Epson HC1080UB vs. Panasonic PT-AE3000

[Oddiophile]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Where did you get the pre-order for $2,499? Projector People has it for $2,799 after rebate.

PM'ed you.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

The new crop of projectors have a lot more going for them then just improved contrast ratios.

As you have stated the Epson 6500UB does have the Reon HQV processor, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation if you like that super smooth look. The 6500UB does have an improved contrast ratio of 75,000:1, new ultra black technology, is quieter then last years model, and it's new e-torl lamp is rated at 4,000 hours compared to 3,000 on the 1080UB. I just go my pre-order in today for the 6500UB for $2499 after the rebates.


The Panasonic also has a better contrast ratio then last years model rated at 60,000:1, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation, improvement were made on the AE3000 to limit dust blobs that so Meany users were reporting on the AE2000. Probably the AE3000 biggest selling point is it's lens memory that lets you zoom in and out at the push of a button for a cinema scope 2:35 screen. Projector People was offering the AE3000 for $2300 for a thanksgiving/cyber Monday sale.

Like I said, IF price is a consideration you will find better deals on last years models.

The improved CR is probably just marketing hype and the 120Hz feature is a feature that some may like but many dislike it. Personally I think 120Hz motion interpolation gives film a cheap video look.

[Schrute Farms]

Originally Posted by CraigW

The improved CR is probably just marketing hype and the 120Hz feature is a feature that some may like but many dislike it. Personally I think 120Hz motion interpolation gives film a cheap video look.

I agree. If the projector doesn't have the option to turn off the 120Hz motion, then I won't buy it.

[Oddiophile]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Like I said, IF price is a consideration you will find better deals on last years models.

Personally I would pass on getting last years leftovers considering next years new models offer a lot of new features and improved picture quality over last years models for only a few bucks more. The bang for the buck ratio on the new models is threw the roof.

The improved CR is probably just marketing hype

Marketing hype? Do I smell a noob?

Advertised contract numbers are mostly hype... mostly.

The big numbers you see like 30,000:1, 60,000:1, 75,000:1, Etc. Are the manufacturers rated on/off contract numbers. this is what the projector can do from it's blackest black to it's whitest white. Most manufacturers rate this number as the best case scenario of what the product can do, like the AE3000 can do it's rated 60,000:1 contrast ratio in dynamic mode but it's so bight and the colors so far off it's unwatchable. What you want to pay attention to is what the projector can do calibrated to the D65 standard. The AE3000 may be rated at 60,000:1 but @ D65 it can only do about 13,000:1. Last years AE2000 was rated at 16,000:1 but at D65 only did around 8,000:1.


ANSI contrast is another important number to fallow. It is the most contrast achievable in a single frame, the more ANSI contrast the more depth or 3D the picture looks. These are the smaller numbers like 200:1, 400:1, DLP projectors have that 3D look because of they are achievable of alot of ANSI contrast but thanks to the Panasonic AE3000, Epson 6500UB, LCD has now caught up to DLP in ANSI contrast. Lots of new AE3000 owners have been raving about the Panny's 3D look because of its increase from 305:1 on the AE2000 to an unheard of 446:1 on an LCD projector .

There is also native contrast, what the projector can do on it's own without any optical tricks like a dynamic Iris. And Dynamic contrast, what a projector can do with it's dynamic iris on. Like the Epson 6500UB is rated at 6,000:1 native contrast, 75,000:1 with the dynamic iris on. The JVC projectors are unique that they can do as much as 50,000:1 (RS20) without a dynamic iris, all native contrast. What this means for the JVC's is you don't have any of the side effects of a dynamic iris like, pumping, brightness compression, artifacts, Etc.

and the 120Hz feature is a feature that some may like but many dislike it. Personally I think 120Hz motion interpolation gives film a cheap video look.

Then don't use it with 24fp material.

I want it for video, I watch a lot of Discover HD Theater. American Choppers and Street Customs with frame interpolation should be fun.

Originally Posted by Schrute Farms

I agree. If the projector doesn't have the option to turn off the 120Hz motion, then I won't buy it.

