Quote:
Originally Posted by LostReelsUK
Hi this is Geoff at Lost Reels and I had posted some information on this print on the Criterion forum and I also replied to Shane Rollins when he emailed me but he hasn't posted my responses here as yet.
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First, apologies to Geoff, because I just checked this thread now. Here's his response:
Quote:
Hello Shane,
Thank-you for your email and interest. We did indeed screen LAST SUMMER from a BFI 35mm print on June 13. The (publicly available) information on this print is attached below. The length is 8728 feet which in 35mm is just a few seconds short of 97 minutes. My research differs from yours in that I understand that the VHS ‘R’ rated version released in the US is also 97 mins and a comparison of the BFI print to that version revealed that 11.5 seconds was removed from the BFI print in line with the British Board of Film Classification recommendations at the time of its release - a few shots within the climatic assault scene.
You might also be interested in this blu-ray.com forum discussion which indicates that Warners may finally be releasing LAST SUMMER next year:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=388717
Let’s all hope this is true - it’s a great film and deserves to be seen.
Good luck and best regards,
Geoffrey M. Badger
LostReels.co.uk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostReelsUK
Hi this is Geoff at Lost Reels and I had posted some information on this print on the Criterion forum and I also replied to Shane Rollins when he emailed me but he hasn't posted my responses here as yet. The information on the BFI print is publicly available on the BFI collections site but to re-iterate here, it's 8728 feet, which is just a few seconds shy of 97 minutes and from my comparisons is exactly the same as the US VHS 'R' version except it has a further 11.5 seconds of cuts (8 shots either removed or shortened) during the assault scene. These correspond to the information provided by the BBFC. All the information we have points to this being an original UK release print (including the UK BBFC certificate at the beginning).
There's an interesting difference in the music over the end titles which is replaced with a vocal version of the "Last Summer Theme" by John Simon and a vocal track by Susan Shirley. I prefer the instrumental version I've seen on US versions for what it's worth. An extra title card is added to the BFI print to give a credit for the lyrics and vocals.
The absence of prints is real but not as legendary as the LA Times article in 2012 led everyone to believe. I personally own a 16mm TV print that showed up on eBay earlier this year. It's the TV cut and quite red, but no-one else bid on it and I acquired it for £40. This print (from Lorimar) has many many dialogue cuts and the final scene is almost unintelligible, but it also has an EXTRA scene of over 3 minutes duration featuring Ralph Waite. This appears when Peter (Richard Thomas) returns to his home after the cinema scene to find his father (Ralph Waite) drunk and laid out in the street. Peter takes him inside to put him to bed and grieves for his father being such an alcoholic. This scene somewhat breaks the 'spell' of the isolation of the kids from the adults so I feel it detracts from the story, but it's interesting. I've been meaning to post a scan of this onto my YouTube channel but have been busy with other things.
Always open to discussion and questions on this film and I'm delighted a real release may soon be happening. My direct contact info is info@lostreels.co.uk. |
So this here is yet a fifth and sixth confirmed versions of the film, after the three US cuts and the infamous Australian print.
As for the deleted scene, there were originally 9-12 more minutes of deleted scenes. They're listed on at least one other website (I forget which one), but they were all considered lost. (So the original original runtime was somewhere in the 105-108 range, but that cut never even made it to the MPAA or BBFC (was it even called that then?), and Perry himself made the cuts.) So definitely scan and upload that scene, and see if it can be included in some capacity in the home video release.
So now we have...
1. US X-rated cut (97 minutes)
2. US R-rated cut (95 minutes)
3. US PG-rated cut (?? minutes)
4. Australian 16mm print (?? minutes)
5. UK theatrical cut (96-ish minutes)
6. Lorimar TV Cut (?? minutes)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSimms
Yikes. I regret summoning you here, Shane. If only I’d known you hate this film…
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Vader
For a movie you profess to hate with a passion, you've not only watched it repeatedly but are thoroughly invested in its history.
Weird.
