Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[CelestialAgent]

Yeah I think £30 is the most I’d spend on an amaray, but it’s pushing it. I’d pay more for a steelbook or boxset or similar where it feels more worth the price.

[NormanicGrav]

The five Kitano films I ordered from the Terracotta sale dispatched!

[Show spoiler]

[roguejp]

Listening the 2nd podcast today (yeah, I'm behind but that will be taken care of this week as I have more time) and was shocked to hear that the Melancholic blu-ray had only sold 500 units. Such a surprising movie should deserve a better faith.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by roguejp

Listening the 2nd podcast today (yeah, I'm behind but that will be taken care of this week as I have more time) and was shocked to hear that the Melancholic blu-ray had only sold 500 units. Such a surprising movie should deserve a better faith.

still in the red on that, and that was a relatively cheap film to put out.
But that's why companies don't put out those sort of films on physical formats.
Saying that, most releases barely get to 1000 units sold anyways

[Stewynewy]

Just ordered from the Kitano sale. Dolls and Sea are blind buys. I normally don't like romance films, hoping Kitano's style can make these an exception here. Was hoping to get Kikujiro as well, but it was sold out.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by Stewynewy

Just ordered from the Kitano sale. Dolls and Sea are blind buys. I normally don't like romance films, hoping Kitano's style can make these an exception here. Was hoping to get Kikujiro as well, but it was sold out.

Ah, I'd try and get Kikujiro if I were you. Lovely film, one of my favourites from Kitano!

[Ben_C]

Originally Posted by Stewynewy

Just ordered from the Kitano sale. Dolls and Sea are blind buys. I normally don't like romance films, hoping Kitano's style can make these an exception here. Was hoping to get Kikujiro as well, but it was sold out.

A Scene at the Sea is an absolute gem, and definitely one of my favourite Kitano films. Funny, poignant, gentle, slice-of-life stuff, and Hisaishi’s score is just the icing on the cake (as is often the case).

[Gerby]

A Scene At The Sea just might be my favourite Kitano film.

[Richard A]

Originally Posted by Gerby

A Scene At The Sea just might be my favourite Kitano film.

Hard to say from my side but I can't think of many films that have left a deeper impression.

Its particular atmosphere really stuck with me, reinforced maybe by beach walks that I've taken on the Izu peninsula (although IIRC it was mainly filmed on the Chiba coast).

[whedon]

Originally Posted by roguejp

Listening the 2nd podcast today (yeah, I'm behind but that will be taken care of this week as I have more time) and was shocked to hear that the Melancholic blu-ray had only sold 500 units. Such a surprising movie should deserve a better faith.

Is it that shocking or surprising? I own Melancholic as I pretty much pre-order all Third Window Films but I've yet to watch it. It's a low budget Asian film from a no name director that was put out with little fanfare, that's not a slight on TWF as it would hardly justify a marketing campaign but outside of TWF and dedicated Japanese cinema fans who would know of the film? Every couple of years we'll get a Japanese film that breaks big, this year it's Drive my Car and before that it was Shoplifters. That Melancholic has sold 500 copies is a credit to it and not a slight, I'd imagine that over the years it will hit 1000+ copies as it's very much the kind of film that someone whose ordering something else will take a chance on.

[roguejp]

Originally Posted by whedon

Is it that shocking or surprising? I own Melancholic as I pretty much pre-order all Third Window Films but I've yet to watch it. It's a low budget Asian film from a no name director that was put out with little fanfare, that's not a slight on TWF as it would hardly justify a marketing campaign but outside of TWF and dedicated Japanese cinema fans who would know of the film? Every couple of years we'll get a Japanese film that breaks big, this year it's Drive my Car and before that it was Shoplifters. That Melancholic has sold 500 copies is a credit to it and not a slight, I'd imagine that over the years it will hit 1000+ copies as it's very much the kind of film that someone whose ordering something else will take a chance on.

Well, more shocking maybe because I really liked it and I'm sure more people will if they only gave it a chance. It just seems so unfair (for lack of a better word) sometimes that many people drool over everything that a label like Arrow or Indicator release, even the shitty ones, And yes, rating and liking a movie is always subjective, I know, but let's say that if Arrow had released Melancholic, I think it would be seen as previous unknown gem.

Not much we can do about it, only hope that people broaden their horizons after seeing some of the (mostly fine) Japanese movies from the other labels. And telling people on this forum that you saw a good movie.

