What Hi-Fi? ask "Why doesn't anyone make 4K Blu-ray players anymore?"

[Cortiz]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

It's definitely concerning to me. If Panasonic pulls out, we are screwed. With PS5 and Xbox being 4K players, I think those are the mainstream options and will obviously give us a way to play our movies for the rest of our lives but if there aren't any players being made any more, will studios bother even releasing movies physically?

It would be like selling Laserdiscs and hoping that people that still have the players buy them.

My hope is that Panasonic sticks around and we have a few boutique manufacturers like Magnetar pop up to keep everything afloat.

My concern is the mainstream crowd. I really wish companies would promote the format and try to win over new consumers. That's the only way you are going to see a real boom.

That's the problem. Companies are only interested in pushing streaming. Hope i'm wrong but i with Disney pulling out of physical media in Australia, it's a matter of time before other studios follow their lead. i have a total of 3 4K players. 2 of them boxed up and ready to go if anything happens to my main player. That'd probably last me until until i'm gone.

[martinstraka8282]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

It's definitely concerning to me. If Panasonic pulls out, we are screwed. With PS5 and Xbox being 4K players, I think those are the mainstream options and will obviously give us a way to play our movies for the rest of our lives but if there aren't any players being made any more, will studios bother even releasing movies physically?

It would be like selling Laserdiscs and hoping that people that still have the players buy them.

My hope is that Panasonic sticks around and we have a few boutique manufacturers like Magnetar pop up to keep everything afloat.

My concern is the mainstream crowd. I really wish companies would promote the format and try to win over new consumers. That's the only way you are going to see a real boom.

I think it's fair to say we're well past the point of no return for the general public. There's no "selling" them on physical media other than for collectors and enthusiasts.

I've spent so much money on all my discs and then a server for uncompressed rips. Nobody I ever talk to about it really gives a shit. I've had a few people indulge me and they're momentarily impressed, especially if they see the interface in person. They let me tell them all about it, but every single one of them just says they're fine with taking streaming options and don't want discs or a server around. When I bring up the idea of content disappearing, nobody cares much. "Oh well, there's always something to watch!" or "I'll rent it on Prime if necessary".

The thought of $25-40 for a movie is out of the question for most of them too. At least with any regularity. Even though it's not free or necessarily cheap when added up, streaming has cheapened the value of content too much to get people to fork over that much for one film.

The best we can hope for is that the niche is big enough to continue and like you say, enough companies don't bow out entirely.

[dcx4610]

I'm not sure I agree that there isn't selling people on physical media. We have a massive physical media store in my city you have tons of young people buying vinyl records and Manga books. That wasn't always the case.

You have to make it cool and interesting. It's a tough sell and I think the big problem is the people selling the physical media aren't really interested in promoting it which I think is a mistake. They WANT you to go digital because they control it.

Vinyl records are anywhere from $30-60 for the newer stuff and it's still being bought so I don't think it's financial. It just became a hip and cool thing to physically own records and I think the same could be done for movies. I just don't know how you go about promoting it or who would.

[martinstraka8282]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

I'm not sure I agree that there isn't selling people on physical media. We have a massive physical media store in my city you have tons of young people buying vinyl records and Manga books. That wasn't always the case.

You have to make it cool and interesting. It's a tough sell and I think the big problem is the people selling the physical media aren't really interested in promoting it which I think is a mistake. They WANT you to go digital because they control it.

Vinyl records are anywhere from $30-60 for the newer stuff and it's still being bought so I don't think it's financial. It just became a hip and cool thing to physically own records and I think the same could be done for movies. I just don't know how you go about promoting it or who would.

Well maybe we're not really disagreeing. I think what you describe is possible and arguably already where we're at in a lot of ways, but I see that as the niche/enthusiast market similar to the vinyl market. Doesn't mean more consumers can't be brought in, and it is hopefully enough to keep things alive, but I think it's pretty clear the days of it being a hot item or in brick and mortar stores moving quantity are never coming back. The people still hanging on yet to give up for streaming will balance out and eclipse any new buyers being sold on the format. It is a contracting market still.

Everyone I know listens to music, but I only know like 2 people that collect vinyl and only 1 that still buys cd's. That's about where I see movie consumption in my social bubble now with maybe a few more hangers on. I love buying movies on disc and have done it all my adult life, but even I've wavered at times. I don't go there for any music or video games anymore and really, I'm just buying movie discs to pull the DRM free data from them as the only way to get that for my server. Now half the content isn't even coming out on disc in the first place.

[apollo828]

Right. Also, quite a few people buy vinyl for investment purposes, or simply to have around as a knick knack of sorts. (Also, don't forget that cassettes are a small thing again. Who in their right mind would want to bother with tapes if they could avoid it?) Sure, some listen, but not all of them, and the numbers are relatively small anyway. Collectors just make a lot of noise online, and in a few instances, spend enough money to keep some physical stores going. Vinyl's resurgence isn't a sign of some great second coming of physical media so much as it is a sign that CD sales have completely cratered, and streaming rules the roost.

