Napoléon 4K UHD (1927) Abel Gance - Grande Version • Potemkine. pre-order

[vinvanveen]

This is super exciting! I'll wait with preordering just on the off-chance that some US version gets released but I'll keep my eye out for this

[Togusa]

Originally Posted by Jr7936

now will any online stores in the USA, get this for preorder, since if so I am all over it

You can order directly with fnac.com, they are liable, and amazon.fr of course, also Potemkine website but shipping must be expensive.

[Jr7936]

I know but since tarrifs might be in effect then and the de minimus of no charge on $800 or less going away at end of august,
Might not be smart to order from france by then

Originally Posted by Togusa

You can order directly with fnac.com, they are liable, and amazon.fr of course, also Potemkine website but shipping must be expensive.

[Deciazulado]

I ordered from amz.fr since I had a batch waiting for a "last ship", to save on s/H. Napoleon of course will "sail" in 3-4 months.

So it comes at ~$110 + 20 S/H if I use it as percentage-wise of the shipping, but as S/H shared per item in the bundle, it came to $5 S/H each, for $115. We'll see what happens then. The T should be between $15-$20. What I'm wondering is if Amazon will start charging like they do with state tax, or will DHL/UPS/USPS/Fedex will now have lots of paperwork to do and deliver.

[Show spoiler]

Amazing Amazon Box - YouTube

[Mariah007]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

This is unlikely to get a physical release outside of France, because Netflix owns the rights to this restoration everywhere else. They actually financed it alongside the French National Film Board.

Also, yes they did blur the edges of the frame. Here's a picture from the Paris premiere, more here. Even on a big screen it's somewhat distracting.

That's what's distracting?
How can anyone watch a movie when there's a whole orchestra in front of them?

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

^ are you gonna change it to widescreen when it comes out?

[Show spoiler]


Will the disc have the 3 panels on their own in a bonus feature, like a previous disc.
You could then make a 8K 2160p x 8640 version of the triptych


Widescreen monitors like the 5K 45" Scope LG OLED and others like it with HDR reds and blues would be the perfect fit to watch it, at the proper Radius distance!

going from this:


to this for the triptych widescreen finale:



just like in the Cinema






Napoléon 4K Blu-ray

James Cameron isn't the only one who can remaster an avatar, so yes, probably.

[r32]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

I ordered from amz.fr since I had a batch waiting for a "last ship", to save on s/H. Napoleon of course will "sail" in 3-4 months.

So it comes at ~$110 + 20 S/H if I use it as percentage-wise of the shipping, but as S/H shared per item in the bundle, it came to $5 S/H each, for $115. We'll see what happens then. The T should be between $15-$20. What I'm wondering is if Amazon will start charging like they do with state tax, or will DHL/UPS/USPS/Fedex will now have lots of paperwork to do and deliver.

[Show spoiler]Amazing Amazon Box - YouTube

When ordering from Amazon fr or it from oversea nowadays, the maximum quantity is 3 items only which get the advantage on shipping.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by r32

When ordering from Amazon fr or it from oversea nowadays, the maximum quantity is 3 items only which get the advantage on shipping.

? Maybe ordering from your location is different?

I mean in my case that when ordering from overseas Amazons (EU/UK/JP) what I do is I accumulate discs I'd like or want on the "basket" over time, instead of ordering a movie when it comes out (or I see it on Amazon). Then when I have a bunch and/or when along comes out a juicy pre-order (like this), instead of having ordered them one by one with the high shipping (like for Amazon Global Express 2-day lets say $20 for 1 item), now I have 4 or 5 items, so shipping goes something like this (made up example): 1 = $20 total, 2 =$23, 3 = $25, 4 = $26, 5 = $26.50, 6 = $26.75, 7 = $27 total, etc; so now for only $7 more I can have all shipped, S/H costing less than $4 each in this "example", instead of $20 each individually for 2-day service. And the pre-order's s/h is included on that savings, but of course it ships later when it's out (with the savings on shipping) and arrives 2 days or whatever after it's released.

I have not seen a maximum amount of items on things to order except for the basket's limit of 50? I mean I have ordered more than 4 items. If you meant you can only order a max of 3 copies per item, that's not what I'm doing.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by qw0aszx

I remember this new restoration added the digital blur to the edges of image for the whole film to emulate some kind of film print projection and causing the loss of information, that's quite distracting for me.

