AMC's "The Walking Dead" Discussion (2010-2022)

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Yes, they were headed 18 miles out, remember?

The tough decision would be to abort the search, after Sophia was missing for 4 or more day...to face reality, and tell Carol, "the party is over". The soft decision was to continue to look. This was also stupid if you ask me.

I would say a situation like the Shane and Otis thing would be grey. We haven't yet seen Rick in a lose, lose situation. It'll be interesting to see if picks the lose that's the best for the group, or the lose that's the nicest.

We don't know it was just Ricks decision to let Randal go it could of been a group decision.

I can't see how you can fault Rick for looking for a lost little girl would you stop looking for your child after only 4 days? they weren't going anywhere , they were onto a good thing in staying at the farm and Carl was still recovering

I think you are grasping at straws a bit picking small faults with rick whilst trying to defend Shane after Shane actualy showed he's true colours wanting to just kill Randell. I think how quick he was to just shoot Randell only backs suspicion on how quick he was to shoot Otis

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

I'm not speculating. These are facts!

No ammunition
No flares
No element of surprise
One exhausted obese man
One tired cop, with some sort of injured ankle/foot
One hoard of walkers 40 seconds back that can no longer be thinned out

So you have 2 choices, believe Shane did what he had to do to ensure his and Carl's survival, or he killed Otis for no reason at all. It's that simple.

I choose to believe he did what he had to do, and would of done the same.

You realize that some of your "facts" are speculation right?

You are guessing on the 40 seconds bit entirely... because in TV time we have seen that it took us a couple of months (1 hour at a time) to watch them search for Sophia for just a few days... so no realistic way to extrapolate exactly how many seconds those zombies were behind them!

How do you know they couldn't fight them by other means? There was lots of junk around. In the latest episode Shane found a large wrench that he hurled at Rick... a pipe or some other thing was likely laying around there in that area and either he or Otis might could have taken out a few.

Speculation, yes... but no moreso than your own speculation.

And why are you so sure there are only 2 ways we viewers can interpret? I can think of several just off the top of my head.

1. Shane killed Otis for no reason (murder)
2. Shane rightfully sacrificed Otis because there was no other choice and he had completely thought this through.
3. Shane panicked and shot Otis, which may have been correct or not BUT certainly wasn't well thought out.
4. Shane killed Otis to save his own ass, not for Carl as he tries to convince himself... so not only murder but self-serving and not noble.

There are more variations.

Originally Posted by Grumpz

What I'm saying is we as viewers have 2 choices. Knowing only what we know, without speculation, you either think Shane did what he needed to do, to survive, or he flat out killed Otis for no reason.

There is no other way of looking at it.

I listed a few.

Originally Posted by HAMP

This kind of tragedy, hell no, I wouldn't want to bring in any kids. To bring a child with a virus or whatever you want to call it, is just crazy.

Even with a perfect enclosed community from the outside world, and if everyone has this disease, then that’s like living with a time bomb. Like stated before, in a household, someone dies in their sleep, comes back and eats the entire house.

War is different.?

Ok... so IF you aren't going to bring kids into the world, you might as well just kill yourself OR at least stop fighting the zombies. IF people stop procreating, then there's no point to doing anything since human civilization is going to end within that generation.

It's very short-sighted to say bringing kids into that world is bad... IF people always thought this way, you and I wouldn't be here today!

[The Rock]

I'm excited for the new episode tomorrow!

[-RONIN-]

Originally Posted by The Rock

I'm excited for the new episode tomorrow!

WOW I completely forgot it was tomorrow!.... NOT!

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by -RONIN-

WOW I completely forgot it was tomorrow!.... NOT!

Then I'm back to being an episode behind. From the preview and the spoiler posted a through the week it looks to be an awesome episode and I really should stay out of the thread but I don't think I can

[STARSCREAM]

Cant wait for tonight! . This is my fav show on.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by HDMe

You realize that some of your "facts" are speculation right?

You are guessing on the 40 seconds bit entirely... because in TV time we have seen that it took us a couple of months (1 hour at a time) to watch them search for Sophia for just a few days... so no realistic way to extrapolate exactly how many seconds those zombies were behind them!