Frankly, if I could populate a server with DRM-free, 4K media from Kaleidescape or a similar service (i.e., essentially 4K Blu quality, maybe even a hair higher), I'd be perfectly happy. For various reasons, I've moved a lot in my life. Long ago, moving the physical media became a massive chore. I'm about to move again. Among other things, I'll be taking ten boxes of books to the library. I may donate a large box or two of CDs to Goodwill too, and maybe some boxes of Blus and DVDs if I can ever sit down and sort the wheat from the chaff. It's such a drag having that stuff taunting me. People who have massive collections are nuts if they don't have a permanent place to store everything, ideally out in the open and not in a box in storage or the basement.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by apollo828

For various reasons, I've moved a lot in my life. Long ago, moving the physical media became a massive chore. I'm about to move again.

Physical Media makes more sense when you own your home. I have plenty of room for my collection x10.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Physical Media makes more sense when you own your home. I have plenty of room for my collection x10.

Also, when one lives 5 minutes from an automated REDBOX machine, one can rent 4K Blu-ray and 2K Blu-ray discs. So even if one has a one-bedroom apartment, physical media is good. Plus, all the nice bonus features like audio commentary tracks with physical media.

[HDTV1080P]

The Twice website republished the What HI-FI article on their website. As far as I am aware there is no streaming services that is bit for bit exactly the same picture and sound quality as 4K Blu-ray discs. Also no streaming service that offers lossless audio for movies and documentaries, at least not yet. 4K Blu-ray discs are at around 128Mbps bit rates, and it has been well documented that for each TV location, an Internet connection speed of 150Mbps minimum is needed to stream 4K Blu-ray discs. Which is possible since many residential Internet providers now offer up to 10,000Mbps upload and download speeds.

I disagree with this article that mentions Sony’s Bravia Core streaming service might offer the same bit rates as 4K Blu-ray disc. Also, one has to own a Sony TV to get the service. Sony should have offered Bravia Core using the Playstation 5 or a app in ROKU or other streaming devices. Currently I have no streaming device connected and I currently am 100% 4K Blu-ray and 2K Blu-ray because of the lossless audio that is exclusive to physical Blu-ray discs and Blu-ray disc download hard drive service providers.

Quote

“ As with every rule, there is an exception, and that’s a streaming service that’s exclusive to Sony TVs called Bravia Core. Sony says that it’s the only streaming service that plays at the same bitrate as a 4K Blu-ray – we want to test it further to validate that claim.”

https://www.twice.com/blog/another-v...-seems-to-care

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Also, when one lives 5 minutes from an automated REDBOX machine, one can rent 4K Blu-ray and 2K Blu-ray discs. So even if one has a one-bedroom apartment, physical media is good.

Redbox has virtually nothing I want. If I want something, I have to order it 99 times out of 100, and often have it shipped from overseas. (That or pay egregious amounts of money to do rent-by-mail with a shop in Seattle, although at that point, buying usually isn't that much more expensive, or possibly cheaper.) I did live in studio and one-bedroom apartments several years long ago, when Netflix rent-by-mail was a thing. Even back then, I had quite a bit of physical media, because even Netflix often didn't have what I wanted. Then, once I bought discs, I was required to store most of them, and my other media, in the basement so that my apartment didn't look like a cluttered mess.

In other words, congratulations to everybody living in eight bedroom mansions, with separate theater rooms and media rooms where they can proudly show off their 10,000 disc collections. I'm not one of them, and will probably never join them. Same goes for the vast majority of the general public. Be thankful some of us still put up with storage issues simply to get what is almost always the highest quality version of a film, even if a handful of us then set things up such that we can put the media in storage and still have access.

[Naiera]

I have a 5000+ disc collection in 65 square metres.

[mx77]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Twice website republished the What HI-FI article on their website. As far as I am aware there is no streaming services that is bit for bit exactly the same picture and sound quality as 4K Blu-ray discs. Also no streaming service that offers lossless audio for movies and documentaries, at least not yet. 4K Blu-ray discs are at around 128Mbps bit rates, and it has been well documented that for each TV location, an Internet connection speed of 150Mbps minimum is needed to stream 4K Blu-ray discs. Which is possible since many residential Internet providers now offer up to 10,000Mbps upload and download speeds.

I disagree with this article that mentions Sony’s Bravia Core streaming service might offer the same bit rates as 4K Blu-ray disc. Also, one has to own a Sony TV to get the service. Sony should have offered Bravia Core using the Playstation 5 or a app in ROKU or other streaming devices. Currently I have no streaming device connected and I currently am 100% 4K Blu-ray and 2K Blu-ray because of the lossless audio that is exclusive to physical Blu-ray discs and Blu-ray disc download hard drive service providers.

