Herbie's Footers- Tweaks to improve your Audio and Video

[btf1980]

It all depends. With turntables, I think isolation is a must, either with a sturdy platform, or with isolation feet. Vibration is very real in that arena, and can make significant changes. It has in my setup.

When it comes to HT though, then no, I do not think it is necessary at all. I think your room acoustics will play a much more significant role than "tweaks".

The problem is that you have many vendors just selling bullshit and sure enough, some buy it. Sometimes you just have to wonder about the mentality of people that buy electrodemagnetizers and other nonsense. I had a guy the other day recommending some walker audio vivid enhancer to use to bring out the highs and lows of SACDs and CDs in my system. when you start talking like that, then you're just lost....lol.

[btf1980]

The ultimate tweak.

http://www.meter.com/mothra/powcord.html

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by btf1980

It all depends. With turntables, I think isolation is a must, either with a sturdy platform, or with isolation feet. Vibration is very real in that arena, and can make significant changes. It has in my setup.

When it comes to HT though, then no, I do not think it is necessary at all. I think your room acoustics will play a much more significant role than "tweaks".

The problem is that you have many vendors just selling bullshit and sure enough, some buy it. Sometimes you just have to wonder about the mentality of people that buy electrodemagnetizers and other nonsense. I had a guy the other day recommending some walker audio vivid enhancer to use to bring out the highs and lows of SACDs and CDs in my system. when you start talking like that, then you're just lost....lol.

I never suggested that footers or other tweaks were necessary for Home Theater. I indicated that I found there was some benefit (particularly when used under electronic components and transports and believe it or not under the DirecTV HD receiver as well as using the brass domes with neutralizing material under my subwoofer) and to my ears quite noticeable for both 2 channel and multichannel (be it music or home theater). Additionally, if you look, I posted this in the Audio and Audio Theory Discussion portion of the Forum, not under any home theater discussion section. In addition, these are not BS products; they have a 90 day money back guarantee and have had very positive feedback on the Herbie's website and on other forums as I have mentioned.

Rich

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

I never suggested that footers or other tweaks were necessary for Home Theater. I indicated that I found there was some benefit (particularly when used under electronic components and transports and believe it or not under the DirecTV HD receiver as well as using the brass domes with neutralizing material under my subwoofer) and to my ears quite noticeable for both 2 channel and multichannel (be it music or home theater). Additionally, if you look, I posted this in the Audio and Audio Theory Discussion portion of the Forum, not under any home theater discussion section. In addition, these are not BS products; they have a 90 day money back guarantee and have had very positive feedback on the Herbie's website and on other forums as I have mentioned.

Rich

Is there a reason why you are so defensive? I never said you suggested anything, and my post wasn't a critique on Herbie's footers. I just gave my opinion on "tweaks". It wasn't really in response to you or Herbie's footers.

In all honesty, I could care less.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by btf1980

Is there a reason why you are so defensive? I never said you suggested anything, and my post wasn't a critique on Herbie's footers. I just gave my opinion on "tweaks". It wasn't really in response to you or Herbie's footers.

In all honesty, I could care less.

No problem, perhaps I misunderstood what you were stating. I am not trying to be defensive, just even handed.

Rich

[Driver_King]

I think this would be a more cost-effective option than the ones you listed. I do see how it is possible for it to improve audio performance but there is a certain extent to where you see results compared to other less expensive options.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by John72953

I'm gonna jump in here and give my 2 cents on this subject, although I am far from being a true audiophile with high-end equipment. As I've posted on prior occasions, I consider my set-up to be of mid-fi status and I think that is the point at which the implementation of certain "tweeks" starts to make some sense.

John, the only thing I would like to add is that you do not need to own hi-fi, mid-fi, or low-fi equipment to be knowledgeable about a subject. There are many intelligent and educated people who are not financially well-off and can not afford very high-end equipment. However, they can read and attend high-end shows & stores, and experiment.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

John, the only thing I would like to add is that you do not need to own hi-fi, mid-fi, or low-fi equipment to be knowledgeable about a subject. There are many intelligent and educated people who are not financially well-off and can not afford very high-end equipment. However, they can read and attend high-end shows & stores, and experiment.

With all due respect BD, that wasn't inferred by me at all. I do agree though that one does not have to own high end equipment to be knowledgeble about it. I was just expressing my experience with the equipment I own.

In the past I have owned what one would call high-end equipment (McIntosh, Krell, YBA to name a few) and "tweaking" was a very serious and worthwhile attempt at gaining musical nirvana.

Then came the down times and I had to sell everything. Started fresh from the ground up and tried some "tweaks". They didn't work for the most part because the equipment I was trying to "tweak" didn't have the sensitivity to recognize what was being offered.

