DIY Room Treatment Projects

[liquidice]

waiting to see what BD says. I finally updated my gallery to showcase poly-stuffing and my GRAMPA. I'm waiting for these idea's to spread like wildfire through this site. Surprised we haven't had more people asking questions about building the riser and stuffing?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by liquidice

waiting to see what BD says. I finally updated my gallery to showcase poly-stuffing and my GRAMPA. I'm waiting for these idea's to spread like wildfire through this site. Surprised we haven't had more people asking questions about building the riser and stuffing?

I would hope other people would want to improve there sound systems . And for so little as far as cost too. My GRAMPA & polyfill cost me around $20. & it changed the sound of the sub dramaticly !!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by liquidice

do you all see what I was getting at about the shelves though?

and then take some acoustic foam, and cut out the square pattern within the bookshelf/diffuser, and place the acoustic foam within those shelves: creating a diffuser/absorber panel. You would only be putting 4 pieces of foam in the complete squares of the shelf, not the outer half squares...does that make sense? I'm wondering how that would work? I'm already assuming it could work, but how would it sound? I don't think any of us would know unless we actually tried it. And so far, BD would be the only person to try it, but maybe I'm beginning to fall off the "CRAZY" end of all of this. Well, boundaries are meant to be pushed!

Liquidice,

This is a great idea. I was thinking about doing the same thing. I have a feeling you came to my dream and stole my idea.

[liquidice]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Liquidice,

This is a great idea. I was thinking about doing the same thing. I have a feeling you came to my dream and stole my idea.

damn, I'm just trying to get credit for something!...even naming it!!! I was thinking if I were to do what I explained, I would start by using a thinner acoustic foam, because I wouldn't want the sound waves to be absorbed too much, just enough to get a perfect balance of absorption vs dispersion.

[SierraMikeBravo]

Be careful on making assumptions about slapping diffusion and absorption here and there. Absorption alone is NOT a good idea for the side wall reflections unless the nearfield environment of your front speakers dictates it as so. By slapping up absorption at the mirror points, I guarantee your sound field will no longer surpass the boundaries of your room. There are ways of absorbing and preserving certain frequencies at the same time, and in the same location. Understanding why you are using absorption (and what frequencies you are trying to target) is key. The point I am trying to make here is that using cookie cutter room treatment ideas is not a good idea. You need to KNOW what your equipment is capable of and what the waves are doing in your room BEFORE you slap up treatment. There are some hard and fast rules regarding treatment, and then there are rules that only apply to certain rooms. Understanding which is which is key to understanding how to treat your room. You can actually do more harm than good (not to mention wasting money) by haphazardly treating it. Now, everyone is going to ask "How do I know?", and honestly, it would take me a month to write to cover all the details and possibilites. My suggestion is to begin by picking up a physics textbook and begin reading.

[crazyBLUE]

Big Daddy ~ I need to know the size of you're diffusers you just made ! I am making my shopping list out for next weekend , This will give me an idea how many diffusers to buy !

shopping list so far

FOAM FACTORY

CORNER TRAPS X 4-----51.99
48"X72'X2" ~ X 1------34.99
24"X48"X2" ~ X 12----139.98
Panals are pyramid

Wood ~
Fabric ~

Hardware to hang 3 panals & Diffusers from ceiling !
Hardware to hang 8 panals on wall

Let me know !!

[SierraMikeBravo]

^^^^^

I don't think you comprehended a word I said. Do you know what you are trying to do? By your very question of what type of material should I use, I am implying that you do not. By the way, the wood shelving by itself is not really helping you to do anything. That is not Schroeder diffusion. Proper diffusion actually has varying depths and opening widths that are mathematically derived for specific frequencies. The only way to truely ascertain is to measure. You have to know what you are trying to do before you attempt anything. By placing irregular surfaces in the shelving, such as varying book depths, will actually help you to achieve a better diffusive sound field. I would use more of a square shelving without the curving. It will help to fully utilize the spacing. In addition, drywall itself actually has some diffusive properties. Hope this helped.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo

^^^^^

I don't think you comprehended a word I said. Do you know what you are trying to do? By your very question of what type of material should I use, I am implying that you do not. By the way, the wood shelving by itself is not really helping you to do anything. That is not Schroeder diffusion. Proper diffusion actually has varying depths and opening widths that are mathematically derived for specific frequencies. The only way to truely ascertain is to measure. You have to know what you are trying to do before you attempt anything. By placing irregular surfaces in the shelving, such as varying book depths, will actually help you to achieve a better diffusive sound field. I would use more of a square shelving without the curving. It will help to fully utilize the spacing. In addition, drywall itself actually has some diffusive properties. Hope this helped.