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No need to regret bringing me here, BobSimms. I'm not that much of a jerk/troll/threadcrapper. Yes, it's true I don't really like Last Summer. But that's not why I'm here. This is a highly demanded, highly sought-after film, a film which, until mere days ago, we thought the best surviving copy was on a forty-year-old VHS tape. And it wasn't even a good tape at that! (That upload I posted of the X-rated cut, which is a rip of the 1985 VHS, is bad, but I know tapes and tape capture tech enough to know the real tape isn't much better.) This is going to be a win regardless of what the few who don't like the film think.
It's not the only film I think little of that I'm deeply invested in. Around The World In 80 Days is a technically marvelous but cinematically weaker film - I just said in another thread that The Ten Commandments was likely the real best picture of that year - but I'm still chomping at the bit to own it on Blu-ray or 4K. Gone With The Wind is a film that disappointed me and still does, due to its weak plot (to whoever I talked with in the WAC thread, I like it more than before, but I can't honestly pretend I like it as much as you guys do), its unlikable characters, and a situation where I can truly find no one and nothing to root for. Yet I'm one of the most vocal people calling for a 4K of GWTW, and I know every single thing that needs to be done to that film to ensure a 4K finally captures the original look, sound, and feel of that film on home video.
In terms of movies that are truly terrible, movies that completely fail in almost every aspect of entertainment, one that instantly comes to mind is 1998's Lost In Space, and that film likely takes up more space in my head than most others, due partially to the knowledge that it could've easily been a masterpiece had it not been sabotaged at every turn by utterly stupid decisions made by the crew and the brass.
In terms of films I hate, Pasolini's Salo is likely the one I hate the most. I watched it once, hated it, never watched it again, and the more people tell me how great it is, the more I loathe it. One, I never took it as a chance to shoot others down, since like Last Summer, it's clear that I'm very outnumbered, and those who enjoy the film should be allowed to see and enjoy it. And as soon as rumors came out that Salo had been destroyed by a new color grade, the current Blu-ray shot to the top of my shopping list.
Unlike Salo, though, Last Summer had no solid releases, so if people who like the film wanted to watch it, their choices were a cut TCM broadcast, boots, and ancient home video releases.
When Last Summer drops, I plan on purchasing it. I also plan on watching it. Sure I won't enjoy the film itself, but I'd love to see how the film looks and sounds after it's been fully restored. And besides, a release like this - of a film that very nearly could've been lost or unreleased - is something that needs to be rewarded, whether you're one of the many who like it, or one of the few who doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSimms
The Warner Archive Blu-ray will be fantastic, and I don't know where you heard that the negative had been cut down a PG edit, but it doesn’t feel very plausible that that’s what would get released by George at WA. They managed to locate the OCN, which had the final reel missing, and then they found the final reel. I for one could do with a lot less wild speculation about how compromised it is.
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There were tons of different theories about what elements existed and how they were conformed. The only elements we're sure of are the screwed-up Australian print, the Lost Reels print, and some OCN that's in Warner Bros.' vaults. (Though to disclaim WB, and hopefully take a target off of their heads, another Allied Artists film, Cabaret, had a negative that was missing by the late 80s and as of 2013 remained so, suggesting that this is either an AA problem or a Lorimar problem, since two fairly recent films and very popular films from the same studio having elements loss is not a coincidence.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjg
Wish they could find Frank Perry’s original cut of The Swimmer. God I’d kill for that.
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I never even knew there was an original cut of The Swimmer. I'll have to look into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Energy Crisis
They clarified a couple months ago at criterionforum. It's a UK release print from BFI with 11.5 seconds of BBFC cuts compared to the US VHS.
As for a release from WAC, I'll believe it when I see it. They've been saying variations of the same thing on Facebook for a loooooooooooong time.
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Indeed, WAC has teased Last Summer for a while, but in recent years, I kept hearing variations of "we see the demand, we want to do it, but what we have is so bad that if we did it, the release would be truly terrible", hence no release.