At this point only the Panasonic AE3000, Epson 6500UB/7500UB, and Sanyo PLV-Z3000, have frame interpolation, and all of them have the option to turn frame interpolation off.

EDIT,
The Sony VW70/80 & VW200 also have whats called 120Hz dark frame insertion, it's similar to Frame interpolation but has a different look.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

Marketing hype? Do I smell a noob?

Who you calling noob? Sounds to me like you are an overexcited fan. If you want to be taken seriously here stop hurling insults at members who disagree with you. The thread was asking for opinions on 1080UB vs. the newer AE3000. I simply stated mine. No need to be a another faceless jerk on a message board.

I have had a projector in my HT setup for over 5 years.

If you like new offerings fine, but again unless you really need the new features I would save the money. CR is spec'd at dynamic settings way off of ideal film viewing settings. A 50k:1 projector versus a 75k:1 projector calibrated to ideal film settings may have a slightly better measured CR ratio, but ask a viewer to pick out which projector(400:1 ANSI vs 500:1) has a better CR when viewed and they can't do it.

Again if Epson is still seling the 1080UB ($2649 - $300 rebate, $2349 and a free bulb), the 1080UB is the deal.

[derelicte]

I've never used or seen the Epson 1080UB in action - but I DO own the Panny 2000U ... and LOVE it. From what I've read, the 3000 only improves on it. Personally, I like the look of the Panny better too - the centered lens, the boxy shape - it looks like it means business (though that has zero bearing on it's performance ).

Anyhoo - I have no doubt that whichever you choose, you'll be more than happy with it. (but go with the Panny )

[Neo42]

I am interested in the 6500 UB, can someone give me more info on the special pre-order price?

[Oddiophile]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Who you calling noob? Sounds to me like you are an overexcited fan. If you want to be taken seriously here stop hurling insults at members who disagree with you. The thread was asking for opinions on 1080UB vs. the newer AE3000. I simply stated mine. No need to be a another faceless jerk on a message board.

Damn son, simmer down, it was a joke.



Relax,



have a coke and a smile.




By the way I am a fanboy of nothing.
Technology get's cheaper and better every year, I just think your selling your self short my buying last years leftovers. This years crop of projectors are so good they would have been in the 10K range only a few years ago.

CR is spec'd at dynamic settings way off of ideal film viewing settings. A 50k:1 projector versus a 75k:1 projector calibrated to ideal film settings may have a slightly better measured CR ratio, but ask a viewer to pick out which projector(400:1 ANSI vs 500:1) has a better CR when viewed and they can't do it.

Can you see a difference in depth between a DLP projector and an LCD projector?

Sure you can, and it's only a difference of around 100ish more ANSI contrast on the DLP. You can easily see changes in ANSI contrast, this will be the first thing your will notice because ANSI is effecting a single frame of film unlike on/off that is effecting an entire range. It does get to a point were on/off and ANSI get so high that you have to have Hugh increases to see it. Once you get over 100,000:1 on/off & 1,000:1 ANSI contrast, numbers become meaning less, you have to have huge gains to see a difference in more.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

Damn son, simmer down, it was a joke.



Relax,



have a coke and a smile.

did you come up with that all on your own? you must be so proud of yourself. calling someone a noob is usually a touchy subject. you just don't like the fact that someone called you on it.

There is nothing 'left over' about last years projectors. Especially the Epson. In the current economic climate I think it may make more sense to go for the better value over paying for the latest and greatest.

I only paid $2799 for the Pro1080UB (with a mount and extra bulb) last year when others were paying the same for the home version.

Again I never said to YOU, to buy last years version. The starting post in this thread was not from you. Enjoy your 6500, but don't try and make yourself feel superior by slamming others and their equipment.

If Blu-ray is your primary source, this blu-ray.com afterall, the 1080UB fully supports 1080p24. After using HD sources primarily I can't stand to watch SD on the big screen. Why would anyone want to blow up 480 content after using 1080 content is beyond me. That is really the only reason you would need the HQV. The PixelWorks chip in the 1080 does an adequate job for the little I watch SD.