The wood & fabric ~ I do not know what it will cost hens the shrugs
& do I know what I am doing NEVER !!

[liquidice]

you smell that?....sounds like a can of worms may have just been cracked open? SierraMikeBravo, we appreciate your feedback, but your approach could be a little better. There are countless number of people on here with degrees ranging from audio engineer to physics engineers who give feedback to all of us in a constructive, informative manner. My knowledge in the entire field assocaited with home theaters has gone from total rookie, to feeling really comfortable helping other neebie joiners. I realize you just joined and want to make an impact, but please do so in an informative manner. If you do some reading on Big Daddy for instance, his beginning thread of subwoofer design took him a month to put together, he's declared that himself. He did this entirely to put on a website forum to help bring people into his world of knowledge. So instead of telling us all to "pick up a physics book", why don't you put together information for us, who knows, maybe you'd seem worthy of becoming a MOD?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by liquidice

you smell that?....sounds like a can of worms may have just been cracked open? SierraMikeBravo, we appreciate your feedback, but your approach could be a little better. There are countless number of people on here with degrees ranging from audio engineer to physics engineers who give feedback to all of us in a constructive, informative manner. My knowledge in the entire field assocaited with home theaters has gone from total rookie, to feeling really comfortable helping other neebie joiners. I realize you just joined and want to make an impact, but please do so in an informative manner. If you do some reading on Big Daddy for instance, his beginning thread of subwoofer design took him a month to put together, he's declared that himself. He did this entirely to put on a website forum to help bring people into his world of knowledge. So instead of telling us all to "pick up a physics book", why don't you put together information for us, who knows, maybe you'd seem worthy of becoming a MOD?

Vary well said liquidice ! I had to keep mine short because I start going I will say things I should not & that is not constuctive !

[SierraMikeBravo]

I do apologize if I came across rude. It was not my intention. I also have a science degree. One specifically dealing with waves and the physics of waves in addition to being certified by HAA. Please, understand I am trying to help you, and to save you from making a monetary mistake. I may have just joined this forum, but please don't take that as being a green. Again, just trying to help you, and I sincerely apologize for coming off brash.

[mdabb]

I think "SierraMikeBravo" is only trying to help and in a kind manner. Acoustical treatments is not something that has a "one size fits all" solution to it, and short of hiring a pro, no one is really going to be able to truly and effectively help any of us.

Perhaps "SierraMikeBravo" is stating something you might not have wanted to hear ??? I believe if he didn't want to help, he would have kept his mouth shut. I guarantee Big Daddy will ultimately tell anyone the same thing. There is no short cuts or simple solutions when it comes to acoustical treatments. Everyone's rooms/problems are unique. As will be the solution. So thank "SierraMikeBravo" for bringing this to attention !!!

Also it is one thing to talk about all of this, but to expect any single person to do all of the work for us is crazy. We should do some of the work ourselves, no ???

Now, in case you didn't know Big Daddy is not really even human , part man, part machine !!! Now you know ....

Sorry Big D I had to let your secret out. It is time, forgive !!!

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo

I do apologize if I came across rude. It was not my intention. I also have a science degree. One specifically dealing with waves and the physics of waves in addition to being certified by HAA. Please, understand I am trying to help you, and to save you from making a monetary mistake. I may have just joined this forum, but please don't take that as being a green. Again, just trying to help you, and I sincerely apologize for coming off brash.

It's ok Mike ! Try not to push so hard with the expertise you have ! offering & making suggestions will go alot farther here !

[liquidice]

I was going to say this before, but I was trying to make a point. If you read even just a few pages from the end of the "Repairing, Upgrading, and Building Subwoofers & Speakers" thread, you'll see we are forming an alliance of crazy-headed experimentalist, reaching for total home theater world domination, and feeling a sense of accomplishment! Facts can be pointed out to me, or I can read them myself, but if I just go with what I read, and don't feel the need to push the boundary of a "known" fact, then where is the fun in that? Is that how inventors have been known in the past? If I were to kick back and read hundreds of books on loudspeaker design, acoustic research, home theater design, and then just get up after reading all these books and then say, "Yep!!!...I'm good", and carry on my life as normal, I'd feel like a robot. Again, it's always been in my nature to test the tests, audit the auditor, calibrate the calibrator (if you will...). I want to find solutions myself, and test the limits others have tested and reported. This is why I'm always catching so much heat on this forum, because in one way or another I keep asking the same questions!...just phrased differently! Ooops, I gave away my secret. Actually I think jomari is the only one tracking me, but he can't find my gender.....another subject, nevermind.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by liquidice

