1 remix - YouTube

Plus, the Kino 4K seems to be the first time the ORIGINAL original mono track has been released.

[Streetlight]

Mad Max's 5.1 in the 4K BD is the same 5.1 people complained about, am I correct.

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Mad Max's 5.1 in the 4K BD is the same 5.1 people complained about, am I correct.

Believe so.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

If it’s faithful to the original sound design I’m all for it, if it completely revises and drastically changes the original (Jaws, Terminator, Grease, Batman, Good Bad and the Ugly, Dirty Harry) then NOOOOOOOOPE.

the new Grease release was fantastic in that it went back to the original mix

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

the new Grease release was fantastic in that it went back to the original mix

Too bad about it's other problems, though. I still need to find a copy without the fluctuating brightness.

[d3nt0n]

It's crazy that people are syncing decades old laserdiscs to blu-rays for better audio quality. What the happened to the world of audio engineering where things have gotten so much worse the past 20 years?

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SpazeBlue

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is just an upmix of the mono (which sounds amazing):

The new UHD/BD combo's 5.1 is that, but previous releases have had the "restoration" remix with all the revisionist sound effects.

Originally Posted by SpazeBlue

Plus, the Kino 4K seems to be the first time the ORIGINAL original mono track has been released.

I'm not sure. The 4K mono seems to match MGM's old DVD, which I always thought was a weird hybrid. But if the one on the 4K indeed is the real original track, then the old DVD might have been, too.

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by BNex99

The new UHD/BD combo's 5.1 is that, but previous releases have had the "restoration" remix with all the revisionist sound effects.

Yep, but he specified 4K so I didn't mention it.

Originally Posted by BNex99

I'm not sure. The 4K mono seems to match MGM's old DVD, which I always thought was a weird hybrid. But if the one on the 4K indeed is the real original track, then the old DVD might have been, too.

There was a HUGE discussion in the 4K thread about all the different mixes trying to find which was actually the original, and there were a lot of differences between all tracks. Here's what I found about the DVD:

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I wouldn't be surprised if the old DVD might of been a "hybrid" mix of the original Aussie and the AIP dub. I did some comparisons between the two and both have unique sound effects (AIP removes, mixes low, or add effects such as ambiance).

[Show spoiler]They're generally minor things but the scenes where Max is running to Jessie and Max limping himself back to his car are the biggest (there are also some seagull sounds when Max is sitting on the beach after the hospital in the AIP dub that aren't present on the Aussie). I can barely hear Max's footsteps in the Aussie mono and they sound different from the ones in the AIP dub (I assume the Aussie track might of been "on set" audio rather than Foley but the music just buries it).

Plus, the Aussie mono on the Kino is much better sounding fidelity-wise compared to the 5.1 track (even if you fold-down the 5.1 mix to mono there would still be traces of that track's fake stereo effects).

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by SpazeBlue

Yep, but he specified 4K so I didn't mention it.

You're right; I missed that. My apologies.

Originally Posted by SpazeBlue

There was a HUGE discussion in the 4K thread about all the different mixes trying to find which was actually the original, and there were a lot of differences between all tracks. Here's what I found about the DVD:

True enough; that movie's had quite the audio history.