[TimGraf]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

The new crop of projectors have a lot more going for them then just improved contrast ratios.

As you have stated the Epson 6500UB does have the Reon HQV processor, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation if you like that super smooth look. The 6500UB does have an improved contrast ratio of 75,000:1, new ultra black technology, is quieter then last years model, and it's new e-torl lamp is rated at 4,000 hours compared to 3,000 on the 1080UB. I just go my pre-order in today for the 6500UB for $2499 after the rebates.


The Panasonic also has a better contrast ratio then last years model rated at 60,000:1, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation, improvement were made on the AE3000 to limit dust blobs that so Meany users were reporting on the AE2000. Probably the AE3000 biggest selling point is it's lens memory that lets you zoom in and out at the push of a button for a cinema scope 2:35 screen. Projector People was offering the AE3000 for $2300 for a thanksgiving/cyber Monday sale.

Panasonic obviously did not resolve the dust issues. I've owned the Panasonic PT-AE3000U for less that a month and I have three dust blobs now. We do not, by any means, live in a very dusty environment, Northern California, new condo, very well climate controlled. I am very impressed with the projector over all but the dust blob issues are serious and real. In dark scenes they are very visible. I am so completely pissed off right now for spending this much money on a projector and having this sort of issue so soon. I have owned three projectors before this one and only one, very low end projector, had dust issues.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by TimGraf

Panasonic obviously did not resolve the dust issues.

What did the customer service rep said when you called them about the dust blobs?


fuad

[Oddiophile]

Originally Posted by CraigW

did you come up with that all on your own? you must be so proud of yourself. calling someone a noob is usually a touchy subject. you just don't like the fact that someone called you on it.

There is nothing 'left over' about last years projectors. Especially the Epson. In the current economic climate I think it may make more sense to go for the better value over paying for the latest and greatest.

I only paid $2799 for the Pro1080UB (with a mount and extra bulb) last year when others were paying the same for the home version.

Again I never said to YOU, to buy last years version. The starting post in this thread was not from you. Enjoy your 6500, but don't try and make yourself feel superior by slamming others and their equipment.

If Blu-ray is your primary source, this blu-ray.com afterall, the 1080UB fully supports 1080p24. After using HD sources primarily I can't stand to watch SD on the big screen. Why would anyone want to blow up 480 content after using 1080 content is beyond me. That is really the only reason you would need the HQV. The PixelWorks chip in the 1080 does an adequate job for the little I watch SD.

Actually "Have a coke and a smile" was Cokes slogan from the mid 80's but you weren't probably even born yet to know it.

Seriously dude, you need to grow a thicker skin and not take everything so seriously. Lighten up.


The only reason I don't want to recommend the 1080UB is because of it's known problems.

Noisy cooling fan, dust blobs, and loud auto iris. The 1080 also had quality control problems, with a high number of units having to be returned but that problem was fixed mid production '08.


I recommend the 6500UB/7500UB because these problem were addressed. That's not to say they were all fixed, units have just started shipping last week. The 6500UB's case redesign was done to accommodate a bigger better air filter to stop dust blobs, The 6500UB now has three quite cooling fans and not just one loud fan, and the motor on the iris was changed to a quieter unit. So far reports are the cooling fan is a little quieter then the 1080UB but still audible during quite scenes, the iris can only be heard from about a foot away from the unit, and no one is sure if Epson completely fixed the dust blobs issue yet because that is a problem that takes a few months to show it's self.

If you can live with these problems on the 1080UB and only care about saving a buck then by all means go ahead and buy one. Good luck


And by the way the 6500UB has both the Pixelworks chip and the Reon chip on board. The Pixelworks is used for video scaling, and the Reon for advanced features like, mosquito noise reduction, image sharpening, frame interpolation, etc.



If you have anymore assumptions or questions, feel free to ask my young Padawan.