Now that I'm at a mid-fi stage in my setup, I notice that certain "tweaks" have started to attain an audible benefit. That was the entire point of my post! Nothing more, nothing less.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

John, the only thing I would like to add is that you do not need to own hi-fi, mid-fi, or low-fi equipment to be knowledgeable about a subject. There are many intelligent and educated people who are not financially well-off and can not afford very high-end equipment. However, they can read and attend high-end shows & stores, and experiment.

This is very true. I would also like to point out the opposite. There are many who have expensive gear who aren't knowledgeable at all.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by btf1980

This is very true. I would also like to point out the opposite. There are many who have expensive gear who aren't knowledgeable at all.

I agree. I have plenty of friends in the Los Angeles area that simply buy the most expensive gear without having a clue about what they are and what they do. It is simply something they can brag about.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by btf1980

When it comes to HT though, then no, I do not think it is necessary at all. I think your room acoustics will play a much more significant role than "tweaks".

The problem is that you have many vendors just selling bullshit and sure enough, some buy it. Sometimes you just have to wonder about the mentality of people that buy electrodemagnetizers and other nonsense. I had a guy the other day recommending some walker audio vivid enhancer to use to bring out the highs and lows of SACDs and CDs in my system. when you start talking like that, then you're just lost....lol.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. The effect of these kinds of tweaks is either nil(placebo) or too subtle to quantify and basically unmeasureable. Dealing with room acoustic will yield far more measureable and audible improvements than these over priced tweaks can any day.

I remember seeing a hometheater with thousands of dollars of tweaks(the killer was the little speaker wire suspensions to keep the wires from touching each other and the floor itself). When challenged on the effectiveness of these tweaks, a person measured the response of his system with tweaks, and without them, and found no difference whatsoever. So whatever magical properties he heard, they turned out to be a placebo in reality. Things like tilting bookshelf speakers backwards to time align the drivers is beneficial, but magical spikes, I have my doubts.

[Halcro 1]

I use the Black Diamond Racing cones and pucks on CD Player Amp and Pre/Pro and DVD ... and for 2 channel they WORK ..Dont know on HT too much on But if makes music sound better Im shure it makes the AQ on movies sound better.....

[mdabb]

I think it could be a valid tweak for some equipment. Obviously it will most likely be a waste of money if the equipment is on the low end but higher end gear it can be a benefit or something to consider.

It can better isolate the CD/DVD/BD player, etc.... from vibration more so than the stock feet. I'm not so sure about a huge increase in terms of SQ but anytime vibration can be reduced to a minimum, that has to be a good thing. Think of it as putting better tires on your car.

Putting spikes/footers on speakers is an improvement on SQ. I have done a few comparisons with and without. The spikes cleaned up the sound more than I would of thought. Of course this is a minor tweak compared to implementing acoustical treatments and such but in the end compare for yourself.

I don't think the OP is "pushing" this product on anyone. I think he is passing on his experience with a product he found useful in his own setup. Nothing wrong in that is there ???

I must be foolish for using a product called SILCLEAR from Mapleshade. It is a silver bearing contact enhancer that I use on my spade lugs for my speakers. Kind of like putting That contact grease on the battery terminals in your car. It makes for a better connections (better contact between the spade plug and speaker binding post). Does it make a huge improvement in SQ ??? Yes and no.......... you have to try it out for yourself and make that judgement.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/aud...s/silclear.php

I for one like hearing about people's experiences with tweaks. Some tweaks can help, others a waste of time. If you haven't tried a particular product how can someone say what does and doesn't work ??? In this case the product is inexpensive compared to what's out there.

At least the subject is not about boring "evil Monster" VS $3 HDMI cables threads. What speakers, receiver, BD player and everything else I need $500-$1000 threads. Those questions can be answered with the help of the search function and still this place is over-run with this crap.

[Driver_King]

I don't think anyone here was questioning the fact that sound isolation from the floor for your equipment in certain setups. The argument was that the spikes mentioned in the first place aren't cost-effective and other spikes can be had at less money for probably the same performance.

[mdabb]

Compared to other spikes/footers, this product is inexpensive. I guess it comes down to the design of the product. Can it work better than the average footer or spike ??? Wouldn't know until you try it. Same goes for other tweaks......... within reason of course.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mdabb

What speakers, receiver, BD player and everything else I need $500-$1000 threads. Those questions can be answered with the help of the search function and still this place is over-run with this crap.

Awww, but me and Ol' King over there love answering these!

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Compared to other spikes/footers, this product is inexpensive. I guess it comes down to the design of the product. Can it work better than the average footer or spike ??? Wouldn't know until you try it. Same goes for other tweaks......... within reason of course.

