Cell shrunk to 45 nm :)

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by rigpig

......define 'soon'.....for xmas 2008 yes. This isn't like any other console roll-out.....the PS3 is the first console ever to essentially wield the hammer blow that gives a new media format, BD, the edge. New hardware development would have started shortly after first market debut of current chassis....at the very latest.....so it's well underway. It isn't a total redesign anyways......a thermal chassis redesign that would build on the backbone of existing unit & also a new mobo etc. Price cuts will happen on current gen sure, but newer hardware will help the platform & BD reach the inevitable tipping point sooner.

Over the last year there have been hundreds of posts claiming that Sony absolutely has to blow their load all at once to win the format war. They havent, and they still won.

Theres no denying that a slim PS3 is an eventual reality. But id be extremely surprised if it came before christmas 2009. Right now price cuts will get them significant sales increases (and even those are likely a couple months away). Once they get to a point where the install base is much more established, then they will change the form factor.

[rigpig]

.....you can cut price on your current chassis AND roll out newer chassis....improved hardware coming out sooner than later will never hurt if it increases performance and lowers unit cost to manufacturer. By the end of 2008 we will be over 2 years into current hardware chassis rollout.....a new formfactor by then might be 'early' in some peoples minds...but by that time the blu-ray/PS3 momentum will have gathered even more steam so a next gen PS3 may have the most impact possible during xmas 2008, the first xmas w/ essentially one HD disc format.

[GCW2216]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Hopefully a price drop is coming soon.

In order for the PS3 to be successful Sony needs to make money. $399 for a PS3 is extremely cheap, it is the best gaming device and Blu-ray player out there. I don't think Sony should reduce the price any further.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by GCW2216

In order for the PS3 to be successful Sony needs to make money. $399 for a PS3 is extremely cheap, it is the best gaming device and Blu-ray player out there. I don't think Sony should reduce the price any further.

Unfortunately, many people don't agree, and think $399 is too expensive for a game console. There's lots of people still gaming on a PS2 waiting for the PS3 to become more affordable.

When the $299 rumors hit a few weeks ago, I read posts on message boards everywhere saying that if the PS3 drops to $299, they're going to buy one.

$299 seems to be the sweet spot with many people.

[mightypen]

Originally Posted by GCW2216

In order for the PS3 to be successful Sony needs to make money. $399 for a PS3 is extremely cheap, it is the best gaming device and Blu-ray player out there. I don't think Sony should reduce the price any further.

at $399, the ps3 is going to continue to struggle in the US market. Needs a non-gimped version at $299 before gtaiv desperately.

[unreal1080p]

Originally Posted by GCW2216

In order for the PS3 to be successful Sony needs to make money. $399 for a PS3 is extremely cheap, it is the best gaming device and Blu-ray player out there. I don't think Sony should reduce the price any further.

With .45nm Sony will be able to put out a 299$ PS3 while either breaking even or making a slim profit (they are breaking even with the .65nm 40gig PS3). If they could include software emulation on a .45nm 299$ PS3 and at least break even... then they should do it. They should keep the hard drive on the 299$ version at 40gig and have the 399$ version use either 120 or 160gig... further helping differentiate them... over and above full hardware backward compatibility on an eventual .45nm 399$ version.

I think many would replace their .90nm 60gig & .90nm 80gig PS3's for a quieter, cooler (temperature) and less power consumming fully hardware backward compatible .45nm PS3.

Both new units (.45nm) should include 1 bundled movie and the more expensive unit should also include a current game.

Also, there should be a coupon inside both consoles for 5 free Blu-Ray movies + 1 free game. The free game would be one of these 5 bargain 35$ older PS3 games:

FolkLore
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Resistance: Fall of Man
Ridge Racer 7

http://www.dailytech.com/SCEJ+Confir...ticle10577.htm

By offering both a game and movies you almost guarantee that over 90% of new PS3 owners won't forget to mail in the offer and therefore increase the chances of the PS3 being used as both a gaming console AND a Blu-Ray movie player. Gamers that might have snoozed on the older 5 free Blu-Ray movie offer would most certainly fill it if it also included a free game + them choosing 5 movies out of choice of 25 will likely have them watch the movies once they receive them... as opposed to them possibly not being interested in the defacto bundled movie.