I've alternately heard that the neg was either completely lost or severely cut; that the last reel was missing from either the neg, the only 35mm print, or the only 16mm print; that each better generation was further and further cut; that only the R-rated cut survived in poor form and the X-rated cut was completely lost; that the Key VHS was the R-rated cut (this is one of only two rumors I've been able to swat down); and that there was a 16mm print in Australia that was completely uncut (the other of the two rumors I've been able to swat down).
To add insult to injury, most people who "know" what happened to the film are just idiots on the internet quoting other idiots on the internet, all the way up to the top idiots whose "insider sources" told them any of those rumors I listed above. And I'm just the next guy in line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSimms
It would be nice, I suppose, if this topic came up on an episode of The Extras podcast soon and George filled in some blanks, if only to quash rampant speculation and naysaying. I need something to live for, for god’s sake.
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Absolutely. Geoff's statement is by far the single best, most correct statement on this film. While GF would likely know more - not for any reason other than his company owns the film and likely the best surviving elements - unless and until GF says something, Geoff should be given the most credence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorBlu
Sorry for delayed response, I only just saw this now.
Just checked, the recording is 105 mins (the full timeslot) but the movie ends around 95 mins.
The movie is in fullscreen, but looks good considering.
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So there is a two-cut R and X boot, and there is a 95-minute rip online. Both the boot and the rip are likely from the TCM broadcast. Having just watched that the other night (and I stupidly forgot to compare the two cuts, which I now have to do), it's a rather homogeneous presentation, likely taken from at least a very good 35mm theatrical print of the R-rated cut.
I haven't yet purchased the R and X boot, but the creator told me that the final scene was sourced from the VHS, but didn't make clear whether it was a complete switch to the tape, or whether the tape just jumped in to pick up the gaps in the R-rated footage.
The fullscreen thing is likely an open matte presentation of the film. It doesn't look especially opened up, but it's significantly more likely than a pan-and-scan presentation on TCM in recent years. Perhaps - and this is just a theory - perhaps this is the print that was scanned for the DVD, which was confirmed to be happening in 2005, before the shit began to hit the fan.
With all but 11 seconds of Last Summer confirmed to exist on 35mm film, this really advances the ball for a home video release. One of two questions I have would be what do they do with the end of the film? Do they just spike the completely uncut ending? Do they include it as a special feature, either completely from the tape or reconstructed from both the film and the tape? Do they put out a seamless branching option presenting the original ending as part of the film? Is it possible there's yet another film source out there?
And the other question would be will they include the R and PG recuts of the film, since they are after all part of this film's history.
I posited that WB should restore what they have, upscale the tape for the missing footage, draw a line in the sand, and if something good didn't happen by X, print what they had. This is the something good I was referring to.
I'd love to hear more from Geoff about this film, and I really hope GF and the WAC and Extras teams discuss Last Summer in an upcoming podcast, since it's clear that at long last, there is movement on this film.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV2693
Don’t get your hopes up, a few lines of dialogue on social media doesn’t mean much.
I’ll believe it when the blu ray is up for preorder.
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If you need more proof of this, just remember one of the oft-quoted lines of the film and physical media communities: "My insider sources told me that The Abyss is coming soon to Blu-ray!"
It took fifteen tries to get it right.
So while I do believe there's movement on Last Summer, I too will believe it when I'm holding a copy of the film in my hands (and not one that costs $400 and comes in a blue box either).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Areyakiddin
It'd be pretty unusual for George/Warner Archive to definitely say a release is coming and then end up canceling it. They've been pretty tight-lipped about future releases (past the next month's sale) since all the problems that arose in 2020-2022, unless they definitely know it's coming pretty soon.
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Per George Feltenstein, it happened a lot in the burner DVD says (so 2009-2012). He or someone else or WAC would say "X is coming out", something would happen, the release would fall through for one reason or another, and the instant response was "Well you said X was coming, why would you say that if it wasn't?" And after that happened enough times, they just stopped promising titles until they were so far along that there was no stopping them. He didn't name titles, but I'm sure they can be looked up.
He also didn't specifically mention Last Summer, but considering there's a post from 2010 mentioning that it's "coming soon", I can't imagine that this title wasn't one of the announced but never released titles, if not the primary one.
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