The Killing and Killer's Kiss 4K UHDs (1955-1956)

[BluProofie]

Criterion’s jump to 4K and first wave of UHD releases were likely planned out in advance so I think it’s highly unlikely that they passed on the 4K rights for a bunch of titles.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

Criterion’s jump to 4K and first wave of UHD releases were likely planned out in advance so I think it’s highly unlikely that they passed on the 4K rights for a bunch of titles.

As opposed to...?

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by yoloswegmaster420

the Big C have already announced/released 9 4K titles (with DV/HDR10!) within 5 months. Like they are ok with releasing 'The Last Waltz' or 'The Piano' on 4K but are happy to pass on 'Paths of Glory' or 'Some Like it Hot'?

I imagine it comes down to continuing their mission and releasing unique titles, knowing that they can't simply re-release every title in 4K, especially at their rate of ~4 to 5 new releases per month.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

If Criterion simply passed on 4K rights, the insider would likely have said that. There's nothing nefarious about them scooping up titles that were simply available to any label for licensing.. Instead, they've been pretty cryptic every time they've been asked if they simply got to these MGM titles before Criterion did.

As of right now Kino got these titles previously released from Criterion, presumably all in the same deal:

Silence of the Lambs
Some Like it Hot
Paths of Glory
The Great Escape
In The Heat of the Night
Dressed to Kill
The Killing
Killer's Kiss

You really believe Criterion passed on all of these? You could make the argument that they may have passed on one or two, but all? I find that very hard to believe. I'm sure this isn't all of them either. I expect The Graduate, and others too. And again, Arrow passed on The Apartment too? You could argue that Criterion were short-sighted as far as 4K goes, but Arrow too? You have to keep in mind that Kino is the largest customer for MGM, they license some really obscure titles that Criterion, and Arrow would never touch. What's a good way to keep them doing that? How about access to 4K rights before any other label? When I stated this recently, the Kino Insider simply said they rarely get first dibs before other labels, but that in no way answers that they didn't with these 4K titles. However they acquired them, the Insider refuses to publicly state how they did. And this is from an Insider who has had zero problems divulging such details in the past, or letting us know when another label has something, etc.. Interpret that however you want.

Let's look at the Criterion release dates of those.

Silence of the Lambs = Feb 2018
Some Like it Hot = Nov 2018
Paths of Glory = Oct 2010
Great Escape = May 2020
Heat of the Night = Jan 2019
Dressed to Kill = Sep 2015
Killing/Killer's Kiss = Aug 2011

The only one of those that's close to the time frame of Criterion choosing to release stuff on 4K disc is Great Escape. The rest? Come on. Several of them go back far enough to before 4K disc even existed. Criterion's reticence towards 4K disc is the stuff of infamy, and keep in mind that Arrow were similarly inclined until they had their Damascene conversion so I'm not shocked that The Apartment was also pinched by Kino. RoboCop was not however, and the wording of James Flower's posts on Twitter would appear to indicate that they actually had those rights from the start e.g. "we weren't able to do a 4K UHD until now".

Sometimes the simplest answer is just that, rather than there being some sort of conspiracy. If Kino got given first dibs to all this stuff that other labels passed on then that's one thing, preferred customers get better treatment and all that, but what I don't believe is that there was some sort of prohibition that prevented the others from having these rights in the first place. Nah, they didn't feel that they were necessary so they passed on them.

[danman227460]

Makes you wonder if Criterion saw the 4K master on some of those titles and went nah, we don't want to deal with it. I mean this is all tin foil hat but considering how much flack Kino has been getting for their 4Ks recently, its something to consider

Can you imagine the backlash Criterion would have gotten if SOTL came out with that color timing issue? Kino on the other hand isn't as big and could brush it off like they did.

It isn't like Criterion hasn't had issues before but for their first foray into 4K, they might want something that is as less trouble and hassle as possible.

It would be interesting to see how the rest of Kino's MGM titles look and if they have any issues.

[jkoffman]

Seems like a good time to remind everyone that 4K restorations and releases are more expensive to produce. Businesses still have to make business decisions in the end. Criterion can't just flick a switch and re-release everything just because it's an ideal presentation that we'd all like to see.

[Gacivory]

Really excited for The Killing! Will get Killer’s Kiss on sale.

[Warm Gun]

Killer's Kiss is the one Kubrick I never watched. (Well, except for Fear and Desire, but nobody seems to give a damn about it.) Will also be nice to upgrade The Killing from the DVD.

[Xephix]

It could be a case of MGM wanting to push out the rest of their UHD back catalogue. If Criterion or Arrow got the rights it would probably take many months for them to even start work on it and might not come out until next year at most. (I'm sure most of their UHD releases for 2022 have already been planned)

Kino may be a bit doggy when it comes to quality control but they do pump out releases quickly.

