Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by Ender14

All this does is replace the screen.

Ha ha ha. You're kidding right?

• Vision Pro can transform any room into your own personal theater. Expand your movies, shows, and games up to the perfect size while feeling like you’re part of the action with Spatial Audio. And with more pixels than a 4K TV for each eye, you can enjoy stunning content wherever you are — whether that’s a long flight or the couch at home.
• Turn your room into a personal movie theater with the Cinema Environment. Enjoy shows and movies at the frame rate and aspect ratio the filmmaker intended with immersive Spatial Audio. Or use a majestic Environment like Mt. Hood to make your screen feel 100 feet wide.
• All‑new Apple Immersive Videos are 180-degree 3D 8K recordings captured with Spatial Audio — putting you right inside the action and transporting you to places you’ve never been.
• Your favorite movies and TV shows from Apple TV+ and other streaming services are available on Vision Pro.
• visionOS games in Apple Arcade offer completely new ways to play by using the space around you. Find over 100 of your favorite iPad games, and also play using Bluetooth game controllers.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Ha ha ha. You're kidding right?

• Vision Pro can transform any room into your own personal theater. Expand your movies, shows, and games up to the perfect size while feeling like you’re part of the action with Spatial Audio. And with more pixels than a 4K TV for each eye, you can enjoy stunning content wherever you are — whether that’s a long flight or the couch at home.
• Turn your room into a personal movie theater with the Cinema Environment. Enjoy shows and movies at the frame rate and aspect ratio the filmmaker intended with immersive Spatial Audio. Or use a majestic Environment like Mt. Hood to make your screen feel 100 feet wide.
• All‑new Apple Immersive Videos are 180-degree 3D 8K recordings captured with Spatial Audio — putting you right inside the action and transporting you to places you’ve never been.
• Your favorite movies and TV shows from Apple TV+ and other streaming services are available on Vision Pro.
• visionOS games in Apple Arcade offer completely new ways to play by using the space around you. Find over 100 of your favorite iPad games, and also play using Bluetooth game controllers.

I watched the video and read all the marketing hype as well. So you're saying the speakers built into the headset will be able to replace a full Atmos sound system? Apple marketing has you right where they want you don't they.

This does look amazing, I'm not arguing that. And while the concept may indeed be "the future of home entertainment", at that price point it's only going to be adopted by less than 1% of the population. That's not a very bright future by any metric.

The biggest problem people have with VR (and 3D for that matter) is not price but having to wear something on their head. Until this technology is reduced to the form factor of glasses any device is going to be a hard sell for the general public. At that price? Nigh on impossible.

At this point in time this Apple device is a great proof of concept for the future. Nothing more.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I watched the video and read all the marketing hype as well. So you're saying the speakers built into the headset will be able to replace a full Atmos sound system? Apple marketing has you right where they want you don't they.

This does look amazing, I'm not arguing that. And while the concept may indeed be "the future of home entertainment", at that price point it's only going to be adopted by less than 1% of the population. That's not a very bright future by any metric.

The biggest problem people have with VR (and 3D for that matter) is not price but having to wear something on their head. Until this technology is reduced to the form factor of glasses any device is going to be a hard sell for the general public. At that price? Nigh on impossible.

At this point in time this Apple device is a great proof of concept for the future. Nothing more.

Have you ever listened to Spatial Audio via Apple AirPods or other Atmos-capable headsets which track your head movements? Not to mention Active Noise Cancellation (ANC). It's phenomenal now, just think what it will be in the years ahead.

As far as the price and as I've stated elsewhere, there will be a cheaper headset(s) for simply consuming entertainment, which is why the launch device is named Pro.

My guess is the launch price is high simply because Apple knows it will sell out at any price by those with discretionary income to burn.

Other VR companies, movie theater owners and TV/gaming console manufacturers soiled themselves en masse during the keynote.

They've just been given their obsolete slips with no way to compete.

Apple owns an entire technology vertical with no outside variables, which companies such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Sony can only dream of as it relates to the integration of software and hardware.

Game over for the them once Apple's long game is done.

[bhampton]

Who here is going to buy the Apple VR thingie ?

Hopefully cgpublic but anyone else ?

Not me. One reality is enough for me.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Other VR companies, movie theater owners and TV/gaming console manufacturers soiled themselves en masse during the keynote.

Ewww ... Reminder don't go to Apple events in person.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Have you ever listened to Spatial Audio via Apple AirPods or other Atmos-capable headsets which track your head movements?

I have.

I have the Apple Music version of 50th Anniversary Dark Side of the Moon with ATMOS and I have the Blu Ray with lossless ATMOS.

You may be surprised which one is much better.
(Not the Apple one)

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Priced at $3499, launches early next year and will run most iOS/iPadOS apps.

