Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

I think I may have spotted it.
As a very young child, I was the proud owner of a Charlie Brown picture dictionary, and I'm sure Linus did feature in it.

It is always a pleasure to find someone who appreciates great literature, but seeing as you are fan of Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee I am not surprised that you are so well-rounded in the arts.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It is always a pleasure to find someone who appreciates great literature, but seeing as you are fan of Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee I am not surprised that you are so well-rounded in the arts.

Thank you Vilya. It's funny how the memory works sometimes - I can remember quite a few books from my childhood going back around 50 years ago, yet I'll probably forget what I read maybe 3 years ago!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

Thank you Vilya. It's funny how the memory works sometimes - I can remember quite a few books from my childhood going back around 50 years ago, yet I'll probably forget what I read maybe 3 years ago!

That's one of the "perks" of aging: the ability to forget more- more often.

[bhampton]

I did not remember Linus was from Peanuts until you mentioned it.

I was lucky to pick up Lucy on UHD BD used for $8 and I left the sticker on the case because I was so happy to score such a great deal. Even better , I've watched it many times and I"m pretty convinced it's in fine condition. I have been a big fan of Luc Besson since seeing La Femme Nikita in theaters late in the 1900's.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

For me personally, there is not a single player in production that I feel comfortable buying- although I am withholding judgment on the new Magnetars until I read some reviews.

Keep in mind that I am neutral in this. I just present facts as I understand them.

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

We were direct OPPO authorized dealers and when I asked why they are exiting the Blu-ray player business their reply was "It's no fun making premium Blu-ray players with no profit".

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

A few items for comparison (price paid and price adjusted for inflation in 2020): 1985 Pioneer LaserDisc CLD-900 - $1100 ($2657 in 2020) ● 1985 Sony Beta Hi-F SL-HF900 - $1050 ($2536 in 2020) ● 1997 Sony DVP-S7000 DVD player - $1000 ($1619 in 2020) ● 2006 Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player - $1050 ($1354 in 2020).

This player is less than the price of the Sony DVP-S7000 ($1855 in 2022) was but it can do much more than the Sony could.

I really do not want to pay nearly $10,000 for a Lumagen Radiance Pro but I sure would like to have its features.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Keep in mind that I am neutral in this. I just present facts as I understand them.

Over in the Magnetar thread Robert, a Magnetar dealer, states that the Magnetar UHD player has Burr-Brown PCM 1795 DAC processors; a processor that is over 13 years-old. It was a "lower cost" DAC when launched in 2009. How is the inclusion of a pair of 13 year-old bargain priced DACs a selling point in 2023 for a UHD player costing $1599?

I find it hard to believe that there aren't better DACs on the market by now.

"In 2009, we launched the PCM1795, which used the same analog section (current sources, voltage references etc) as the PCM1796, but with a new digital interpolation filter that could support 32bit data. the PCM1795 is a lower cost product. That has been a strong part of it's success."

-Dafydd Roche, TI PCM audio product definition engineer.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...cm1795.255358/

Oh, this chip sells for $15 brand new on ebay; premium indeed!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115278171768

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Terrifier 2 is way better than the first one so don’t be put off if you don’t enjoy the first.

i liked the first one and the trailer for the second one looks AMAZING.

So, ... I have to look into getting a copy.

EDIT - GOT IT ! Price was nice.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

i liked the first one and the trailer for the second one looks AMAZING.

So, ... I have to look into getting a copy.

It goes hard, be warned!

[Vilya]

My last disc for 2022 is this title of dubious merit:

I only paid $8.61 for it brand new and it completes my Thor quadrilogy, so I'm not out much even if it as awful as some here have said.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Did nobody get my Peanuts joke or did it just fly as well as a lead balloon? Oh well, thankfully I don't rely upon my stand-up routine for my income.

Is that what you get paid for your jokes?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Is that what you get paid for your jokes?

Thankfully not; I'd be even skinnier than I am now if that were the case.

I am practicing my act here, though, until I am discovered, you lucky dogs you!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Thankfully not; I'd be even skinnier than I am now if that were the case.

I am practicing my act here, though, until I am discovered, you lucky dogs you!

Speaking of dogs, I visited the doctors today.

Me: “Doctor, I keep thinking I’m a dog”

Doctor: How long Have you felt this way?

Me: Since I was a puppy.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It goes hard, be warned!

I'll bet you say that to all the women you date.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by CV19

I'll bet you say that to all the women you date.

You betcha!

[Vilya]

It is time for my always fascinating end of year disc report!

I added 170 4K UHD discs, 105 blu-rays, and 4 DVDs to my collection for a grand total of 279 discs purchased in 2022. Not bad for a year that was personally so challenging.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

How is the inclusion of a pair of 13 year-old bargain priced DACs a selling point in 2023 for a UHD player costing $1599?

Because the age of a device does not necessarily have anything to do with its performance. Digi-Key (here) list PCM1795DB as a current device. Click the spec sheet, not sure what one could do to improve the performance. In fact just to measure that level of performance, Dynamic Range: 123 dB, THD+N: 0.0005% would have to be done in a lab.

When one looks at the noise of a single resistor it makes some of these claims seem dubious. There is no way to get around thermal noise. To calculate the noise use Boltzmann constant (here). For deep space radio telescopes they use liquid nitrogen to cool the first stages of the receivers to reduce thermal noise.