Switching to other news, I just received my Terracotta order today without any customs note! And the packaging was great. If only they could some way lower their shipping costs a bit, I would order much more. Now I will use them for the more rare stuff and nice deals.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by whedon

Is it that shocking or surprising? I own Melancholic as I pretty much pre-order all Third Window Films but I've yet to watch it. It's a low budget Asian film from a no name director that was put out with little fanfare, that's not a slight on TWF as it would hardly justify a marketing campaign but outside of TWF and dedicated Japanese cinema fans who would know of the film? Every couple of years we'll get a Japanese film that breaks big, this year it's Drive my Car and before that it was Shoplifters. That Melancholic has sold 500 copies is a credit to it and not a slight, I'd imagine that over the years it will hit 1000+ copies as it's very much the kind of film that someone whose ordering something else will take a chance on.

To be honest, I wouldn't say that it was as unknown as you're making it out to be. It first opened and won an award at the Tokyo Film Festival (which is small, I agree), but immediately following that it played at Udine where it also won an award. Udine's cinema seats 1200 people and is always packed, so just there you have at least double the amount of people than who bought it over 2 years. Then it went on to play Japan Cuts and win an award, and they have a 300+ seat cinema which always sells out. Then onto Nippon Connection where it won an award and also seats a couple hundred. Then Camera Japan where it also won an award and seats a couple hundred too. Then the Vancouver Film Festival, then Shanghai Film festival, and on and on.
So thousands of people would have seen it, and many of the festivals it won awards at were awards voted on by the audience, so it was highly regarded by many people who saw it.
Of course, I don't expect every person who saw it in the cinema to buy it, but you also don't expect a film which has played so many film festivals, won so many awards and been acclaimed by so many audiences to just sell 500 copies. It's been on sale many times too and is the only release of it outside of Japan.

But that's just one of the reasons why there are so few distributors taking on anything but surefire hits or re-releases of already well known titles.

[whedon]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

To be honest, I wouldn't say that it was as unknown as you're making it out to be. It first opened and won an award at the Tokyo Film Festival (which is small, I agree), but immediately following that it played at Udine where it also won an award. Udine's cinema seats 1200 people and is always packed, so just there you have at least double the amount of people than who bought it over 2 years. Then it went on to play Japan Cuts and win an award, and they have a 300+ seat cinema which always sells out. Then onto Nippon Connection where it won an award and also seats a couple hundred. Then Camera Japan where it also won an award and seats a couple hundred too. Then the Vancouver Film Festival, then Shanghai Film festival, and on and on.
So thousands of people would have seen it, and many of the festivals it won awards at were awards voted on by the audience, so it was highly regarded by many people who saw it.
Of course, I don't expect every person who saw it in the cinema to buy it, but you also don't expect a film which has played so many film festivals, won so many awards and been acclaimed by so many audiences to just sell 500 copies. It's been on sale many times too and is the only release of it outside of Japan.

But that's just one of the reasons why there are so few distributors taking on anything but surefire hits or re-releases of already well known titles.

The problem is that these days there's so many festivals and so many awards that standing out from the crowd is getting harder and harder. I was aware of the film because I'd seen talk of it but the average film watcher isn't going to know of it as coverage of those festivals over here is going to be hard to come by. I've always found festival crowds an odd bunch, you'll often find packed screenings during a festival but if the same film had played the same theater a week beforehand you'd only have a fraction the attendance.

It's crappy that it's not sold better but outside of Asian Cinema fans and those who seek out more niche fare the market for a lot of smaller films is shrinking every year.

I'm hoping that Nippon and Udine continue to have online screenings going forward as it's the one aspect of Covid that's been great for film fans. I've managed to watch a number of Asian films that I'd otherwise have to spend a fortune importing, pirate or just never see. It's getting to the point where the only place to find things like Hand Rolled Cigarette is to catch it during it's festival run or wait a year for Netflix to dump it onto their service and not even bother with adding the title or using the poster and instead a random screengrab from the film.

Have you ever considered something like VS and offering a yearly membership? I'd happily pay up-front for 8, 10, 12 or how many releases a year you'd be putting out.

[giome]

Originally Posted by whedon

The problem is that these days there's so many festivals and so many awards that standing out from the crowd is getting harder and harder. I was aware of the film because I'd seen talk of it but the average film watcher isn't going to know of it as coverage of those festivals over here is going to be hard to come by. I've always found festival crowds an odd bunch, you'll often find packed screenings during a festival but if the same film had played the same theater a week beforehand you'd only have a fraction the attendance.

It's crappy that it's not sold better but outside of Asian Cinema fans and those who seek out more niche fare the market for a lot of smaller films is shrinking every year.