I made this comparative framing image to show the diference:

[hipsofjw]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

I made this comparative framing image to show the diference:

That's pretty crazy. Not sure I've ever seen anything quite like it. Reminds me of windowboxing for CRT overscan. Has the restoration team written anything to justify this decision?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by hipsofjw

Reminds me of windowboxing for CRT overscan.

It would be pertinent to know which of the two is closer to what would be the 1.33 "Projector Aperture", tho in that time the "PA" probably was a variable a little undefined. Maybe that's what they're trying to recreate; as the aperture may been "unfixed", they do that undefined dimension by using "fading" edges. But then they should be square? And then the other one, showing the full "Camera Aperture"? (But of course if it did that, you'd probably see hard rounded edges in the 12 corners on that one).

Now this happens in lots of transfers, even today, as example, digital 2K projection 1.85 is 1080p x 1998 pixels. When you see it on disc, is that resized 4% to 1038p x 1920 1.85, cropped 4% to 1038p x 1920 1.85, or a combination of the two?

The difference between the extra area in a film's Camera Aperture and the Projector Aperture is ~ also that %. SMPTE also allowed a 5% further cropping in film projection from the Projector Aperture (tho max of 3% recommended) for a total near 10% from (or 7%) what the Camera (aperture) exposed.

For example here's that on Academy Sound 1.37:

[Show spoiler]

Don't have the diagram like that for Silent 1.33 handy, but I have this:

black 1.33 Camera Aperture
red 1.33 Projector Aperture

or in this case

The difference between the blue area's width and the sepia's width on the composited pic above, is ~3%

So to check that and be certain, you'd have to compare with scans or reproductions of the frames with the sprockets to determine the dimensions shown.

[Show spoiler]
secret deci: Measure the center panel width and divide by 1.33 for the height: 637/1.33=478pixels tall

<––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 637 wide ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––>

^ white is 478 tall 1.33

and multiply by 4 for the width (3 frames x 1.33 = 4). 478 x 4 = 1911pixels wide (by 478 tall).


The blue height is about 466 pixels (= 1.37), the sepia height is about (it's fading) 443pixels = 1.43
The blue is 1907 pixels wide in the composite, the sepia is 1845.

You might have to account for camera overlap when they touch the sides, like they did in 3-panel CINERAMA but if that happens that geometrically should result in a narrower than 1.33 panel, if it changed, not wider. .

I, of course, want to see The Full Monty

[vinvanveen]

Meh, I can always cancel. Preordered. For a small fortune.

[Deciazulado]

Well it's 7+ hours, I think @18fps? What frame speed was the BFI? to compare true lengths.


Edit: Checking running times and meter lengths mentioned in various places, seems the new French UHD restoration is an hour longer at the same speed. (post in the UK BFI Napoleon BD thread).

.

[vinvanveen]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Well it's 7+ hours, I think @18fps? What frame speed was the BFI? to compare true lengths.

It's a 5-disk set, with two 4k and three BD disks. I assume the film will be spread over the two 4k disks.

Forgive my ignorance, but are 4k players even able to play at 18fps? Or will it rely on interpolation?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by vinvanveen

Forgive my ignorance, but are 4k players even able to play at 18fps? Or will it rely on interpolation?

UHDs can be 24/25/50/60 frames per second

They do other frame rates inside a fixed frame rate by repeat frames (or there are digital tools that can "manipulate" the speed and "print" to a new rate. Most TVs have them to "smooth motion" or make slower rates look as faster rates, or the "live" look) (which is just higher number frame rates, nothing to do with soap or opera, tho people associate it with them.)

I just made a post on the NapBFI thread about length/speed.

(I also made one of different frame rates examples of them with videos a long time ago, maybe in the second Avatar or Avatar 3-D threads as that movie was 48fps.)

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by vinvanveen

It's a 5-disk set, with two 4k and three BD disks. I assume the film will be spread over the two 4k disks.

Forgive my ignorance, but are 4k players even able to play at 18fps? Or will it rely on interpolation?

Older films that run at sub 24fps are still included in 24 (or 25) fps containers padded with duplicate frames, for compatibility reasons. It sounds worse than it is, if it's handled well you shouldn't be able to notice it.

[Krynoid-Man]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

This is unlikely to get a physical release outside of France, because Netflix owns the rights to this restoration everywhere else. They actually financed it alongside the French National Film Board.

I could see Criterion potentially releasing it at some point, since they have put out physical releases of Netflix exclusives previously

[Akibiyori]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

It sounds worse than it is, if it's handled well you shouldn't be able to notice it.

