Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

Hmm, I at least agree with you on the Apple thing...

I do collect both UV and iTunes (see my collections to the left) but I definitely prefer Apple. I generally buy iTunes movies when they are on sale for $4.99, or if a Touchstone/MGM is $9.99/$12.99 depending on the sale and the price. I also redeem every iTunes code that comes with a movie. I do not buy MGM/Touchstone/etc (any non-UV studio movies) on Vudu. Only iTunes. If Touchstone, etc. eventually join Disney Movies Anywhere, which I expect, those movies will transfer to Vudu at that point. Until then, oh well.

Apple's storefront and system is far superior. I am grateful they even include iTunes codes with any movies at all lol. It's unlike them honestly. It does suck for the Blu-rays that don't come with iTunes codes, like from Sony titles, and for those I redeem at and use Vudu happily. I also collect UHD on Vudu. If those titles go on sale at $4.99 I will buy them on Itunes even if I own them in Vudu via code or D2D.

It doesn't bother me that I use two ecosystems. I also share my Vudu account with family/friends and they love it. UV won't likely last forever but it's not ending anytime soon. And if it ends, studios will move from UV to a digital locker type service like Disney Movies Anywhere, in which case your movies will then transfer to iTunes or Amazon just as they do for Disney.

Amazon and iTunes have no incentive to join UV. I would say they are hoping studios individually join/create their own DMA style lockers if anything.

I do think Google Play should join UV, and that would be a boost. I doubt it happening but they are way behind in sales compared to those two and I think it would be a smart move for them. A lot of Vudu users would definitley prefer Google Play over time, I think. Vudu does have the benefit of being owned by Walmart. Walmart is HUGE. Do not underestimate this. Vudu/UV can be kept afloat by Walmart for a LONG time even if UV is fading.

But would they want to keep it going if Digital HD sales continue to fall? There has to be a profit in the EST side.

[Texan26]

Digital HD sales aren't falling and were never falling.

http://www.digitaltvnews.net/?p=29139

Digital HD up in 2017:

"EST – marketed as Digital HD – started the year strong, with growth of 13 percent versus the prior year. Driven by a 30 percent increase in the sale of theatrical content, the channel grew more in the first quarter of 2017 than in any quarter last year. Growth was especially strong among animated movies, underscoring how families are increasingly collecting digital versions of films they enjoy. Some of the best-selling EST family titles included Moana (Walt Disney Studios), Trolls (20th Century Fox Home Entertainment), Sing (Universal Pictures Home Entertainment), Beauty and the Beast (Walt Disney Studios), The Secret Life of Pets (Universal Pictures Home Entertainment) and Storks (Warner Bros. Home Entertainment)."

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Digital HD sales aren't falling and were never falling.

http://www.digitaltvnews.net/?p=29139

Digital HD up in 2017:

"EST – marketed as Digital HD – started the year strong, with growth of 13 percent versus the prior year. Driven by a 30 percent increase in the sale of theatrical content, the channel grew more in the first quarter of 2017 than in any quarter last year. Growth was especially strong among animated movies, underscoring how families are increasingly collecting digital versions of films they enjoy. Some of the best-selling EST family titles included Moana (Walt Disney Studios), Trolls (20th Century Fox Home Entertainment), Sing (Universal Pictures Home Entertainment), Beauty and the Beast (Walt Disney Studios), The Secret Life of Pets (Universal Pictures Home Entertainment) and Storks (Warner Bros. Home Entertainment)."

They absolutely were falling. There are several reports linked in this very forum. They were down to 5.6% from double figures for most of the year.

So, absolutely they were falling. Going from double digits to single digits is falling.

That is a good start to the year no doubt. Digital HD desperately needed a good start to the year. But don't forget, it's a hit based format, just like Bluray. It will be a wildly fluctuating year, just like last year. If those figures stay positive by Q4, maybe Digital Had can hang on a few years, but don't get carried away about one good quarter.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

They absolutely were falling. There are several reports linked in this very forum. They were down to 5.6% from double figures for most of the year.

So, absolutely they were falling. Going from double digits to single digits is falling.

That is a good start to the year no doubt. Digital HD desperately needed a good start to the year. But don't forget, it's a hit based format, just like Bluray. It will be a wildly fluctuating year, just like last year. If those figures stay positive by Q4, maybe Digital Had canhsmg on a few years, but don't get carried away about one good quarter.

5.6% increase from the previous year is not falling. It's not a big increase but it's not falling. It was still an increase and not a negative percentage. It just wasn't as big an increase as previous years.

Physical sales (DVD and blu-ray) were down 14.3% in the first quarter. Now that is falling.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/res...reased-2-40026

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, and Apple is counting on that. They love you guys that all you want are Apple stuff, but for the rest of us UV is a GodSent. We are not locked into one Company, we can Stream from anyone. So you guys are like Clones, the Blind leading the Blind right into the Abyss!