I'm hoping that Nippon and Udine continue to have online screenings going forward as it's the one aspect of Covid that's been great for film fans. I've managed to watch a number of Asian films that I'd otherwise have to spend a fortune importing, pirate or just never see. It's getting to the point where the only place to find things like Hand Rolled Cigarette is to catch it during it's festival run or wait a year for Netflix to dump it onto their service and not even bother with adding the title or using the poster and instead a random screengrab from the film.

Have you ever considered something like VS and offering a yearly membership? I'd happily pay up-front for 8, 10, 12 or how many releases a year you'd be putting out.

AFIK, people have proposed that in the past, but it would just be too difficult since the label is UK-based but Adam is Japan-based. Maybe a setup similar to Mondo Macabro could work? Pete Tombs is UK-based (I think), but the label is US-based, and they have Jared in the US that handles distribution. They also make their initial releases limited editions to encourage people to buy direct. But doing that required bringing someone else on board, either as an employee or a partner. Adam seems pretty savvy about the business, so I'm sure he's considered all those options. I would absolutely subscribe to a yearly package if it was offered, though!

And just to echo what everyone is saying about Melancholic: I picked it up, but purely because Third Window decided to release it and I trust them as curators. I'd never heard of it previously, despite being a Japanese film enthusiast. It never played my local festival, and I guess I trust them as curators too and I don't pay much attention to other festivals that I can't easily attend.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by whedon

The problem is that these days there's so many festivals and so many awards that standing out from the crowd is getting harder and harder. I was aware of the film because I'd seen talk of it but the average film watcher isn't going to know of it as coverage of those festivals over here is going to be hard to come by. I've always found festival crowds an odd bunch, you'll often find packed screenings during a festival but if the same film had played the same theater a week beforehand you'd only have a fraction the attendance.

It's crappy that it's not sold better but outside of Asian Cinema fans and those who seek out more niche fare the market for a lot of smaller films is shrinking every year.

I'm hoping that Nippon and Udine continue to have online screenings going forward as it's the one aspect of Covid that's been great for film fans. I've managed to watch a number of Asian films that I'd otherwise have to spend a fortune importing, pirate or just never see. It's getting to the point where the only place to find things like Hand Rolled Cigarette is to catch it during it's festival run or wait a year for Netflix to dump it onto their service and not even bother with adding the title or using the poster and instead a random screengrab from the film.

Have you ever considered something like VS and offering a yearly membership? I'd happily pay up-front for 8, 10, 12 or how many releases a year you'd be putting out.

Yes, I don't expect a film like Melancholic to be Shoplifters, but even 'Asian cinema fans' should sell more than 500 copies, especially when the majority of units were sold when it was on sale. You also have to remember that the 1200 people who paid to see it in Udine knew even less about the film, as did the majority of people who paid to see it at other festivals, so even with having less awards and less word of mouth by the time it reached a video release, you have thousands of people paying to see it. Of course, you're right that people are maybe only seeing it because it's at a festival, but then again there are many many more asian film fans worldwide who cannot attend these festivals and would be paying about the same price as a movie ticket to pickup the bluray. It's just that most people pirate nowadays to see the films they want to, which may not detract as much from the sales of a major title, which would sell enough copies otherwise, but for a smaller title it just makes it not worthwhile to put it out on a physical format. And that's why there are less and less companies out there putting out non guaranteed sellers on physical.
And why I put out more 'classics' like Tsukamoto, etc nowadays, than putting out all the small Japanese indie films I used to (despite many people asking me 'why don't you put out more Japanese quirky indies like you used to).

yearly membership too complicated when I'm not a big enough company to be able to plan as easily on what titles and how things are to be scheduled. VS are a massive company compared to me, and being at the mercy of companies like Arrow who can (and often do) change their commissions and terms at will, it makes it very hard to plan something a year ahead or do some sort of membership scheme like that

[whedon]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Yes, I don't expect a film like Melancholic to be Shoplifters, but even 'Asian cinema fans' should sell more than 500 copies, especially when the majority of units were sold when it was on sale. You also have to remember that the 1200 people who paid to see it in Udine knew even less about the film, as did the majority of people who paid to see it at other festivals, so even with having less awards and less word of mouth by the time it reached a video release, you have thousands of people paying to see it. Of course, you're right that people are maybe only seeing it because it's at a festival, but then again there are many many more asian film fans worldwide who cannot attend these festivals and would be paying about the same price as a movie ticket to pickup the bluray. It's just that most people pirate nowadays to see the films they want to, which may not detract as much from the sales of a major title, which would sell enough copies otherwise, but for a smaller title it just makes it not worthwhile to put it out on a physical format. And that's why there are less and less companies out there putting out non guaranteed sellers on physical.
And why I put out more 'classics' like Tsukamoto, etc nowadays, than putting out all the small Japanese indie films I used to (despite many people asking me 'why don't you put out more Japanese quirky indies like you used to).

