Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[tek8080]

All three of you are notorious for your blind favoritism towards certain labels. Whether that's due to the titles they put out, or just your innate desire to conflict with the mainstream, it's hard to say. Irrespective of this, my points are not based in this type of bias. Let's say right now in 2019, Dark Force and Code Red put out the same title as Arrow or Mondo Vision. There is no contest who would have the better release. Are there anomalies? Yes, of course. Many think that Code Red's release of Pit Stop looks better than Arrows. But factoring in the entire library of each studio, one is clearly better and more consistent than the other. And when you don't factor in favoritism for the titles they releases, that result is not subjective.

Don't over value something just because you want to be different.

[Christophah Maghen]

Originally Posted by tek8080

All three of you are notorious for your blind favoritism towards certain labels. Whether that's due to the titles they put out, or just your innate desire to conflict with the mainstream, it's hard to say. Irrespective of this, my points are not based in this type of bias. Let's say right now in 2019, Dark Force and Code Red put out the same title as Arrow or Mondo Vision. There is no contest who would have the better release. Are there anomalies? Yes, of course. Many think that Code Red's release of Pit Stop looks better than Arrows. But factoring in the entire library of each studio, one is clearly better and more consistent than the other. And when you don't factor in favoritism for the titles they releases, that result is not subjective.

Don't over value something just because you want to be different.

Look at the budgets each label is working with, the PQ of an average Code Red release is near or equal to Arrow, yet, Code Red is working with a 1000th of the budget.

Interesting you bring up "being different"

In the end it is the go to argument of those that follow the herd, you can't construct a valid argument so you just say "there are 20 of us and 1 of you...so I'm right"

[Fiocca_Cola]

Originally Posted by tek8080

All three of you are notorious for your blind favoritism towards certain labels. Whether that's due to the titles they put out, or just your innate desire to conflict with the mainstream, it's hard to say. Irrespective of this, my points are not based in this type of bias. Let's say right now in 2019, Dark Force and Code Red put out the same title as Arrow or Mondo Vision. There is no contest who would have the better release. Are there anomalies? Yes, of course. Many think that Code Red's release of Pit Stop looks better than Arrows. But factoring in the entire library of each studio, one is clearly better and more consistent than the other. And when you don't factor in favoritism for the titles they releases, that result is not subjective.

Don't over value something just because you want to be different.

3 of you, Don’t you mean 2?

Anyways quit feeding the shill trolls, just put the scum on ignore and they won’t exist anymore, it’s quite wonderful

[Christophah Maghen]

Originally Posted by Fiocca_Cola

3 of you, Don’t you mean 2?

Anyways quit feeding the shill trolls, just put the scum on ignore and they won’t exist anymore, it’s quite wonderful

Name calling is a bannable offense , better be careful calling people shills or trolls dude.

Edit - ooohh threw "scum" in there too.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by tek8080

All three of you are notorious for your blind favoritism towards certain labels. Whether that's due to the titles they put out, or just your innate desire to conflict with the mainstream, it's hard to say. Irrespective of this, my points are not based in this type of bias. Let's say right now in 2019, Dark Force and Code Red put out the same title as Arrow or Mondo Vision. There is no contest who would have the better release. Are there anomalies? Yes, of course. Many think that Code Red's release of Pit Stop looks better than Arrows. But factoring in the entire library of each studio, one is clearly better and more consistent than the other. And when you don't factor in favoritism for the titles they releases, that result is not subjective.

Don't over value something just because you want to be different.

Just to be clear, there is only one label I routinely criticize, Shout Factory, for pricing too high and constantly using other labels' old transfers with their own new special features, in order to save money on doing a proper restoration.

I have offered what I see as helpful suggestions to other companies, Arrow UK over the phone, Fox the same, but VS via the message board (such as don't end the peeks and sell slips separately), but have never been critical of their ability to put out a quality release, an ability that is obvious to any who watch their films.

Describing me as blindly favoring a label is just inaccurate. I love all labels. I have yet to encounter one I don't value. I appreciate the "little guy" labels the most, because they are working with lower budgets and smaller profit margins, with smaller staff, of course, and often end up having to sell exclusively or via non-mega-store type outlets, in order to turn a profit. That's a harder life and you really have to love film in order to do that.

Shout Factory really should be ashamed of the lack of quality, new transfers and the new price point they have embraced, as well as a lack of distribution by multiple vendors, given their insane new pricing. I know quite a few people who won't buy their releases anymore and I am one of them.

But, when it comes to Bill and David, they clearly love movies and they wouldn't do this for a living if they didn't believe in the value of film. That isn't blind anything. I appreciate what people do. Walt, as another example, has put out so many films that would not have seen a release, because he values the artform and fun films. We need more appreciation for our smaller labels, not less.

Alright, now, back to your little cat fight, guys.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by Fiocca_Cola

3 of you, Don’t you mean 2?