Originally Posted by Steedeel

One thing I am not is a clone! . I just happen to love Apple products. They have always worked great for me. I also have Dell XPS laptop and a Steam account so there is no bias from me. Apple and Amazon give me the option to watch on a huge screen. UV does not due to a lack of providers. Sorry U.V but your ship has sailed.

The usual misconceptions are appearing again. Apple couldn't survive this long on loyal sheep. You need a great quality product to get that support in the first place. Apples stance with films were, we don't want buffering and quality drops.

Originally Posted by doctor_who

Hmm, I at least agree with you on the Apple thing...

Amazon and iTunes have no incentive to join UV. I would say they are hoping studios individually join/create their own DMA style lockers if anything.

I do think Google Play should join UV, and that would be a boost. I doubt it happening but they are way behind in sales compared to those two and I think it would be a smart move for them. A lot of Vudu users would definitley prefer Google Play over time, I think. Vudu does have the benefit of being owned by Walmart. Walmart is HUGE. Do not underestimate this. Vudu/UV can be kept afloat by Walmart for a LONG time even if UV is fading.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But would they want to keep it going if Digital HD sales continue to fall? There has to be a profit in the EST side.

I don't know where you get the idea that Digital HD Sales are falling, here in The States it's the only way to buy. You guys forgot Sony with their UHD Movie Collection, and they are part of the UV Family. Sorry I called you Apple Lovers Clones, but I remember some years back when Jobs was still at the Helm. Apple came out with this 1984 Type Commercial, and these Zombie like Clones followed every Apple Command. So I go way back to the PC Apple Wars, I still build my own Windows WorkStations. I don't even have an iPhone, mine is a Windows 10 Phone. I don't see UV going anywhere, especially with the new Smart UHD TV's your Movie Collection is only a Click away!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

5.6% increase from the previous year is not falling. It's not a big increase but it's not falling. It was still an increase and not a negative percentage. It just wasn't as big an increase as previous years.

Physical sales (DVD and blu-ray) were down 14.3% in the first quarter. Now that is falling.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/res...reased-2-40026

Falling is falling. A new format would really have to bomb to be minus at this stage. My original statement is true. Sales were indeed down by Q4. I take it a lot of animated films drive those improved figures for this year. Like I said, let's see where we are by Q4? If a similar pattern emerges, Digital HD will be back in single digits.

Disc sales are expected to be falling. They are both mature formats. Plus, DVD is thrown in with Blu-Ray. Bluray was actually up by a very small percent last year. It did much better than a lot of industry people thought it would.
Considering what numbers DVD were doing in their prime, those Digital figures aren't great to be honest. The real driving force seems to be Subscription streaming. I imagine that will be the case going forward.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't know where you get the idea that Digital HD Sales are falling, here in The States it's the only way to buy. You guys forgot Sony with their UHD Movie Collection, and they are part of the UV Family. Sorry I called you Apple Lovers Clones, but I remember some years back when Jobs was still at the Helm. Apple came out with this 1984 Type Commercial, and these Zombie like Clones followed every Apple Command. So I go way back to the PC Apple Wars, I still build my own Windows WorkStations. I don't even have an iPhone, mine is a Windows 10 Phone. I don't see UV going anywhere, especially with the new Smart UHD TV's your Movie Collection is only a Click away!

It's not a idea. It's a fact in black and white print. Do your research. Those new figures have only been released in the last few days. I'm not a insider. I didn't have access to those. Actually, it's Netflix that has become the success story in the states. The concept of paying for one movie when you can have a buffet of choice is I am afraid, a dying one.

By the way, Windows phone? I would be keeping that quiet if I were you sir.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't know where you get the idea that Digital HD Sales are falling, here in The States it's the only way to buy. You guys forgot Sony with their UHD Movie Collection, and they are part of the UV Family. Sorry I called you Apple Lovers Clones, but I remember some years back when Jobs was still at the Helm. Apple came out with this 1984 Type Commercial, and these Zombie like Clones followed every Apple Command. So I go way back to the PC Apple Wars, I still build my own Windows WorkStations. I don't even have an iPhone, mine is a Windows 10 Phone. I don't see UV going anywhere, especially with the new Smart UHD TV's your Movie Collection is only a Click away!

The same Sony that don't have UV enabled films in their store on PS4 you mean?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Falling is falling. A new format would really have to bomb to be minus at this stage. My original statement is true. Sales were indeed down by Q4. I take it a lot of animated films drive those improved figures for this year. Like I said, let's see where we are by Q4? If a similar pattern emerges, Digital HD will be back in single digits.