yearly membership too complicated when I'm not a big enough company to be able to plan as easily on what titles and how things are to be scheduled. VS are a massive company compared to me, and being at the mercy of companies like Arrow who can (and often do) change their commissions and terms at will, it makes it very hard to plan something a year ahead or do some sort of membership scheme like that

I think trying to use film festival buzz or ticket sales to look at possible sales is always going to disappoint unless it's something with huge appeal and breaks out. The number of films I've seen play to huge audiences and acclaim at festivals and then have their releases canceled due to lack of interest is pretty big.

Brexit has also had a huge impact on sales I would imagine. Most people use Amazon and if you live outside the UK they are an absolute nightmare to use right now. For a lot of people, Amazon are the easiest and in many cases only way to get certain releases but when items are not available to order outside the UK it's a pain. Crazy Thunder Road only appeared as shippable to Ireland the week before release which makes pre-ordering a pain.

I know that Terracotta and Arrow carry your stuff but Terracotta shipping is expensive and I generally use them if buying a couple of things as 1 item is often far more expensive there than Amazon. Arrow, well they've turned into a pretty awful label support wise so I'd only use them if they had a sale on, emailed them and Cine Asia last year about their products not being on Amazon and the Arrow site not removing Vat if ordering to Ireland, their response was along the lines of "and what do you want us to do about it." Cine Asia went above and beyond and let me buy items directly even though they don't even have a storefront.

By a membership I mean something like saying we plan to release 5 or 6 titles this year, you can pre-order them. If more are released then those can be bought separate or if only 4 titles are released then it could be one from the next year.

Personally I'd love to see more sets like New Directors, I think that for smaller indie films people may be more willing to take a risk if there's a couple of things in a release. Or even thematic sets, stick some smaller indie title in with a Sono or Kitano or Tsukamoto, though that would be far more trouble than it was worth I'd imagine.

Is Mermaid Legend something that you would ever consider releasing? Been trying to get it for years but all I can find is a DVD which is pretty much unwatchable

Or any of the Matsumoto films, would love a boxset with his 4 features and Sasuke. Documental seems to do well on Amazon so would imagine that he's starting to be known outside of Japan because of it.

Would love more Obayashi, don't think that Bound for the Fields, the Mountains, and the Seacoast has been released on Blu-Ray anywhere. A second boxset would be great, so many of his that are hard to come by, The Drifting Classroom, His Motorbike, Her Island, Miss Lonely, Sada, School in the Crosshairs and so on.

[Yami]

Originally Posted by whedon

Would love more Obayashi, don't think that Bound for the Fields, the Mountains, and the Seacoast has been released on Blu-Ray anywhere. A second boxset would be great, so many of his that are hard to come by, The Drifting Classroom, His Motorbike, Her Island, Miss Lonely, Sada, School in the Crosshairs and so on.

Third Window are releasing His Motorbike Her Island, School in the Crosshairs, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, and The Island Closest to Heaven later this year.

I would guess that Bound for the Fields, the Mountains, and the Seacoast is with Toho as it was an ATG production and I don't think Third Window usually deal with them.

[whedon]

Originally Posted by Yami

Third Window are releasing His Motorbike Her Island, School in the Crosshairs, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, and The Island Closest to Heaven later this year.

I would guess that Bound for the Fields, the Mountains, and the Seacoast is with Toho as it was an ATG production and I don't think Third Window usually deal with them.

I know they are releasing more of his work, just hoping that it'll be a boxset rather than individual releases and showing that there is a want for more Obayashi.

[xiiidan]

It is a boxset.

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by whedon

Is it that shocking or surprising? I own Melancholic as I pretty much pre-order all Third Window Films but I've yet to watch it. It's a low budget Asian film from a no name director that was put out with little fanfare, that's not a slight on TWF as it would hardly justify a marketing campaign but outside of TWF and dedicated Japanese cinema fans who would know of the film? Every couple of years we'll get a Japanese film that breaks big, this year it's Drive my Car and before that it was Shoplifters. That Melancholic has sold 500 copies is a credit to it and not a slight, I'd imagine that over the years it will hit 1000+ copies as it's very much the kind of film that someone whose ordering something else will take a chance on.

In case anyone wants to make it 502 copies, Rarewaves have it at a great price:

Melancholic £7.79