The free movies/game offer should be displayed in a VERY visible manner on the PS3 box packaging (as opposed to just putting a coupon inside the box and hoping people notice it...).

[Zvi]

I got my 1st gen PS3 (90nm) as a present. So far I'm really happy with its performance. No compaints about heat and noise. However, I'd upgrade to 45nm model for sure. I don't play that many games on the consoles, and I couldn't care less about backwards compatability either.

[UTVOL06]

Originally Posted by spicynacho

Cheaper, smaller, more energy efficient PS3's should be just around the corner...



http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ll-follow.html

My new computer has the new Intel 45nm CPU in it. Just means cheaper for the consumer and less power consumption.

[Thunderchildga]

OK gameboys and gals, what was the original MSRP cost of a Playstation 2? I remember it being around the $3-400 mark. Now PS2s are down to near $125 and even smaller.

Point is that while the PS3 is way more of a real computer than a PS2, in the first year, it's manufacturing cost has plummeted and while it may never get down to $125, it's certainly plausible that it may get near $200 or below some day.

Also, remember Sony said from the start that the PS2 had a product life expectancy of 10 years. It's still a popular seller and with it in a new version selling next to the PS3, I'd say there's a good chance that statement will be proven right.

The PS3 is going to be around for along time, probably for a few years while the PS4 is getting it's legs and all the while getting better and even more refined.

[swivel]

Originally Posted by bageleaterkkjji

its ibm but still intel has had 45nm processers that use way less energy and are way faster than the 65nm ones so a ps3 one isnt that suprising...what is suprising is that it isnt more powerful

The reason it isn't more powerful is because it is still the same circuit and same clockspeed. It wouldn't make sense to ratchet up the CPU speed, because the games still have to be developed for the lowest common denominator. All you would do is increase the heat and power consumption, with no benefit.

I can't wait to see the next form-factor. I'll gladly buy a second PS3 when it comes out. Right now I move my PS3 between the living room and my game-room depending on whether or now we are watching a movie or playing Rock-Band. A second PS3 is going to be very nice.

[miokti]

I'm an IC layout designer for cellphones, and there is an on-going migration from 65nm to 45nm processes industry-wide. That is why phones are getting smaller. The same thing can be applied to larger electronic devices. Here's why:

1) Device sizes are smaller, thus you can have a smaller die, thus a smaller chip. If the die is small, that means you can put more of it in the same silicon wafer. Companies pay by the wafer, so they want the die size small so they can get more chips for the same amount they pay. For example, if a die (a die is the raw chip) is 1" square (really big, unrealistic) lets say you can fit 10,000 on a wafer that cost you $10,000 (really cheap, unrealistic). Then you pay to have your die packaged, let's say 10cents each. To break even you have to sell the chip at $1.10 each. Now, let's say your engineers switched to a smaller process and managed to make you die smaller at 0.5inch square (really big reduction, unrealistic). Now you can fit 20,000 on a wafer that you still paid $10,000 for. You can now sell your chips for as low as 60cents to break even. My numbers are exaggerated. Companies make decisions like these based on tenths of cents, but since they sell in volumes of tens of millions, the still make profits.

2) Smaller devices means more devices on-chip and less on the circuit board. On the circuit board, you pay per device. On the chip, you pay by the wafer and processing. Whether you have 1million devices or 10million devices inside the chip, you pay the same. By moving circuits on the circuit-board into the chip, you are saving money and also making the device smaller.

[plee]

Originally Posted by Zvi

I got my 1st gen PS3 (90nm) as a present. So far I'm really happy with its performance. No compaints about heat and noise. However, I'd upgrade to 45nm model for sure. I don't play that many games on the consoles, and I couldn't care less about backwards compatability either.

Well, the PS3 will be 2 years old this year so I would bet you will see a redesign of some sort by the end of the year with the 45nm. I would like for it to be $299, even $349 would be OK.