How do you know they couldn't fight them by other means? There was lots of junk around. In the latest episode Shane found a large wrench that he hurled at Rick... a pipe or some other thing was likely laying around there in that area and either he or Otis might could have taken out a few.

Speculation, yes... but no moreso than your own speculation.

And why are you so sure there are only 2 ways we viewers can interpret? I can think of several just off the top of my head.

1. Shane killed Otis for no reason (murder)
2. Shane rightfully sacrificed Otis because there was no other choice and he had completely thought this through.
3. Shane panicked and shot Otis, which may have been correct or not BUT certainly wasn't well thought out.
4. Shane killed Otis to save his own ass, not for Carl as he tries to convince himself... so not only murder but self-serving and not noble.

There are more variations.



I listed a few.

I guess it would be considered speculation if I hadn't went back to the episode to verify. From the exact point where both Otis and Shane realize they have one round each and stop, there are 27 seconds with the scene ending with Otis having Shane by the hair. They then cut to Shane cutting his hair in the washroom, and return to the exact same point in the scene after...with Otis still having Shane's hair. Shane shoots Otis, fights him off and escapes 18 seconds later. For a total of 45 second of actual time.

So no, I'm not speculating..however I was off by 5 seconds when I rounded.

Again, we don't know if they could or couldn't fight with any other means, that would be to speculate! However I did just lose track counting over 15 walkers chasing them. These span across the entire screen and I can't see behind the wall of walkers. You may think it's speculation, but I think it's safe to say that walkers don't spread out and walk side by side, so It's highly probable that there are more walkers trailing that we can't see.

I'd like to know how two men can fight off no less than 15 walkers, with 2 bullets, an injured ankle and a obese man who's rather exhausted.

Anyway, back to your last point,
If Shane panicked, that would still be Shane thinking this needs to be done to survive, and if Shane truly only killed Otis to save his own ass, why did he fight with Otis for close to 40 seconds, to get the medical equipment? The walkers got to Otis in under 4 seconds, after Shane got away. Cutting it kind of close, if he only wanted to save himself, no?

So yes, you've clouded a few scenario's to make it look like there are more ways to look at it, but there aren't.

You think Shane did what Shane thought he must do to survive and return with the gear that save Carl's life, or he Shot Otis for no reason.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Then I'm back to being an episode behind. From the preview and the spoiler posted a through the week it looks to be an awesome episode and I really should stay out of the thread but I don't think I can

It'll be interesting to see if they

[Show spoiler]kill off, or kill and indicate the death of 2 main cast members in one episode.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Bageara

We don't know it was just Ricks decision to let Randal go it could of been a group decision.

I can't see how you can fault Rick for looking for a lost little girl would you stop looking for your child after only 4 days? they weren't going anywhere , they were onto a good thing in staying at the farm and Carl was still recovering

I think you are grasping at straws a bit picking small faults with rick whilst trying to defend Shane after Shane actualy showed he's true colours wanting to just kill Randell. I think how quick he was to just shoot Randell only backs suspicion on how quick he was to shoot Otis

No straw grasping at all, like any leader, they need to be challenged. I don't agree with some of the things Rick has done. However he is clearly best for the group. He's also starting to show a tougher side, that will only make him better.

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

It'll be interesting to see if they

[Show spoiler]kill off, or kill and indicate the death of 2 main cast members in one episode.

Yeah If that spoiler posted earlier this week is true we are supposed to see

[Show spoiler] Dale fataly injured then maybe even put out his misery tonite

, well you guys are, I'm not

Originally Posted by Grumpz

No straw grasping at all, like any leader, they need to be challenged. I don't agree with some of the things Rick has done. However he is clearly best for the group. He's also starting to show a tougher side, that will only make him better.