Anyways quit feeding the shill trolls, just put the scum on ignore and they won’t exist anymore, it’s quite wonderful

Please don't lump me in and refer to me as scum, unless you are willing to kiss your mother with that mouth and then tell her you've been online calling, let's just say middle-aged, since I can still pass, women "scum", because you don't always agree about the quality of film releases, which, admittedly, we don't.

Also, I don't think anyone here is scum, including you, FYI. Some aren't very nice but I think most people here are, like me, fans of fun films and quality high def releases. Isn't that why most of us still love CR and many of us are excited to see what DF releases next and then next and then after that and after that....

Mirror Mirror?
Point Doom?
They are on the horizon. DD did confirm that. We will have them, yes we will.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by Christophah Maghen

Look at the budgets each label is working with, the PQ of an average Code Red release is near or equal to Arrow, yet, Code Red is working with a 1000th of the budget.

Interesting you bring up "being different"

In the end it is the go to argument of those that follow the herd, you can't construct a valid argument so you just say "there are 20 of us and 1 of you...so I'm right"

The PQ on Code and Dark Forces releases is not near or equal to Arrow (I am sure Ruined will be along to tell us all about Pit Stop but most people know why those releases look different and most people acknowledge that Code Red has the superior source and presentation for that title). They are also not working with 1000x budget on any given title.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Christophah Maghen

... the PQ of an average Code Red release is near or equal to Arrow, yet, Code Red is working with a 1000th of the budget.

I can't remember the last Arrow Blu-ray that had green emulsion lines, scratches up the wazoo and hissy audio. Not saying these are necessarily bad things - I actually like the grindhouse look for grindhouse-type movies - but saying that PQ is similar between these two labels is like saying Mill Creek and Criterion have the same standards. Look, everybody has their own style so I'm not knocking Code Red but let's not cut everybody from the same cloth.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

I can't remember the last Arrow Blu-ray that had green emulsion lines, scratches up the wazoo and hissy audio. Not saying these are necessarily bad things - I actually like the grindhouse look for grindhouse-type movies - but saying that PQ is similar between these two labels is like saying Mill Creek and Criterion have the same standards. Look, everybody has their own style so I'm not knocking Code Red but let's not cut everybody from the same cloth.

Code red is surely no mill Creek, and Arrow is surely no Criterion with their multiple repeated transfer gaffes. Arrow has 11 botched transfers in the USA alone so far and only 2 received replacement programs. Criterion has a remarkably better record than that!

Arrow won't license titles they can't get a good source for or fully restore and make a healthy profit; if Arrow was the only label there would be tons of movies that would never see the light of day. But Code Red did best Arrow handily in PQ on the one Region A title they both had rights for at the same time

I remember people heavily criticizing Raros 8 or so Fernando Di Leo releases after Arrow released one of them with better PQ, then claiming Arrow would release much better versions of all. Never happened, likely because Arrow couldn't significantly top Raro on the rest of them, so they just didn't release them. And the people who never bought the Raro releases missed out on some awesome movies as a result. By the way how is everyone enjoying Arrow's The House That Vanished? Oh, right. Well maybe someday it will come out... Or not like the rest of the DiLeo films and again you'll miss out on a good film.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by nitin

The PQ on Code and Dark Forces releases is not near or equal to Arrow (I am sure Ruined will be along to tell us all about Pit Stop but most people know why those releases look different and most people acknowledge that Code Red has the superior source and presentation for that title). They are also not working with 1000x budget on any given title.

Originally Posted by Cinema84

I can't remember the last Arrow Blu-ray that had green emulsion lines, scratches up the wazoo and hissy audio. Not saying these are necessarily bad things - I actually like the grindhouse look for grindhouse-type movies - but saying that PQ is similar between these two labels is like saying Mill Creek and Criterion have the same standards. Look, everybody has their own style so I'm not knocking Code Red but let's not cut everybody from the same cloth.

Originally Posted by Ruined

Arrow won't license titles they can't get a good source for or fully restore and make a healthy profit; if Arrow was the only label there would be tons of movies that would never see the light of day. But Code Red did best Arrow handily in PQ on the one Region A title they both had rights for at the same time

I remember people heavily criticizing Raros Fernando Di Leo releases after Arrow released one of them with better PQ, then claiming Arrow would release much better versions of all. Never happened, likely because Arrow couldn't significantly top Raro on the rest of them, so they just didn't release them. And the people who never bought the Raro releases missed out on some awesome movies as a result.

All of you are right on this issue, in your way.

When CR gets the perfect source material, the banana-transfer will beat or equal the competition. When the source material is lacking, Bill does the best he can to get us a film that we want to see, often combining it with another less than ideal transfer. If it is terrible, he'll slap it on DVD to hide some of the flaws, again, so we can see something that would, otherwise, not be released.