[yoloswegmaster420]

Amusing for KL Insider to say that 4K releases for To Kill a Mockingbird and Witness for the Prosecution weren't going to sell well but then release a 4K version of 'Killer's Kiss', one of Kubrick's lesser-acclaimed and not as well-known titles. It's especially nowhere near as well known or regarded as 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Witness for the Prosecution'.

[dallywhitty]

Not sure how I feel about them being sold separately. On the one hand, it's nice to see Killer's Kiss treated like a singular feature film and not a glorified extra (and I actually prefer it to The Killing), but on the other hand, it means I'd be spending something like £50 to obtain both. Hard pill to swallow when I spent less than a tenner on the Arrow BD.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by yoloswegmaster420

Amusing for KL Insider to say that 4K releases for To Kill a Mockingbird and Witness for the Prosecution weren't going to sell well but then release a 4K version of 'Killer's Kiss', one of Kubrick's lesser-acclaimed and not as well-known titles. It's especially nowhere near as well known or regarded as 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Witness for the Prosecution'.

Maybe they got a good deal on it (I'm sure licensing cost on it wasn't as high as a super title), and only had to remaster 67m, versus 129m & 116, respectively, and they can pop it onto a BD-66 instead of BD-100. And of course they figured having the Kubrick name on it would help. He seems to be selling well on 4K, so maybe completists will pick this one up.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by yoloswegmaster420

Amusing for KL Insider to say that 4K releases for To Kill a Mockingbird and Witness for the Prosecution weren't going to sell well but then release a 4K version of 'Killer's Kiss', one of Kubrick's lesser-acclaimed and not as well-known titles. It's especially nowhere near as well known or regarded as 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Witness for the Prosecution'.

I hear ya, but again, the business side has also been alluded to by KLI. Sometimes you have to take a package deal or nothing at all.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I expect The Graduate, and others too.

I'd smash my testicles with a hammer if it meant getting a UHD of The Graduate. Can't believe it's not on StudioCanal's 2022 slate. I would've gladly snatched up a tat-laden box set.

[dylrichard02]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

I'd smash my testicles with a hammer if it meant getting a UHD of The Graduate. Can't believe it's not on StudioCanal's 2022 slate. I would've gladly snatched up a tat-laden box set.

SC UHD with a Fidelity encode would be so nice!

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Let's look at the Criterion release dates of those.

Silence of the Lambs = Feb 2018
Some Like it Hot = Nov 2018
Paths of Glory = Oct 2010
Great Escape = May 2020
Heat of the Night = Jan 2019
Dressed to Kill = Sep 2015
Killing/Killer's Kiss = Aug 2011

The only one of those that's close to the time frame of Criterion choosing to release stuff on 4K disc is Great Escape. The rest? Come on. Several of them go back far enough to before 4K disc even existed. Criterion's reticence towards 4K disc is the stuff of infamy, and keep in mind that Arrow were similarly inclined until they had their Damascene conversion so I'm not shocked that The Apartment was also pinched by Kino. RoboCop was not however, and the wording of James Flower's posts on Twitter would appear to indicate that they actually had those rights from the start e.g. "we weren't able to do a 4K UHD until now".

Sometimes the simplest answer is just that, rather than there being some sort of conspiracy. If Kino got given first dibs to all this stuff that other labels passed on then that's one thing, preferred customers get better treatment and all that, but what I don't believe is that there was some sort of prohibition that prevented the others from having these rights in the first place. Nah, they didn't feel that they were necessary so they passed on them.

I'm not sure if it's been officially stated by Kino yet, but it seems pretty clear that 4K licensing is completely separate for MGM than BD licensing. So release dates of those Criterion titles would have no bearing whatsoever on this since they would seemingly have to make two separate licensing agreements to get both BD and 4K rights.

We also have no idea when MGM started allowing labels to get 4K licensing rights from them. My stance is, it's very possible, if not likely, that Kino was granted first access right when the gates opened. Neither of us knows what's the truth, and it's all speculation either way, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Brad1963]

I honestly think Criterion feels they made enough or more than enough money on the Blu-ray and DVD releases of the MGM licensed titles.

[Poya]

Damn, Kubrick's entire catalog will soon be upgraded to 4K. Wish the same could be said for Scorsese's. I know he's made more but Kundun deserves a 4K release!

[gates70]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

I'd smash my testicles with a hammer if it meant getting a UHD of The Graduate. Can't believe it's not on StudioCanal's 2022 slate. I would've gladly snatched up a tat-laden box set.

Bookmarked...we want video.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by gates70

Bookmarked...we want video.