[Oddiophile]

Originally Posted by TimGraf

Panasonic obviously did not resolve the dust issues. I've owned the Panasonic PT-AE3000U for less that a month and I have three dust blobs now. We do not, by any means, live in a very dusty environment, Northern California, new condo, very well climate controlled. I am very impressed with the projector over all but the dust blob issues are serious and real. In dark scenes they are very visible. I am so completely pissed off right now for spending this much money on a projector and having this sort of issue so soon. I have owned three projectors before this one and only one, very low end projector, had dust issues.

Panasonic is aware that they had a dust blob issue on the AE2000 and did say they addressed it on the AE3000. But it's really not Panasonic's fault if it's still doing it. LCD projectors have to have an open pathway so it's very easy for dust to get inside, without closing the pathway there is probably no way to grantee not to get dust blobs.

One advantage to LCOS, DILA, SXRD is that LCOS can have a sealed pathway so dust blobs are not an issue.

[ryoohki]

The only way to not have dust blob on LCD is Sealed Pathway and it doesn't exist right now. I had some on my AE500 but never really saw them until they was enought in there. Didn't have one in my Z2000 but it run only for 500 hours.

Btw the 6500 seem to have it's 4:4 and Interpolation Broken. Check projector reviews blog for it. You can't enable either of them with 24fps on... witch is disapointing a little... it cause a lot of artefact..

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

Actually "Have a coke and a smile" was Cokes slogan from the mid 80's but you weren't probably even born yet to know it.

Seriously dude, you need to grow a thicker skin and not take everything so seriously. Lighten up.


The only reason I don't want to recommend the 1080UB is because of it's known problems.

Noisy cooling fan, dust blobs, and loud auto iris. The 1080 also had quality control problems, with a high number of units having to be returned but that problem was fixed mid production '08.


I recommend the 6500UB/7500UB because these problem were addressed. That's not to say they were all fixed, units have just started shipping last week. The 6500UB's case redesign was done to accommodate a bigger better air filter to stop dust blobs, The 6500UB now has three quite cooling fans and not just one loud fan, and the motor on the iris was changed to a quieter unit. So far reports are the cooling fan is a little quieter then the 1080UB but still audible during quite scenes, the iris can only be heard from about a foot away from the unit, and no one is sure if Epson completely fixed the dust blobs issue yet because that is a problem that takes a few months to show it's self.

If you can live with these problems on the 1080UB and only care about saving a buck then by all means go ahead and buy one. Good luck


And by the way the 6500UB has both the Pixelworks chip and the Reon chip on board. The Pixelworks is used for video scaling, and the Reon for advanced features like, mosquito noise reduction, image sharpening, frame interpolation, etc.



If you have anymore assumptions or questions, feel free to ask my young Padawan.

Like I said 'another faceless' jerkoff on the net.

I need to grow a thicker skin... you sure don't like the fact I called you on your post.

I know where the phrase came from, but you sure seem to think you were original in your smugness.

And those problems you name on the 1080UB were all pointed out by anal retentive users on the forums. Just don't forget that the 6500/7500 are the latest flavor of the month and soon you will hear the issues from the anal users. I have no issues with mine.

BTW... how old are you with the adolescent star wars references?

[wanghnj]

Originally Posted by Oddiophile

The new crop of projectors have a lot more going for them then just improved contrast ratios.

As you have stated the Epson 6500UB does have the Reon HQV processor, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation if you like that super smooth look. The 6500UB does have an improved contrast ratio of 75,000:1, new ultra black technology, is quieter then last years model, and it's new e-torl lamp is rated at 4,000 hours compared to 3,000 on the 1080UB. I just go my pre-order in today for the 6500UB for $2499 after the rebates.


The Panasonic also has a better contrast ratio then last years model rated at 60,000:1, it also does 120Hz frame interpolation, improvement were made on the AE3000 to limit dust blobs that so Meany users were reporting on the AE2000. Probably the AE3000 biggest selling point is it's lens memory that lets you zoom in and out at the push of a button for a cinema scope 2:35 screen. Projector People was offering the AE3000 for $2300 for a thanksgiving/cyber Monday sale.

Where did you get the pre-order for $2,499? Visualapex has it for $2,699 after $300 rebate.thx