So Crossy Road ?.... Does sound like a great deal!

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I have.

I have the Apple Music version of 50th Anniversary Dark Side of the Moon with ATMOS and I have the Blu Ray with lossless ATMOS.

You may be surprised which one is much better.
(Not the Apple one)

Better in what way? I ask because Atmos is really dependent on your set-up.

I would argue that object-oriented sound technology, e.g., Atmos, is superior in the home via a headset than via a soundbar, which is how most consumers listen to Atmos at present.

There are simply too many variables in a non-dedicated room using speakers, up firing or height, for Atmos to deliver a consistent experience.

Adding to that one really needs to correctly employ room correction and or hire a professional to get it right.

The bottom line here is Vision Pro will deliver a home entertainment experience unlike, as opposed to 'better' however you may define it, than present home theater setups and certainly represents a unique path forward.

For example, Vision Pro features a pair of custom micro‑OLED displays deliver more pixels than a 4K TV to each eye — for stunning clarity.

Practically non-existent light diffusion as the image, in 8K, is right in your eyes.

That's right. 8K.

This changes everything, never mind home entertainment, but filmmaking as well.

Today I saw the future.

I can't wait.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Apple owns an entire technology vertical with no outside variables, which companies such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Sony can only dream of as it relates to the integration of software and hardware.

Game over for the them once Apple's long game is done.

Other companies will release similar headsets and may even improve upon this. Apple has a bad habit of releasing an innovative product and then coasting on it for many years while other companies innovate and improve upon it. I have no doubt the same will happen here.

I don't like Apple, don't own any of their products and don't ever plan to. There will be plenty of other comparable products. Apple is just the first out of the gate.

And VR headsets have been capable of showing movies on a massive virtual screen in 3D for years. I tried it out myself over 4 years ago. But the technology wasn't there yet as the resolution was too low. The only thing innovative Apple did with this was bring 4K+ resolution to the game.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

And if you want to watch Avatar & Avatar The Way of Water, along with future sequels, in 4K/8K 3D/Spatial at home, there will likely be only one answer at launch, streaming on Disney+.

3D on Disney+

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Ender14

So VR has barely made a dent at it's current cost but they expect this to launch VR/AR into the mainstream. I don't care if it does my laundry, washes my car and mows the lawn, that price is a non-starter. Apple has it's head so far up it's backside that it literally has crap for brains.

Having been invested in VR from day one (I bought first gen VR on launch day) I adore the tech. To me, this is about fitting all the top end bells and whistles into a high end headset, then as time goes by, filtering some of those features down to what resembles (or even is) a pair of glasses. Apple seem to believe VR will always be for the home only and AR/MR is for outside and the workplace.
They will get developers prepared with their OS and AR functions, then in time, work out the rest for mass consumption.

I don’t think Apple believes for one second, they will sell millions of these devices, it will absolutely be niche. However, they are building the foundation for a touch and vision interface that will, in my opinion, dominate by early next decade.

As mentioned, there are many questions. How does it pipe audio to an external source, how does more then one person watch, will they charge extra for a larger screen film experience (the display can be altered to suit the experience), what about audio quality on the headset, what about safety issues (listening to speakers near one’s ears for long periods of time).

Just my opinion mate, I totally agree about the price, but it’s just a starting point and more for enthusiasts and developers at this stage.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

That's right. 8K.

Do you have an 8K display? I do.

My dedicated HT also has a 7.2.4 ATMOS speaker setup with room correction and sound treatments of course. In terms of the differences between the lossy ATMOS mix on Apple music vs the lossless ATMOS mix on Blu Ray - It's similar to the difference you already hear in iTunes movies vs Blu Ray and UHD BD. If you can't hear the difference then that's fine but I can and I know what is better for me.

The mix is also different. For example Money is very bass heavy on the Apple Music mix ... just a different mix.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

3D on Disney+

Don’t worry, he will be posting yearly (quarterly?) updates about how VR sales are looking bad and VR/AR movies are dead in the water before too long. I give it 6 months!

(Seriously though, I do think AR has a future).

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Other companies will release similar headsets and may even improve upon this. Apple has a bad habit of releasing an innovative product and then coasting on it for many years while other companies innovate and improve upon it. I have no doubt the same will happen here.

I don't like Apple, don't own any of their products and don't ever plan to. There will be plenty of other comparable products. Apple is just the first out of the gate.

And VR headsets have been capable of showing movies on a massive virtual screen in 3D for years. I tried it out myself over 4 years ago. But the technology wasn't there yet as the resolution was too low. The only thing innovative Apple did with this was bring 4K+ resolution to the game.

Sure, sure, sure.

Let's see, desktops, laptops, music, phone, tablet, streaming, watches.

All those other companies, improving and innovating.

The Mac, MacBook, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch.

