The Rules of the Game 4K UHD (1939)

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by All Darc

The Wall

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c9Jg1AhsuZM

[All Darc]

Well, the 4K looks better in fine detail than the Criterion 1080p. Not sure if it's just due better compression.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...195968&i=1&l=0

For other side Criterion have brighter shadows. The 4K despite HDR may have less visebls shadows details.

[Dailyan]

That tends to happen when you compare a nearly 20 year old HD master that was scanned with a potato.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

That tends to happen when you compare a nearly 20 year old HD master that was scanned with a potato.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DrQqajtiRt4

[All Darc]

Well, it wasn't often as today, but there was some very good 2K scanners 20 years ago, and even some 4K (very rare and pricy back then). Anyway Criterion didn't have budget to such thing 20 years ago, being restricted to 1080p transfers with some digital fixing. Anyway Criterion was a pioneer.

This 4K french transfer it's so sharp that I supose they used some high quality sharpening filter, just a little bit to compensate the little softening added from two generations of fine grain masters made from the original print.

Originally Posted by Dailyan

That tends to happen when you compare a nearly 20 year old HD master that was scanned with a potato.

[Member-496152]

Any photos yet of the how the new packaging art looks like irl? I wonder if they changed the design of the booklet too?

[tom_flyingv]

I've got the French 4k. While I found the detail much sharper I found the blacks too dark and obscured the detail on clothing and particularly in the airport scene at the beginning. I got round this by using the HDR optimiser on the Panasonic player to bring up the brightness level to watchable. Have also got the BFI 4k blu, which has good detail and is lighter so can see all detail. Interesting to see how Criterion play this but am shying away from them because of the scratch issue.

[grahams76]

Originally Posted by tom_flyingv

I've got the French 4k. While I found the detail much sharper I found the blacks too dark and obscured the detail on clothing and particularly in the airport scene at the beginning. I got round this by using the HDR optimiser on the Panasonic player to bring up the brightness level to watchable. Have also got the BFI 4k blu, which has good detail and is lighter so can see all detail. Interesting to see how Criterion play this but am shying away from them because of the scratch issue.

Yep. The blacks on the French 4K were way too dark giving the whole thing a really contrasty look. I'm actually on the verge of 'downgrading' to the BFI blu but am waiting to see reports of what the Criterion 4K looks like. I've already sold my French 4K.

[M A]

What if you just forced the French 4K back into SDR on your system?

[mande2013]

Am I the only one surprised there was even such a push to release this film on UHD blu-ray to begin with given the current state of its elements and source materials?

[professorwho]

Probably to gauge interest in non-English language classic cinema on UHD. I suspect Branded to Kill is for the same reason. Hopefully both sell well. (I'll probably buy both before the B&N sale to give back a little more)

[Member-496152]

Is this new restoration really not that much of a difference? I'm aware of the history of the film but debating if I need to buy the 4K if it's really not a striking difference from the Criterion blu ray I've owned for years.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Probably to gauge interest in non-English language classic cinema on UHD. I suspect Branded to Kill is for the same reason. Hopefully both sell well. (I'll probably buy both before the B&N sale to give back a little more)

But Branded to Kill was specifically noted for being a great restoration, so I'm not sure it's the same scenario.

[mande2013]

Originally Posted by MidnightMovies

Is this new restoration really not that much of a difference? I'm aware of the history of the film but debating if I need to buy the 4K if it's really not a striking difference from the Criterion blu ray I've owned for years.

I already have the French UHD, so if the Criterion isn't a massive improvement I may just opt for the BFI blu-ray to have a less contrast-y presentation of the new restoration on hand. This doesn't seem like a title worth putting up with the scratch issue for. Breathless yes, given how awful the Studio Canal encode of that film is.

The compression on the French 4K is quite good. The excessive contrast is the only issue really.

[M A]

Originally Posted by tom_flyingv

I've got the French 4k. While I found the detail much sharper I found the blacks too dark and obscured the detail on clothing and particularly in the airport scene at the beginning. I got round this by using the HDR optimiser on the Panasonic player to bring up the brightness level to watchable. Have also got the BFI 4k blu, which has good detail and is lighter so can see all detail. Interesting to see how Criterion play this but am shying away from them because of the scratch issue.

Originally Posted by grahams76

Yep. The blacks on the French 4K were way too dark giving the whole thing a really contrasty look. I'm actually on the verge of 'downgrading' to the BFI blu but am waiting to see reports of what the Criterion 4K looks like. I've already sold my French 4K.

Originally Posted by mande2013

I already have the French UHD, so if the Criterion isn't a massive improvement I may just opt for the BFI blu-ray to have a less contrast-y presentation of the new restoration on hand. This doesn't seem like a title worth putting up with the scratch issue for. Breathless yes, given how awful the Studio Canal encode of that film is.

The compression on the French 4K is quite good. The excessive contrast is the only issue really.

Originally Posted by M A

What if you just forced the French 4K back into SDR on your system?

Good news! I tried it, and forcing it back into SDR on your system removes the high contrast issue. After doing so, the grading seems to match the site's screencaps of the criterion 4K

[mande2013]

I can't turn off the HDR via my screen, but it seems there are multiple settings on my Panasonic UHD player I need to toggle with to get it just right. Of course, one can always restore to default after watching that one UHD disc where it's best to have the HDR turned off.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by mande2013

I can't turn off the HDR via my screen, but it seems there are multiple settings on my Panasonic UHD player I need to toggle with to get it just right. Of course, one can always restore to default after watching that one UHD disc where it's best to have the HDR turned off.

Forcing the HDR into SDR BT.709 did the trick for me. I also have a Panasonic UHD player. I hope it works out for you since this is an otherwise beautifully encoded master.

[Member-496152]

I'm debating upgrading to the 4K at the current Barnes sale but is the 4K really a major improvment over the older bluray master? I know the 4K uses a newer restoration but the Caps-a-Holic screenshots look really stronger on the 4K in same shots but almost like the grain was scrubbed in others?

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by MidnightMovies

I'm debating upgrading to the 4K at the current Barnes sale but is the 4K really a major improvment over the older bluray master? I know the 4K uses a newer restoration but the Caps-a-Holic screenshots look really stronger on the 4K in same shots but almost like the grain was scrubbed in others?

Since there's not one cap where the grain looks "scrubbed," the answer is yes.

[tama]

Well, going to have to make a B&N switch a roo as my disc came in with a nice scratch and has freezing problems at the 45 minute mark on both my Panny and Sony players.

Edit: made an exchange at my local B&N. 2nd disc played just fine.