Why don't you see BD with Dolby Digital +

[American Baron]

Originally Posted by love4blu

I am not a native speaker of English, but I never liked dubbing . I always believed that with maybe the exception of some cases (like cartoons) it takes away a critical aspect of the original acting that sometimes it's hard or even impossible to compensate for.
And yes, I also feel bad when I don't have full access to (because I can't speak) the original chinese (i.e., house of the flying daggers) or German soundtrack (Run Lola Run), but I'd rather watch the original one with subtitles than the (stupid) English one.
Having said that, bluray has a lot of space, so as long as it doesn't affect the original soundtrack, a dubbed version in HD audio could be added.
But for the love of God, don't lower the bitrate of the original soundtrack for an extra language

But is that typical of the J6Ps in your Country? I'm willing to bet that most people in your country prefer the "Dubs to the Subs".

My main quirk here was that Warner is doing TDK with 448K DD instead of the Warner typical 640K. No other Blockbuster has received such poor Audio treatment and they're pulling this stunt with the most hyped release of the year!!

[bhampton]

Hey,

I think Josh said DVDs capped out at 448 and Blu Ray can go to 640... I have to double check but my Pink Floyd Pulse DVD comes with an optional higher bit rate that not all DVD players support.

Found this in a review..

..."choice between a 448kbps audio bitstream or a higher-quality 640kbps stream for higher-quality DVD players."


=Brian

[steve_dave]

Although a few DVDs did have 640kbs DD, these are very rare.

DVD movies have DD 5.1 bit rates that are either 340kbs or 448kbs. 448kbs is considered the best that DVD can do.

Blu-ray movies have DD 5.1 bit rates that can be 448kbs, 640kbs, or higher.

HD DVD movies have DD Plus 5.1 bit rates that can be 448kbs, 640kbs, 768kbs, or 1.5mbs.

The common thinking is that DD capable receivers connected with optical/coaxial connections can only handle a 640kbs DD/DD Plus stream due the size of the sound stream.

Which is why HD DVD players have to transcode the DD Plus audio to either DTS 1.5mbs or DD 640kbs. This way older receivers without HDMI would be able to still output multi-channel sound.

Blu-ray is capable of higher quality DD and DD Plus but only 640kbs is used for these lossy formats for compatibility. Since, again, Blu-ray specs do not make DD Plus mandatory but secondary...it would be a redundant and space wasting track. Especially if you include DD Plus 1.5mbs with a 640kbs DD track. Its just more efficient to have a Dolby TrueHD track with the secondary 640kbs DD track.

Universal had two HD DVD titles that were 768kbs DD Plus but the remainder of their HD DVD catalog were 1.5mbs DD Plus. To maintain that high quality audio, they chose DTS HD Master Audio. If the receiver was unable to decode the DTS HD MA track, a core 1.5mbs DTS track was included. DTS HD MA is considered more efficient since it does not require a dual soundtrack encode on disc. The DTS HD MA track was designed with two tracks in a single encode. The player just extracts the most equipment compatible track.

As for the original soundtrack versus dub:

In Thailand, distributors can cut disc costs if they just include a dub track only. Step It Up sells for around $3-$5 or even less because there is no English track. To curb piracy, Fox releases select titles to DVD early but with Thai dubs only. Sadly, most consumers in this country do not care about picture, sound, or extras. They just want to see the movie.

Same goes for China and Russia. Because there are very few film enthusiasts in these countries, localized versions of films (meaning dubbed) appear on shelves far earlier than expected.

I asked my family about Blu-ray in Thailand and even hit up a few shops when I was there in August. Not only is price an obstacle but few televisions in Thailand support the resolutions BD needs to shine. They have widescreen LCDS but to cut costs, 90% of these max at 480p. Lets face it, you can buy a pirate VideoCD for less than $2, a pirate DVD for less than $5, a localized dubbed legal DVD for around $5, a legal DVD with original soundtrack for around $10, or a Blu-ray for around $35. (Prices listed in US currency)

When nearly all of the population makes less than $3 an hour, its hard to justify paying the higher cost.

And sometimes, most people just prefer to listen to the film in their native language. For cartoons, this is best as a lot of kids have yet to learn to read complex sentences or words. My cousins who are under six years old have to watch a movie dubbed since they can't read all of the subtitles.

I'll admit that I had to watch a few movies dubbed in English or Thai. My copy of Initial D that I bought in Thailand does not have English subtitles. I can't read Thai just yet so I watch it with the dub. Some of the movies on Netflix Instant on my 360 are only available dubbed in English. I could wait for these movies on DVD in the mail or I could watch them now.

[fettastic]

You tell 'em Steve-Dave!

[GGX]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Blu-ray movies have DD 5.1 bit rates that can be 448kbs, 640kbs, or higher.

That is incorrect. Dolby Digital has a maximum bitrate of 640kbps.

[love4blu]

Originally Posted by American Baron

But is that typical of the J6Ps in your Country? I'm willing to bet that most people in your country prefer the "Dubs to the Subs".