I was going to say this before, but I was trying to make a point. If you read even just a few pages from the end of the "Repairing, Upgrading, and Building Subwoofers & Speakers" thread, you'll see we are forming an alliance of crazy-headed experimentalist, reaching for total home theater world domination, and feeling a sense of accomplishment! Facts can be pointed out to me, or I can read them myself, but if I just go with what I read, and don't feel the need to push the boundary of a "known" fact, then where is the fun in that? Is that how inventors have been known in the past? If I were to kick back and read hundreds of books on loudspeaker design, acoustic research, home theater design, and then just get up after reading all these books and then say, "Yep!!!...I'm good", and carry on my life as normal, I'd feel like a robot. Again, it's always been in my nature to test the tests, audit the auditer, calibrate the calibrator (if you will...). I want to find solutions myself, and test the limits others have tested and reported. This is why I'm always catching so much heat on this forum, because in one way or another I keep asking the same questions!...just phrased differently! Ooops, I gave away my secret. Actually I think jomari is the only one tracking me, but he can't find my gender.....another subject, nevermind.

I'm NOT going to ask ! Again well said ! If you are not experimenting it is taking all the fun out of learning & you can move things if there not just right !!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Big Daddy ~ I need to know the size of you're diffusers you just made ! I am making my shopping list out for next weekend , This will give me an idea how many diffusers to buy !

They are 28" x 28". Did they make a difference? Yes, they did drastically. Am I completely satisfied? No, not yet. I changed the position of a couple and the sound changed a little.

I ran the Audyssey calibration program and I did not like the sound afterwards. It had increased the high frequencies to their maximum level and made the speakers shriek. I thought my ears were going to burn. I wanted to call the fire department.

I had to manually adjust everything with my good old Radio Shack SPL meter and test tones. I used the Velodyne subwoofer parametric equalizer and made the bass sound completely flat from 20Hz to 100Hz. I hated the results afterward. The bass became more refined and deeper, but you could hardly hear it.

After wasting several hours and running Audyssey and Velodyne sevral times and tweaking them to death, the sound is almost perfect. The point I am making is that you need to be patient and experiment. Your HT room is an audio lab. No Physics textbook can teach you that.

I do not disagree with SierraMikeBravo. He is correct. However, this is Blu-ray.com forum and not a college physics course. We are trying to help people to achieve better sound with minimum expense. Room treatment is a tricky subject. I believe my simple diagrams in Post #13 are far more useful than any Physics texbook on waves. You need to be more constructive in providing information. Perhaps, simple examples or links are helpful.

Despite all the negative comments, we managed to build subwoofer risers for less than $20 with drastic results. I am not a perfect judge, but my SPL meter doesn't lie when the sub output went higher by almost 10db after buiding two 10" risers for my Hsu subwoofers.

Liquidice, thanks for your support. I spent two months on A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II) thread alone. Read the comment by Sir Terrence in Post #9. He is an audio engineer and I believe he works for Disney. I don't get paid. My only reward is when a member tells me that he/she found the thread useful.

Madabb is also correct. I am half human and half machine. I agree that the members should do their own research and bring positive input to the forum.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

They are 28" x 28". Did they make a difference? Yes, they did drastically. Am I completely satisfied? No, not yet. I changed the position of a couple and the sound changed a little.

I ran the Audyssey calibration program and I did not like the sound afterwards. It had increased the high frequencies to their maximum level and made the speakers shriek. I thought my ears were going to burn. I wanted to call the fire department.

I had to manually adjust everything with my good old Radio Shack SPL meter and test tones. I used the Velodyne subwoofer parametric equalizer and made the bass sound completely flat from 20Hz to 100Hz. I hated the results afterward. The bass became more refined and deeper, but you could hardly hear it.

After wasting several hours and running Audyssey and Velodyne sevral times and tweaking them to death, the sound is almost perfect. The point I am making is that you need to be patient and experiment. Your HT room is an audio lab. No Physics textbook can teach you that.

I do not disagree with SierraMikeBravo. He is correct. However, this is Blu-ray.com forum and not a college physics course. We are trying to help people to achieve better sound with minimum expense. Room treatment is a tricky subject. I believe my simple diagrams in Post #13 are far more useful than any Physics texbook on waves. You need to be more constructive in providing information. Perhaps, simple examples or links are helpful.