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by rigpig

.....you can cut price on your current chassis AND roll out newer chassis....improved hardware coming out sooner than later will never hurt if it increases performance and lowers unit cost to manufacturer. By the end of 2008 we will be over 2 years into current hardware chassis rollout.....a new formfactor by then might be 'early' in some peoples minds...but by that time the blu-ray/PS3 momentum will have gathered even more steam so a next gen PS3 may have the most impact possible during xmas 2008, the first xmas w/ essentially one HD disc format.

Lowering price and changing a chassis at the same time at this state in the life cycle is rediculous. Then what do they do 2 years from now to stimulate sales? Continuously drop prices until they're practically giving them away?

You keep missing the point. Its not a matter of whether they physically do it or not. And im not disputing that a lower cost + new form factor PS3 would have great sales. But this isnt a 1year life cycle. They need to think about 2-3 years from now and how sales are going to be then. And if they use all their aces now, they have nothing left to use in later years.

The PS3 to many people is still very new. Its only been on the market for 1.25 years. New colors and price reductions are more than enough to stimulate sales by a significant amount. But dropping prices AND new colors AND a new form factor all at once will not have as strong an effect as spacing atleast 2 of these out by some time.

Its all the same as why sony didnt just release the PS3 at $399 to begin with. Its a long race not a sprint. And the last thing they want is a race to the bottom price-wise, which will be their only option if they use all their other cards.

[iNCREDiPiNOY]

Wake me up when this shrunk to 5nm

[xtop]

haha. you guys crack me up. look at the timeframe of the ps1, ps2 and psp trims and figure out when the ps3 slim will happen

[spicynacho]

Originally Posted by xtop

haha. you guys crack me up. look at the timeframe of the ps1, ps2 and psp trims and figure out when the ps3 slim will happen

PSP was two years. PS was sony's first foray into the console market, they learned from that the benefits of shrinking, did it faster for PS2, faster still for PSP. Why not accelerate with PS3?

[plee]

Originally Posted by spicynacho

PSP was two years. PS was sony's first foray into the console market, they learned from that the benefits of shrinking, did it faster for PS2, faster still for PSP. Why not accelerate with PS3?

And they are also shrinking the Bluray drive so you can bet there will be a "slim" version but it just when....

[xtop]

Originally Posted by spicynacho

PSP was two years. PS was sony's first foray into the console market, they learned from that the benefits of shrinking, did it faster for PS2, faster still for PSP. Why not accelerate with PS3?

5 years for the ps1, 4 years for the ps2. the psp was a bad example i guess because its a handheld, nintendo history shows those shrink faster and more often.

how long has the ps3 been out again?

[wem003]

Originally Posted by miokti

I'm an IC layout designer for cellphones, and there is an on-going migration from 65nm to 45nm processes industry-wide. That is why phones are getting smaller. The same thing can be applied to larger electronic devices. Here's why:

1) Device sizes are smaller, thus you can have a smaller die, thus a smaller chip. If the die is small, that means you can put more of it in the same silicon wafer. Companies pay by the wafer, so they want the die size small so they can get more chips for the same amount they pay. For example, if a die (a die is the raw chip) is 1" square (really big, unrealistic) lets say you can fit 10,000 on a wafer that cost you $10,000 (really cheap, unrealistic). Then you pay to have your die packaged, let's say 10cents each. To break even you have to sell the chip at $1.10 each. Now, let's say your engineers switched to a smaller process and managed to make you die smaller at 0.5inch square (really big reduction, unrealistic). Now you can fit 20,000 on a wafer that you still paid $10,000 for. You can now sell your chips for as low as 60cents to break even. My numbers are exaggerated. Companies make decisions like these based on tenths of cents, but since they sell in volumes of tens of millions, the still make profits.

2) Smaller devices means more devices on-chip and less on the circuit board. On the circuit board, you pay per device. On the chip, you pay by the wafer and processing. Whether you have 1million devices or 10million devices inside the chip, you pay the same. By moving circuits on the circuit-board into the chip, you are saving money and also making the device smaller.

Thank you for this explanation - I am not into this, and your example was great for the layman.

[marzetta7]

Great news. Question is, will we ever see a silver PS3?