My main quirk here was that Warner is doing TDK with 448K DD instead of the Warner typical 640K. No other Blockbuster has received such poor Audio treatment and they're pulling this stunt with the most hyped release of the year!!

I come from Greece and the norm there is to use subtitles and not dubbing (for movies in theaters and DVDs), so I got used to reading subtitles from an early age. In fact, I think that watching English-speaking movies with subtitles helped me develop both my Greek (reading) and English (speaking) skills.
But to get on topic, I agree with you that Warner should have treated the soundtrack with greater respect, especially when the cultural norm in some countries favors dubbing to subtitles.
In that respect, for me it is totally annoying that many movies that have been released for region B lack Greek subtitles

[Cinema Squid]

I guess there are two separate topics going on here... but on the subject of DD+ it does actually make an appearance on a number of releases as the BonusView audio track - albeit mostly in 192kbps stereo from what I've seen. Some examples: Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Transformers and Kung Fu Panda.

If I am not mistaken, the reason for using DD+ with these is so it can be mixed with the main TrueHD soundtrack by the playback device as outlined in this Dolby whitepaper. I would assume a similar relationship exists between DTS-HD main audio and DTS Express BonusView tracks. However, I have also seen TrueHD and DTS Express paired together (ex. Sony's Untraceable and Vantage Point) so there may be more to the story.

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by American Baron

You Guys have missed my Point totally!!!!! As you can tell by my Nick, I am American!! I prefer watching the Movies in my native Language, but typical germans also prefer watching in their language (as does every non-english speaking Country)!

The theatrical Versions ARE DUBBED, so why in the hell shouldn't the DVDs and BDs be? You have to remember that Blu-Ray is marketed as an extreme Improvement to the Video AND AUDIO in the Movie viewing experience. They aren't being marketed as improved Video and English audio track ;-)

If Warner didn't want to release the foreign Dubs as lossless, then they should have atleast done DTS or at a minimum DD at 640K and not 448K like the DVD Version!

Sorry Guys, but I don't get the Attitudes of some Posters here! All Countries have J6Ps and alot of them aren't fluent in english and they also don't want to read Subs throughout the whole Movie!

AB

It is not true that the theatrical versions are always dubbed. At least here in Vienna you always get the original English version without subtitles and, of course, the German dubbed version. If the original film language is other than English you get the original version with subtitles or again a German dubbed version. I can only tell you one thing: These dubbed versions are terrible. They always sound the same, they always use the same German phraseology. If the film takes place, say, in underworld circles a Yakuza from Tokyo will sound exactly the same as a Russian mafioso in London or a wise guy from New York. That the lip movements never correspond to what is being said can also be quite disturbing. My native language is not English, it is German, but I quit watching dubbed movies a long time ago, except as a courtesy to friends.

[American Baron]

Believe me, I know where you guys are coming from. I would also much prefer the original tone with subs, but I'm affraid that's just us Enthusiests talking. The Fact is that germans do indeed prefer Dubs and the Studio's german branches know this. As mentioned Sony releases all BDs with lossless in the O-Tone and in german.

The fact that no other Studio does this is quite annoying in itself, but my rant wasn't even about lossless Dubs! My rant was that Warner is doing the german Dub at 448k instead of 640k as with all other releases. This is the first Warner release with the Audio at only 448k and the fact that this is the highest anticipated Release this year makes it unacceptable.

Please keep in mind that BDs are very pricey here in Germany and the Studios have stated that the reason that the Disks are more expensive than say in the UK is because of the Dubs. So basically, Germans (and many other non english speaking European Countries) pay extra for the Dubs, so don't they have the right to the best possible Audio that Blu can offer?

Look at all the Forum Posts around the Internet complaining about Warner's lack of lossless on their Releases. Had Warner released TDK with the O-Tone only at 448k DD, you guys would all be yelling Blasphemy (so would I)!!

As Fettastic mentioned earlier other Countries do indeed have other Cultures and that really should be accepted. I don't criticize my Wife (she is german and speaks very little english) or my german friends because they prefer Dubs and neither should you.

Just think about it. You guys have to admit that Warner pulled a number with this release, right?

AB

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by American Baron

Just think about it. You guys have to admit that Warner pulled a number with this release, right?

AB

I am with you here, 100 per cent. And the last thing I want to do is to defend Warner in this matter, they have given me enough grief with audio and I am talking American releases here.

I had to triple dip "Phantom of the Opera" to finally get a BD with proper audio. This is by the way an example that it is not always the dubbed version that gets the stick on German releases. The German "Phantom" has dts HD MA reserved to the German singers who performed kind of a Karaoke act singing German to the Music (truly a gut-wrenching experience) whereas the English original sound was regular dts only (albeit full resolution dts at 1.5 Mbps). It was Japan that came to the rescue with a release that features the original version in both uncompressed PCM 5.1 and lossless Dolby TrueHD 5.1. (Warner's American release is Dolby Digital at 640 kbps). Warner is notorious for being negligent with regard to audio. "Michael Clayton" in Dolby Digital 5.1 is one recent negative highlight.

One final remark: On DVDs where space is a scarce commodity it is mostly the German dubbed track that gets preferential treatment when sacrifices have to be made.