Yeah looks like Rick is toughening up and I'm sure we are going to see Rick make some questionable decisions in the future. He sure has to make some tough decisions in the comics that lead to some very unfortunate and disasterous events but I'm pretty sure in the world they live in now all roads eventually lead to disaster

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Again, we don't know if they could or couldn't fight with any other means, that would be to speculate! However I did just lose track counting over 15 walkers chasing them. These span across the entire screen and I can't see behind the wall of walkers. You may think it's speculation, but I think it's safe to say that walkers don't spread out and walk side by side, so It's highly probable that there are more walkers trailing that we can't see.

I'd like to know how two men can fight off no less than 15 walkers, with 2 bullets, an injured ankle and a obese man who's rather exhausted.

Go back to the first season...

Merle was trapped on the roof, handcuffed and zombies were surrounding the building and on their way trying to break through.

Merle sawed off his own arm, then somehow climbed down the outside of the building... then got away from a city full of zombies... all on his own without having anyone to sacrifice as bait... and he even stopped along the way to cauterize his wound at a stove.

So... Shane w/ a bum ankle that seemed to be fine after his drive back to the farm + tired Otis should have been fine.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by HDMe

Go back to the first season...

Merle was trapped on the roof, handcuffed and zombies were surrounding the building and on their way trying to break through.

Merle sawed off his own arm, then somehow climbed down the outside of the building... then got away from a city full of zombies... all on his own without having anyone to sacrifice as bait... and he even stopped along the way to cauterize his wound at a stove.

So... Shane w/ a bum ankle that seemed to be fine after his drive back to the farm + tired Otis should have been fine.

Did Merle have a city of walkers on his tale, or did he cut off his hand, climb in a building and cauterize his wound, leaving only 2 walkers dead? Did Merle have the element of surprise? Was he able to sneak around, just like Glenn, in and out, without being seen? You know the answer. You also know Shane and Otis clearly did not have that luxury. They actually got within a couple hundred feet of the trailer, when the walkers had no idea they were there.

Shane is seen limping at the end of the episode and in the next episode, but as you said, there's no way to tell how long that time frame is.

I do have a question though, have you ever sprained an ankle? I've done it twice. After a couple days, you are actually on your feet walking, but you are not running. I actually blew my ankle up rushing out the door on Dec 15 of this yr, heading to the Winnipeg Jets vs. Washington Capitals game. I was still able to walk from the parking lot at a leisurely pace, but It took 6 weeks to get back on the elliptical trainer. Remember, running is putting all of your weight on one leg, and alternating.

[HAMP]

I’m sure all of you know, I like to mess with people and argue about this show. The thing is, I just can’t argue about things that are not there. I think it’s beyond wrong for someone to try and bring things into an argument /discussion about thing that just isn’t there.

The whole ‘What if’, or ‘We couldn’t tell how far the truck was’ or anything that was not presented in the frame at that moment or even later, If everyone one wants to pull things out the air, then it’s useless to argue/discuss it.

Hell, I think Shane looked around and seen no other way of making it, but if I want to pull things out the air, I can easily say, shane and Otis had just 10 more feet to the Jeep with the auto 50 cal.

The thing is, I can’t say that, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT IN THE SCENE.

Can anyone argue/discuss their hatred for Shane for what he did without pulling things out the air on how he could have handled that situation?

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Did Merle have a city of walkers on his tale, or did he cut off his hand, climb in a building and cauterize his wound, leaving only 2 walkers dead? Did Merle have the element of surprise? Was he able to sneak around, just like Glenn, in and out, without being seen? You know the answer. You also know Shane and Otis clearly did not have that luxury. They actually got within a couple hundred feet of the trailer, when the walkers had no idea they were there.

Shane is seen limping at the end of the episode and in the next episode, but as you said, there's no way to tell how long that time frame is.

I do have a question though, have you ever sprained an ankle? I've done it twice. After a couple days, you are actually on your feet walking, but you are not running. I actually blew my ankle up rushing out the door on Dec 15 of this yr, heading to the Winnipeg Jets vs. Washington Capitals game. I was still able to walk from the parking lot at a leisurely pace, but It took 6 weeks to get back on the elliptical trainer. Remember, running is putting all of your weight on one leg, and alternating.