Wouldn't you agree that the title for the thread is a bit misleading then? The spikes/footers mentioned most likely won't improve your video and probably won't improve just everyone's audio. Maybe "High-end audio tweaks" would be a more appropriate title.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Driver_King

I don't think anyone here was questioning the fact that sound isolation from the floor for your equipment in certain setups. The argument was that the spikes mentioned in the first place aren't cost-effective and other spikes can be had at less money for probably the same performance.

If I might, I would like to make a comment. Firstly, if anyone checks my original posting in this thread I never even mentioned spikes. That was first brought up by VinnAY. I responded in turn and others followed up on the question of spikes. When I first posted my comments it was in regards to Herbie's footers in general which I mentioned could be used under all kinds of equipment. Herbie's has many many kinds of footers and isolation materials, etc. that start in price for just about $.50 and up (some of these are listed on the Vibration page: http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/misc.htm. The fact is I do not use any of Herbie's spikes as I have mentioned and never suggested that anyone use them. In addition, no one took the time to look at the Herbie's page for his selection of spikes (carpet) (including the one sited) (and he normally recommends using 3) that he recommends for carpeted hardwood or suspended floors. For bare wood floors he recommends his Big Fat Dots (which cost between $3.49 and $11.65 each and he normally recommends using 3). Here is the link to the page regarding the spikes: http//herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/spkrft.htm

I use some of his neutralizing dots, vibration materials, domes, Tender feet (under most equipment like transports, pre/pro, etc) and also his more expensive Iso-Cups and Iso-Cup Bases (only under my power amps). Some may argue that these are an expensive items that have little or no benefit (or have a placebo affect) and that working with room acoustics is a much more prudent usage of ones money. However, used under the electronics equipment, transports, etc. they do supply much better isolation than the feet that came from the original manufacturer.

Let me rephrase that last comment, how many of you use the cables that came with your electronic equipment? Isn't it more appropriate to listen with an open mind and possibly even try a product if it comes with a money back guarantee?

Rich

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

Awww, but me and Ol' King over there love answering these!

However it's a rarity that you will ever find someone dissing someone for buying cheaper gear. I do sense a bit a ridicule sometimes when people talk about tweaks, high end gear or a topic along that line. Not sure if I'm making my point ???

Some may say it's a waste of money to buy a product like this, the same could be said about cheap gear.

It's a turn-off to other members who use or might be interested in a product like this to always come on here and be poked at. Challenging this product or being objective is one thing but this problem has existed here at this site for some time.

Know that I'm not talking about anyone specific or even this thread but it usually ends up that way. You gotta give me that............ I think it prevents a lot of audio/videophiles from participating on this site. I like Blu-ray.com and just hate seeing people shit all over it. There should be room for all people to discuss gear at all price levels and/or experience.

The problem is more than just this and I'm sure others know what I'm talking about. I don't want this to turn into an episode of Dr. Phil so I'll leave it alone.

I don't want anyone on this post to feel I'm talking about you, I'm not. Luckily "they" haven't posted. It would bother me just as much to read about someone shitting all over cheaper product threads.

Maybe it's my time of the month..............

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

If I might, I would like to make a comment. Firstly, if anyone checks my original posting in this thread I never even mentioned spikes. That was first brought up by VinnAY.

I saw spikes in a post and included it in my post. I just thought it was being used a synonym or something.

I responded in turn and others followed up on the question of spikes. When I first posted my comments it was in regards to Herbie's footers in general which I mentioned could be used under all kinds of equipment. Herbie's has many many kinds of footers and isolation materials, etc. that start in price for just about $.50 and up (some of these are listed on the Vibration page: http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/misc.htm. The fact is I do not use any of Herbie's spikes as I have mentioned and never suggested that anyone use them.

Let's all point fingers at VinnAY then.

In addition, no one took the time to look at the Herbie's page for his selection of spikes (including the one sited) that he recommends for carpeted hardwood or suspended floors. For bare wood floors he recommends his Big Fat Dots (which cost between $3.49 and $11.65 each). Here is the link to the page regarding the spikes:http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/spkrft.htm

I mixed up both words and used the interchangeably.

I use some of his neutralizing dots, vibration materials, domes, Tender feet (under most equipment like transports, pre/pro, etc) and also his more expensive Iso-Cups and Iso-Cup Bases (only under my power amps). Some may argue that these are an expensive items that have little or no benefit (or have a placebo affect) and that working with room acoustics is a much more prudent usage of ones money. However, used under the electronics equipment, transports, etc. they do supply much better isolation than the feet that came from the original manufacturer.

That was my argument right there.

Let me rephrase that last comment, how many of you use the cables that came with your electronic equipment? Isn't it more appropriate to listen with an open mind and possibly even try a product if it comes with a money back guarantee?

I use the power cords that came with my receiver, projector, TV, PS3, and subs and antenna. That's about it.

Responses are bolded. I did a play by play there to help with everyone's confusion. I hope that helps.