Never mind services such as iCloud and iTunes.

It's really amazing how Apple somehow is the world's most profitable company with all of those companies outsmarting them.

That said, it's your world, you know, so feel free to live in it as you see fit and buy those products.

The non-Apple products that deserve your hard-earned money instead of Apple, so you can own the products that you deserve.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Who here is going to buy the Apple VR thingie ?

Hopefully cgpublic but anyone else ?

Not me. One reality is enough for me.

I will consider it mate.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Having been invested in VR from day one (I bought first gen VR on launch day) I adore the tech. To me, this is about fitting all the top end bells and whistles into a high end headset, then as time goes by, filtering some of those features down to what resembles (or even is) a pair of glasses. Apple seem to believe VR will always be for the home only and AR/MR is for outside and the workplace.
They will get developers prepared with their OS and AR functions, then in time, work out the rest for mass consumption.

I don’t think Apple believes for one second, they will sell millions of these devices, it will absolutely be niche. However, they are building the foundation for a touch and vision interface that will, in my opinion, dominate by early next decade.

As mentioned, there are many questions. How does it pipe audio to an external source, how does more then one person watch, will they charge extra for a larger screen film experience (the display can be altered to suit the experience), what about audio quality on the headset, what about safety issues (listening to speakers near one’s ears for long periods of time).

Just my opinion mate, I totally agree about the price, but it’s just a starting point and more for enthusiasts and developers at this stage.

I'm a VR fan as well and own an Oculus Rift S. The technology Apple showed off today is impressive IF it lives up to the marketing hype. But the price they're charging is absurd and the only reason they're not being called out on it is because it's Apple, the kings of price gouging. Although Nvidia is starting to give them a run for their money.

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by bhampton

If you can't hear the difference then that's fine but I can and I know what is better for me.

You can say whatever you want, but unless you are matching the image and sound to the source in a blind setting, it's worthless to me.

As someone who has conducted hundreds of studies with consumers to understand behavior as it relates to products and services, what you are describing is a biased response.

It's why these circular conversations about disc vs. streaming are worthless.

Charts? Bit-rates? You've got to be kidding me.

Find a million people, ask them to blind ID which the side-by-side image is superior, a 4K HDR stream delivered from a hard wired GigE connection or a SDR Blu-ray, from a distance of 8 ft.

Trust me you're not going to like their answers.

For those who select the Blu-ray, most likely a minority, tell them the image they didn't select is available for $20 a month, along with thousands of other movies and TV programming, and the other, the one they selected, is available at $20 for a single film, plus the cost of a player, beginning at $100, with the caveat that the disc can become damaged or lost, or the player may not properly play the movie.

And you and others can't understand why mass market physical media sales have collapsed.

The bottom line here is simply no one cares which one you believe is better, what you like or what you do.

The millions upon millions have already spoken.

And when they demo Vision Pro, there will be no going back.

That's how the future works.

[bhampton]

Ok
Good luck

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cgpublic

Better in what way? I ask because Atmos is really dependent on your set-up.

I would argue that object-oriented sound technology, e.g., Atmos, is superior in the home via a headset than via a soundbar, which is how most consumers listen to Atmos at present.

There are simply too many variables in a non-dedicated room using speakers, up firing or height, for Atmos to deliver a consistent experience.

Adding to that one really needs to correctly employ room correction and or hire a professional to get it right.

The bottom line here is Vision Pro will deliver a home entertainment experience unlike, as opposed to 'better' however you may define it, than present home theater setups and certainly represents a unique path forward.

For example, Vision Pro features a pair of custom micro‑OLED displays deliver more pixels than a 4K TV to each eye — for stunning clarity.

Practically non-existent light diffusion as the image, in 8K, is right in your eyes.

That's right. 8K.

This changes everything, never mind home entertainment, but filmmaking as well.

Today I saw the future.

I can't wait.

As much as this excites me, there are two things to consider. First, lens maybe 4K to each eye but that does NOT mean they match the quality of a high end 4K tv. Magnification has to be taken into consideration. There is some inherent loss of quality in that, will it look super sharp? Sure, will it look as sharp as a 4K tv, not quite. That will be reserved for 8K to each eye. Only then will the screen door effect and magnification become a non issue.

Second, it doesn’t have a prayer of becoming mainstream (even in later versions) unless it fixes the restrictions it currently has. It’s not recommended for people who suffer migraines, who have anxiety conditions, ADHD, regular inner ear infections, epilepsy, past brain trauma, pacemakers, history of seizures, blackouts, or suffer vertigo.

Oh, and motion sickness! That’s quite a large number of people. Heck it was the biggest complaint of gen 1 of VR.
A tv set or projector is more suited to that group of people.

[bhampton]

For $3500….

https://www.cultofmac.com/819325/for...eadset-better/