Quote

“ As with every rule, there is an exception, and that’s a streaming service that’s exclusive to Sony TVs called Bravia Core. Sony says that it’s the only streaming service that plays at the same bitrate as a 4K Blu-ray – we want to test it further to validate that claim.”

https://www.twice.com/blog/another-v...-seems-to-care

Bravia Core movies are identical to physical discs. That is in fact quite easy to confirm, but let's not go there... The BC movie library is (or at least was) very limited though.

[Steedeel]

I noticed that LG are working on wireless smart TVs. I always used to think my disc watching days are secure until the day I die (even if new discs aren’t produced at all) but I’m not so sure these days. With the potential to offer advertising and collect user data, I can see companies pushing for a streaming only tv. No connections for Disc players satellite tv, broadcast, game consoles, etc.. (the LG wireless tv has a box for connected devices)

Not now, but in maybe 10 years from now, when gaming consoles are just a streaming app and cable and satellite are no longer relevant.

This thought worries me no end.

I know many of us use projectors but we also watch stuff on tv (I certainly use both) and we would then be solely reliant on projectors existing, which is not a given in a world of streaming.

[bhampton]

There will always be a premium option for those people who still have money.

Books haven't gone away and neither will recorded and packaged media.

New tech strives to be simple enough for the new generation of zombies who can't be bothered to figure stuff out.

[Ernest Rister]

I was born in Taylor, Texas, the exact same small Central Texas town as Tex Avery...that's why they called him Tex. It blew up briefly because it was an agriculture rail yard hub, but because of improvements in logistics, and technology, Taylor got abandoned as an economic hub and the city spiraled into a kind of decay...for decades...the first films I ever saw saw as a kid were at the Howard theater in Taylor...my parents would drop my sister and myself off at the Howard -- at the age of four and five -- and those were my introductions to Spielberg, Disney, and Star Wars.

Why do I bring this up? Because Samsung is building a massive industrial manufacturing center in Taylor, and it's already causing a huge influx of capital into Taylor the likes of which hasn't been seen since the '30's. When the plant was announced, they said they'd be manufacturing 4K TV's and players and other electronics...don't know if 4K disc players are still on the docket, but this was just two years ago. I know times change, and poor little Taylor knows that better than anybody (I haven't lived in Taylor since I was five), but, you know, you have to live in hope. Digital delivery is changing landscapes faster than infrastructure can adapt to it.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by blueman_Richie

Brief but interesting feature at What Hi-Fi? asking why there are so few manufacturers of 4K hardware.

https://www.whathifi.com/features/4k...-seems-to-care

I do find this a tad worrying as when was the last "new" 4K player that hit the market? There is a dearth of choice in machines, isn't there? It seems if you want a decent player you get to choose between a couple of Sony and Panasonic models and that's pretty much it? And it seems (based on posts in this forum) that they all have bugs and/or issues that affect most users in one way or another? If I'm about to spend £1000 on a player I want to know it's going to a) last and b) actually work properly.

Optical disc players, predictably, have gone the way of the DoDo Bird. We knew this was going to happen, especially since consumer electronics behemoth, Samsung, finally opted out of the optical disc player manufacturing about six years ago.

Right now we're in the advent of optical discs themselves being ultimately removed from the market en masse, especially with Disney's recent announcement that they will stop releasing their content on Blu-Ray and DVD disc.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by bhampton

There will always be a premium option for those people who still have money.

Books haven't gone away and neither will recorded and packaged media.

New tech strives to be simple enough for the new generation of zombies who can't be bothered to figure stuff out.

However, those types will go the way of the audiophiles, who are still pining over vinyl that will spend a fortune to relive a bygone era.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Optical disc players, predictably, have gone the way of the DoDo Bird. We knew this was going to happen, especially since consumer electronics behemoth, Samsung, finally opted out of the optical disc player manufacturing about six years ago.

Right. Oppo may have been the final hope of sorts for optical disc fans. One of their execs was obsessed with high-end audio, and is the main reason Oppo made the 203 and 205. While being profitable, he couldn't beat out the other execs who argued that Oppo would make more money from cell phones than they would from disc players.

It's been six years since Oppo exited. It's a miracle we still have Panasonic and Sony models available (even if they're older models), not to mention standalone PC drives (although PowerDVD is pretty much useless due to SGX issues, leaving only...other uses). I suppose there's the new Magnetar player but I'm certainly not going to pay ridiculous prices for a standalone player.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Right now we're in the advent of optical discs themselves being ultimately removed from the market en masse, especially with Disney's recent announcement that they will stop releasing their content on Blu-Ray and DVD disc.

IN AUSTRALIA.

You seem to read what you want to read. Players are still on sale, available to anyone everywhere, and discs are still released en masse as well. GTFO with your alternative reality.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by LiarLiarPantsOnFire

I do agree with much of what you have said, but if you’re implying here that Australia isn’t in the developed world then that’s a ridiculous statement?

I'm not, at all. I was referring to 4K UHD players being available to buy anywhere, to anyone.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Disney's recent announcement that they will stop releasing their content on Blu-Ray and DVD disc.

I think you read it wrong. Disney made no such announcement.