Disc sales are expected to be falling. They are both mature formats. Plus, DVD is thrown in with Blu-Ray. Bluray was actually up by a very small percent last year. It did much better than a lot of industry people thought it would.
Considering what numbers DVD were doing in their prime, those Digital figures aren't great to be honest. The real driving force seems to be Subscription streaming. I imagine that will be the case going forward.

Steedeel calling fake news on Home media magazine!

I'm sure digital will have a strong year with Logan, Beauty and the Beast, guardians 2 and wonder woman on the way this year. (disc too of course)

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Falling is falling. A new format would really have to bomb to be minus at this stage. My original statement is true. Sales were indeed down by Q4. I take it a lot of animated films drive those improved figures for this year. Like I said, let's see where we are by Q4? If a similar pattern emerges, Digital HD will be back in single digits.

Disc sales are expected to be falling. They are both mature formats. Plus, DVD is thrown in with Blu-Ray. Bluray was actually up by a very small percent last year. It did much better than a lot of industry people thought it would.
Considering what numbers DVD were doing in their prime, those Digital figures aren't great to be honest. The real driving force seems to be Subscription streaming. I imagine that will be the case going forward.

How is it falling? The percentage was still positive. Let's say I made $100 in sales one year, and then the next year, I made $150. That's a 50% increase. But the next year, I made $157.50. That's only a 5% increase. The percentage is lower than that 50% but i still went up.

So if the percentage only goes up in single digits, it's still going up from the previous year.

And those same animated movies came out in blu-ray.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

How is it falling? The percentage was still positive. Let's say I made $100 in sales one year, and then the next year, I made $150. That's a 50% increase. But the next year, I made $157.50. That's only a 5% increase. The percentage is lower than that 50% but i still went up.

So if the percentage only goes up in single digits, it's still going up from the previous year.

And those same animated movies came out in blu-ray.

If sales are in double figures and they drop to single figures, that is falling.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Steedeel calling fake news on Home media magazine!

I'm sure digital will have a strong year with Logan, Beauty and the Beast, guardians 2 and wonder woman on the way this year. (disc too of course)

How am I calling fake news? I have already acknowledged that those are new figures just in for Q1 this year.

I can't comment on something I haven't seen. It's only a few days old.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

How am I calling fake news? I have already acknowledged that those are new figures just in for Q1 this year.

I can't comment on something I haven't seen. It's only a few days old.

Because you called in INCREASE falling.

Besides the only big release from the 1st quarter was Rogue One.

Now all the movies from the first 3 months of the year are starting to come out and the big hitters from the summer season will be out in fall so I expect some growth overall for the year.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If sales are in double figures and they drop to single figures, that is falling.

You were talking about sales percentages. Which you brought up the 5.6% of one quarter. That was still an increase. I don't think you understand percentages. Digital HD sales never dropped from double figures to single figures. The percentages of how much they went up from double to single percentage is not equal to sales dropping like I mentioned in my example. Now if that 5.6% was a negative percentage than sales did go down but it wasn't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Because you called in INCREASE falling.

Besides the only big release from the 1st quarter was Rogue One.

Now all the movies from the first 3 months of the year are starting to come out and the big hitters from the summer season will be out in fall so I expect some growth overall for the year.

Where did I do that?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

You were talking about sales percentages. Which you brought up the 5.6% of one quarter. That was still an increase. I don't think you understand percentages. Digital HD sales never dropped from double figures to single figures. The percentages of how much they went up from double to single percentage is not equal to sales dropping like I mentioned in my example. Now if that 5.6% was a negative percentage than sales did go down but it wasn't.

That percentage still fell lol. Are you a spin doctor?

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That percentage still fell lol. Are you a spin doctor?

Seriously? You don't understand percentages.

My example again:
Let's say I made $100 in sales one year, and then the next year, I made $150. That's a 50% increase. But the next year, I made $157.50. That's only a 5% increase. The percentage is lower than that 50% but i still went up.

Are you saying the year i made $157.50 is worse than the year I made $150 because my sales only went up 5% and the previous year i went up 50%?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Where did I do that?

"Electronic sellthrough, aka Digital HD, was the key revenue driver, with sales up 13% to $572 million, from $505 million a year ago. Digital sales of theatrical titles — notably animated — were up 30%"

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

"Electronic sellthrough, aka Digital HD, was the key revenue driver, with sales up 13% to $572 million, from $505 million a year ago. Digital sales of theatrical titles — notably animated — were up 30%"

Yes. That is correct. So where did I say they haven't? Do you realise that information is new and had only just been released for Q1 this year.
The previous statements I made were from q4 last year. Nobody knew those figures until a few days ago. You must have missed the post where I acknowledged that fact.

[Texan26]

And even if the percentage up is at a single digit in the next quarter like Q4 last year, it would still be an increase. Simple math.