You DO notice it because it’s always there and you can’t do anything about it.

Interlacing, on the other hand, with proper equipment actually IS invisible and plays back smoothly. We can’t have that anymore though, it’s impossible with 4K.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Akibiyori

You DO notice it because it’s always there and you can’t do anything about it.

Interlacing, on the other hand, with proper equipment actually IS invisible and plays back smoothly. We can’t have that anymore though, it’s impossible with 4K.

Interlacing is/was 60i 1080* (60 interlaced fields (Fields are half frames, effectively frames with half the lines, 540, with 540 empty spaces or "black lines" in between those 540 picture line fields alternating position 60 times a second (60Hz) (50Hz PAL) )

*(486/576 on NTSC/PAL)

In other words:

Field 1, first 1/60th of a second-
Line 1 picture
Line 2 empty
Line 3 picture
Line 4 empty
etc.

Field 2, second 1/60th of a second-
Line 1 empty
Line 2 picture
Line 3 empty
Line 4 picture
etc.

(for PAL countries, each 1/50th of a second or 50Hz)

instead of a full 1080 line frame every 60th of a second (or 50th).


UHD can do 60p and 50p, or 60 full frames per second and 50 fps, a full 2160 line frame every 60th of a second (or 50th).

Gemini Man 4K and Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4K are 2 examples of 60 frame per second movies with 2160p60 4K UHDs

So theoretically UHD can reproduce NTSC/PAL/HDTV/BD's 50/60Hz interlace 2 ways:

They could encode the interlaced 60i pull downs by making each of the 60 (or 50) progressive frames of the 60/50 interlace video on the disc be half frames: For 2160, insert alternating 1080 black lines between 1080 picture lines making each of the individual 1/60th 2160p frames be effectively a simulated 2160i60 interlace field.

Or they could do what all HDTV's de-interlacers do when presented with an 60i/50i HDTV transmision or disc: deinterlace it and present it to the progressive HDTV panel as deinterlaced progressive frames, but already done in the disc. All HDTVs do this as they are all progressive panel TVs: you see all your interlaced discs, videocamera video and TV broadcasts as 60p or 50p on your TV and computer monitors. And if your computer monitor is set at 60Hz refresh rate or 72Hz, 120Hz, etc. and you watch a video on the internet like a youtube video and the video is not at your refresh rate (I've seen tubes at 24/25/30/50/60 and others) you computer/monitor is changing their display rate (not their speed) on the fly to fit on your monitor's refreshing rate.

So they could do this in the studio beforehand and master interlaced material into progressive 60p/50p UHD discs with their professional deinterlacers and have that on the disc instead of your HDTV doing it.
Or better yet they could use the digital tools to translate the true "progressive" film frames at the different film rate directly into the 60p rate container without having to interlace them first, and having them have to be deinterlaced back to progressive a second time.

When I saw this announced that's one of the first things I wondered if it could be a 60p disc to deal better with the frame rate issue.
If it was a 20fps movie each frame would be repeated 3 times and look exactly like in 20fps.
For 18fps into 60p, you can do:

111222333344455566667778889999 etc. with the 3-repeat frames total lasting 0.050 seconds and the 4-repeat frames 0.066 seconds, (a difference of 0.016 sec, 1/60th of a second) instead of the 18fps' 0.056 seconds each.
or
111222333(3+4)444555666(6+7)777888999(9+10) etc.
the (A+B) blended frames (lasting the visual equivalent of 0.058 sec) would look like like a 1/60th of a second dissolve frame smooth transition, taking the place of having an interlace field from one film frame and the other interlaced field from the next frame interpolated (estimated) onto a frame inserted on the fly by a TV de-interlacer .

(Only a true interlaced TV like a CRT would display the "A" field first then the next field "B" 1/60th of a second latter without displaying both simultaneously as a Venetian blind frame ("combed") from interlaced material without creating a new in between frame. But if you look closely you could see the combing with movement even on a true interlaced CRT TV)

They could just do that, create a new interpolated true transition frame digitally directly, or film rates, instead of a simple "blended" frame (dissolved) transition or one estimated by a deinterlacer, at more expense and time but I think the 1/60th of a second micro-dissolve would be enough, you know, with persistence of vision and all that jazz, and be more "authentic".


We are not getting 18fps or 54p/72p discs/disc players or VFR/VRR anytime soon.

[Doomhunter]

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