Lets bottom line this, shall we? Even with a bum ankle Shane would be faster than a walker. Lets be real here, the walkers a slow as shit and dumb as hell. There is no reason why Shane couldnt have escaped. I could tripod on two hands and one foot faster than walkers.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Lets bottom line this, shall we? Even with a bum ankle Shane would be faster than a walker. Lets be real here, the walkers a slow as shit and dumb as hell. There is no reason why Shane couldnt have escaped. I could tripod on two hands and one foot faster than walkers.

Stop it superman, your trying to tell us your in better shape then Shane?

It's always easier to say you can run faster then somene while your sitting on the couch.

Again, if Shane thought he could have made it with Otis. He would have.
Again, If Shane thought or knew he can make it, then he shot Otis for the fun of it.

If you feel Shane shot Otis to save his own life, then that means, he had no other means of getting away with his life.

It's still murder and wrong, but hey he is around for another day!

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Lets bottom line this, shall we? Even with a bum ankle Shane would be faster than a walker. Lets be real here, the walkers a slow as shit and dumb as hell. There is no reason why Shane couldnt have escaped. I could tripod on two hands and one foot faster than walkers.

I can't even bottom line that. We saw how fast Shane was moving, and we've 100% without speculation seen walkers move faster than that.

[Show spoiler]Watch the forest scene, after Sophia is flushed out from under the car. You can see for yourself, walkers go from slow, to a faced pace walk, to even a jog. I guess a meal makes them move quicker.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Stop it superman, your trying to tell us your in better shape then Shane?

Yes.

Again, if Shane thought he could have made it with Otis.

Bottom line. Shane is a puussy. Shane is coward. Cowardly puussies attack women, and we've seen that already. Shane panicked and overreacted and shot Otis. That is what cowardly puussies do. Thats what they showed us on the screen. He operates in a perpetual state of fear and insecurity.

Shane was the kind of guy that went around picking on smaller kids until someone stood up to him, then he went home crying to mom. He became a cop so he could "Boss people around" like he believes he is entitled to. Now that he is in a zombie apocolypse he is in over his head, and his cowardly puussy nature is making him panic and reactionary.

Let me say it one more time. Shane is a cowardly puusy with the fake tough guy exterior. Dime-a-dozen-wannabe badass.

Couldnt even shoot Sophia. Hes a spineless Nancy-ass-b!tch.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

I can't even bottom line that. We saw how fast Shane was moving, and we've 100% without speculation seen walkers move faster than that.

[Show spoiler]Watch the forest scene, after Sophia is flushed out from under the car. You can see for yourself, walkers go from slow, to a faced pace walk, to even a jog. I guess a meal makes them move quicker.

Then the candy ass b!tch needs to pick up the pace and stop whining about his ankle instead of shooting Otis. He needs to suck it up and be a man.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Yes.




Bottom line. Shane is a puussy. Shane is coward. Cowardly puussies attack women, and we've seen that already. Shane panicked and overreacted and shot Otis. That is what cowardly puussies do. Thats what they showed us on the screen. He operates in a perpetual state of fear and insecurity.

Shane was the kind of guy that went around picking on smaller kids until someone stood up to him, then he went home crying to mom. He became a cop so he could "Boss people around" like he believes he is entitled to. Now that he is in a zombie apocolypse he is in over his head, and his cowardly puussy nature is making him panic and reactionary.

Let me say it one more time. Shane is a cowardly puusy with the fake tough guy exterior. Dime-a-dozen-wannabe badass.

Couldnt even shoot Sophia. Hes a spineless Nancy-ass-b!tch.

Sure you are!!!

What about when he beat the $hit out Carol husband for smacking her in the first season.

You have a full hate for Shane, you are not paying attention to the situation and not making any sense.

Like I posted earlier, I cannot discuss with people who bring things into the picture that wasn't there. I might as well make up my own thought on what he could have done.

[Bageara]

I still say how quick Shane was to shoot Randal is a good incite into his psyche. He wasn't even in a tight life or death situation yet he was quite willing to exacute Randal there and then even against Ricks wishes, so c'mon, really, what chance would you have teamed up with a guy like Shane if he feels like he's in a tight spot?