So, the green line sometimes is an issue, but Arrow wouldn't touch those films. They have a genuine belief that another line of films, specifically marketed as defective and underwhelming, would tarnish their brand too much. I don't think it would but they do. VS took the approach that a DVD line, the peeks, would allow them to hand out some of their disappointing transfers of films, that would otherwise simply occupy space in their archive, while preserving their brand, and didn't think it would tarnish them. Then they toyed with the idea of ending that line and people like me whined, "No!", and they changed their minds, again, remembering that these films just take up space on a hard drive once they are restored, if no one will tolerate imperfection in a release.

Bill doesn't scrap interesting movies just because there isn't a good source. David seems to have picked up that wonderful lesson and is putting out great transfers and not so great, rather than abandon interesting films to the scrap heap. Mirror Mirror II should really not look as good as it does on blu-ray, but it is not merely passable but, actually, a genuinely good transfer. In contrast, a couple of those grindhouse features, that were not put out by Bill, look like they were put out by Bill on DVD, and I thank DD for not giving up on those releases out of some misguided belief that "good enough" is no longer "good enough". There is room for both perfect and imperfect within a single label.

I get why people feel the need to defend their favorite label, whatever it is, but, when it comes to this issue, I hope you all recognize that, at the core, CR and DF will go for films no one else will touch, either because other labels insist on perfection or because their budget line consists of all porn. (I do love those silly peeks, some of the best comedy out there.)

[nitin]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Code red is surely no mill Creek, and Arrow is surely no Criterion with their multiple repeated transfer gaffes. Arrow has 11 botched transfers in the USA alone so far and only 2 received replacement programs. Criterion has a remarkably better record than that!

Arrow won't license titles they can't get a good source for or fully restore and make a healthy profit; if Arrow was the only label there would be tons of movies that would never see the light of day. But Code Red did best Arrow handily in PQ on the one Region A title they both had rights for at the same time

I remember people heavily criticizing Raros 8 or so Fernando Di Leo releases after Arrow released one of them with better PQ, then claiming Arrow would release much better versions of all. Never happened, likely because Arrow couldn't significantly top Raro on the rest of them, so they just didn't release them. And the people who never bought the Raro releases missed out on some awesome movies as a result. By the way how is everyone enjoying Arrow's The House That Vanished? Oh, right. Well maybe someday it will come out... Or not like the rest of the DiLeo films and again you'll miss out on a good film.

Those people could also buy the Di Leo films on DVD since the Di Leo set was largely upscales..

And way to shift the goalposts to Arrow v Criterion when that was not the initial comparison. And that initial comparison also made no point re selection of titles, it did however make a generalised comparison of picture quality.

And as predicted, you mentioned Pit Stop, but failed to mention the access to the different sources due to the different rightsholders.

[frakking toaster]

Originally Posted by nitin

Those people could also buy the Di Leo films on DVD since the Di Leo set was largely upscales..

And way to shift the goalposts to Arrow v Criterion when that was not the initial comparison. And that initial comparison also made no point re selection of titles, it did however make a generalised comparison of picture quality.

And as predicted, you mentioned Pit Stop, but failed to mention the access to the different sources due to the different rightsholders.

Please stop quoting it.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by nitin

Those people could also buy the Di Leo films on DVD since the Di Leo set was largely upscales..

Not in region a/1 as those DVDs were 2 locked, plus the BD sets were cheaper than buying the individual dvds. And they were not all upscales, but even ones that were are still better compressed than DVD. So overall the Raro BD sets were and years later still are the best buy for fans of Di Leo and Italian crime films.

And way to shift the goalposts to Arrow v Criterion when that was not the initial comparison. And that initial comparison also made no point re selection of titles, it did however make a generalised comparison of picture quality.

Actually that literally was the analogy of the poster I replied to, I guess you didn't read the post I quoted.

And as predicted, you mentioned Pit Stop, but failed to mention the access to the different sources due to the different rightsholders.

Arrow's transfer was crooked! If they were really the pinnacle of restoration that was something that could have been digitally fixed regardless of source.

[Marv Inc.]

Another great live stream with Banana man.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by frakking toaster

Please stop quoting it.

Sorry I know better but still fall for it.

[Hedji]

Wait, I'm totally confused. I skimmed the last page....

Am I supposed to picture Mathilda May nude every time Miribeau posts? I'm having difficulty because, you know, she had very little to say in Lifeforce.

[Marsupial Werewolf]

Bill, $13.99 for SCREAMS OF A WINTER NIGHT is a fair price.

[JasonMichael]

Originally Posted by miribeau

Young Hannah, best thing I ever bought from VS, totally worth the money.

What movie is this? I wanted to buy it based on your comment, but can't find it.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JasonMichael

What movie is this? I wanted to buy it based on your comment, but can't find it.

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Young-Ha...es-DVD/142678/

Maybe a mixup between VS and VCI?

[JasonMichael]

Originally Posted by Ruined

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Young-Ha...es-DVD/142678/

Maybe a mixup between VS and VCI?

Ah...thanks. I had never heard of this movie.