The PCM1795DB also available from Mouser (here). Newark, Pioneer, Allied and others may have it.

If you look in the analog section of your AVR there is a good chance you will see some NE5532's and maybe some NE5534's IC’s. Segnetics introduced those in 1979.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It is time for my always fascinating end of year disc report!

I added 170 4K UHD discs, 105 blu-rays, and 4 DVDs to my collection for a grand total of 279 discs purchased in 2022. Not bad for a year that was personally so challenging.

I take my hat off to you Sir, that's a phenomenal purchase in a year. You've had a very rough time during 2022, and I sincerely hope that next year proves to be a smoother and a healthy year for you.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Because the age of a device does not necessarily have anything to do with its performance. Digi-Key (here) list PCM1795DB as a current device. Click the spec sheet, not sure what one could do to improve the performance. In fact just to measure that level of performance, Dynamic Range: 123 dB, THD+N: 0.0005% would have to be done in a lab.

When one looks at the noise of a single resistor it makes some of these claims seem dubious. There is no way to get around thermal noise. To calculate the noise use Boltzmann constant (here). For deep space radio telescopes they use liquid nitrogen to cool the first stages of the receivers to reduce thermal noise.

The PCM1795DB also available from Mouser (here). Newark, Pioneer, Allied and others may have it.

If you look in the analog section of your AVR there is a good chance you will see some NE5532's and maybe some NE5534's IC’s. Segnetics introduced those in 1979.

The Texas Instruments Burr-Brown PCM 1795 DAC was launched in 2009 and the Texas Instruments audio engineer that I quoted above plainly stated that it was a "lower cost" product even then.

Originally Posted by Vilya

"In 2009, we launched the PCM1795, which used the same analog section (current sources, voltage references etc) as the PCM1796, but with a new digital interpolation filter that could support 32bit data. the PCM1795 is a lower cost product. That has been a strong part of it's success."

-Dafydd Roche, TI PCM audio product definition engineer.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...cm1795.255358/

The Oppo 203, which retailed for just $550, used a newer and better DAC, namely the AKM 4458 launched in 2015.

The Oppo 205, which retailed for $1299, used two ESS Tech ES 9038 Pro Sabre DACs (launched in 2016).

For quick comparison, the Texas Instruments Burr-Brown PCM 1795 DAC has a maximum sampling rate of 32 bit/192 kHz.

The ESS Tech ES 9038 Pro Sabre has a maximum sampling rate of 32 bit/ 768 kHz.

The AKM 4458, used in the Oppo 203, also has a maximum sampling rate of 32 bit/ 768kHz.

The Burr-Brown PCM 1795 DAC is not listed on any of the Best Audio DAC Lists for 2022. It sells for $15 on friggin' ebay and that is what Magnetar chose to use in their $1599 4K UHD player.

https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs

Notice that the ESS Tech ES 9038 Pro Sabre, used in the Oppo 205, IS listed on that above list (item #8).

Some things do indeed age well, like you and me, but that is not the case with chipsets.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The Texas Instruments Burr-Brown PCM 1795 DAC was launched in 2009 and the Texas Instruments audio engineer that I quoted above plainly stated that it was a "lower cost" product even then.

As a tech person I do not care about device introduction dates, it is how well a device performs. Here is a test of the OPPO UDP-205. Not chosen because it was the Oppo but chosen because the test is fairly extensive. If you look at the distortion figures there is very little difference between 16/44.1 (CD) and 24/192. Next, look at the response, 16/44.1 is ruler flat to 20 KHz, bats may appreciate 24/192.

I provided some links to electronics supply houses that supply the PCM1795DB, I may be slow but fail to see the connection to the device being available on eBay.

One last point, I will assume you know 99% of UHD Blu-ray player users will connect it to a AVR or AVP via HDMI rendering the need for a internal DAC useless.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As a tech person I do not care about device introduction dates, it is how well a device performs. Here is a test of the OPPO UDP-205. Not chosen because it was the Oppo but chosen because the test is fairly extensive. If you look at the distortion figures there is very little difference between 16/44.1 (CD) and 24/192. Next, look at the response, 16/44.1 is ruler flat to 20 KHz, bats may appreciate 24/192.

I provided some links to electronics supply houses that supply the PCM1795DB, I may be slow but fail to see the connection to the device being available on eBay.

One last point, I will assume you know 99% of UHD Blu-ray player users will connect it to a AVR or AVP via HDMI rendering the need for a internal DAC useless.

The launch date is nowhere near as important as the Texas Instruments audio engineer saying that it was designed as a "lower cost" solution from the outset. It was NEVER a premium product, not then and certainly not now.

The availability on ebay is not the point; the price of $15 for this ancient DAC is the point. It was a cheap DAC in 2009 and it is even a cheaper DAC today.

A 4K disc player like this new Magnetar, priced comparably to the Oppo 205, should use DACs of the same or better quality and it simply does not. The new Magnetar uses cheap outdated 13 year-old DACs that they could get for a song. I expect premium products to use newer, better, and more technologically advanced parts, period.

Even the Panasonic DP-UB9000P1K, priced at a much lower $1000-$1100, uses better DACs than this new Magnetar. Panasonic uses the ESS ES9038Q2M (on the best of 2022 list) and the ES9026PRO.

I will likewise assume that you know that 99% of UHD player users will not spend $1600 for a disc spinner, too.