Despite all the negative comments, we managed to build subwoofer risers for less than $20 with drastic results. I am not a perfect judge, but my SPL meter doesn't lie when the sub output went higher by almost 10db after buiding two 10" risers for my Hsu subwoofers.

Liquidice, thanks for your support. I spent two months on A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II) thread alone. Read the comment by Sir Terrence in Post #9. He is an audio engineer and I believe he works for Disney. I don't get paid. My only reward is when a member tells me that he/she found the thread useful.

Madabb is also correct. I am half human and half machine. I agree that the members should do their own research and bring positive input to the forum.

Thanks Big Daddy ! That will put that figure at 5 on my shopping list !!
Now if you would send me you're credit card so I can pay for all this stuff I can start listening to music & my Blu's instead of the room !!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Thanks Big Daddy ! That will put that figure at 5 on my shopping list !!
Now if you would send me you're credit card so I can pay for all this stuff I can start listening to music & my Blu's instead of the room !!

I don't use credit cards. I have a printing machine that prints greenbacks.

[rded]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I ran the Audyssey calibration program and I did not like the sound afterwards. It had increased the high frequencies to their maximum level and made the speakers shriek. I thought my ears were going to burn. I wanted to call the fire department.

I had to manually adjust everything with my good old Radio Shack SPL meter and test tones. I used the Velodyne subwoofer parametric equalizer and made the bass sound completely flat from 20Hz to 100Hz. I hated the results afterward. The bass became more refined and deeper, but you could hardly hear it.

After wasting several hours and running Audyssey and Velodyne sevral times and tweaking them to death, the sound is almost perfect. The point I am making is that you need to be patient and experiment. Your HT room is an audio lab. No Physics textbook can teach you that.

BD, I'm glad that there are still people like you that use an SPL meter to calibrate room acoustics and speaker level. I personally dislike Audyssey and only relied on it for measuring distance distance(and a tape measure). If you are a true audiophile or AV enthusiast, you'll never stop teaking-ever

[jomari]

i couldnt resist. jut got back from my trip, albeit exhausted from 2 hour drives, i shall try to retain a certain course in mind while posting.

as sierramikebravo mentions, we cant just easily resolve all our acoustic challenges with a smack here and there of acoustic materials.

ive mentioned before, to oversimplify this, there are three components in addressing acoustic treatments
absorption
diffusion
bass treatments.

but again, this is an oversimplification of matters. we'd also have to determine what needs to be addressed and how to address them. we cant teach you're ears how to 'see' certain factors, or learn to distinguish a harsh signal versus a cleaner one. theres also years of studies and science to attain such nirvana. sure, i know a thing or two about acoustics, but it took me quite a long time before i ended up giving advice on them.

we cannot simply address acoustics of someones room by simple pictures nor dimensions and/or equipment. only you can determine what may be needed. by trial and error. by learning more details about your room. by research.

acoustics is one of the topics that are underestimated in so many ways, and also avoided. why? time, trial, and a lot of frustration occurs when addressing these concerns. once you learn the basics, there is no way we can settle on how our room interacts with our speakers. its a living room, a dedicated home theater, but no anechoic chamber and will never be. am i happy with that in mind? absolutely. unless im starting a recording studio, im pretty much happy with what i have.

at times i may end up harsh on certain comments, but also because of a million factors in play (i stepped on liquidice's toes once, and had to step back at times), but its also a manner saying somethings over and over, yet seeing the same questions asked over and over. or the simple fact that we have a sticky thread dedicated for it. as mentioned by bd, we just have to rethink our approach at times. some people understand better via pictures, others in objective steps that might need to be bullet pointed, others, a simple explanation. i hope tho that i can acheive the same amount of success as BD accomplished with his stickies, and i know it takes a LOT of time and dedication to create such a thread. remember: these tidbits, the advice we give here are for free, and try to back them up with researched material, and dont get much for doing so (thus the frustration at times), remember, the key word is free. we dont get paid for it. nada. not one blu-ray.

but its always gratifying to see certain members learn from them, and acknowledge that they've learned something about the subject, and pass the knowledge along to other people as well.

liquid, i cant say im tracking you, its just that the same topic been rephrased gets to me and i try to address it with the repeated answer. :P hehehe.

seriously, we're not engineers here, nor recording professionals, just simple joe sixpackers trying to learn more about the said topic. we cant claim to have the degrees, nor the 6 years of experience, but we can appreciate those who do have them to try to assist us with our learning curve. to see others doing so makes certain threads successful, with teaching and learning at the same time.

signing off folks, i promise, im going to come on back tomorrow to help for a couple of hours. im burnt to a crisp! :P